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A Rookie Learns to PvP - An Educational Adventure

Author
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-11-17 13:37:26 UTC
Entry #2 - Saturday 17/11/2012

Well that sucked. Sunk by module timing.

Despite the roiling overpopulation of PvPers that Placid is supposed to have, I had to hoof it all the way to Milo Caman's home system, Gare, to actually find someone I could fight, and in the end, it turned out to be Milo Caman himself. I decided to take everyone's advice - if I was going to spend 10m on a frigate, it should be T2-fit and ready for any solo frigate eventuality.

It wasn't. Or rather, the ship was, but I wasn't, not quite.

Milo undocked in a Taranis, which I wasn't certain about - there was no way in hell I'd outpace him if he switched on his MWD, but at the same time I remembered that this was a frigate fight. If he was fitting rails, he'd be running down to the wire on fitting resources and would be doing less DPS, and if he was fitting blasters, he'd need to be pretty close to me to land a decent hit. I immediately burned towards him and hit my scram, which shut down his MWD, forcing him to redock. We re-engaged slightly off station a couple of minutes later, and he popped my drone, so I popped his drones. I didn't do it as fast as I should have though, because I had to add them to overview to get them targetted, which ate up precious time and armour-rep cap.

At this point, he had to close to range if he wanted to break my tank. I started burning towards him and cycling my reppers. My scram stopped him from moving fast enough to avoid my gun damage, but I wasn't dealing damage consistently or fast enough to get rid of him despite the fact that he had no tank, and he was still doing enough damage to seriously worry my tank. I didn't think it would be a problem though, as long as my reppers kept cycling.

The problem was I wasn't quick enough off the draw re-activating my boosters and reps when they went off cycle, so I started getting structure bleed. A few seconds longer and he'd have burnt out his web and I'd have been able to get in closer, but the structure bleed got too much and even though my reppers were still working right up until I saw the insurance notification appear, that was the end of that.

I'm a little upset, because I know that for a start I should have cycled my Null ammo into my blasters before I engaged a Taranis, and because if I'd been more confident with overheating things (in that I didn't overheat anything this fight, either) this probably wouldn't have happened and I'd be writing a much happier post-mortem - admittedly, it would be about killing a ship that was poorly-suited to fighting me, but eh.

I also forgot to hit record, so you won't be seeing this fight in my next video update.

Eh, you live and learn.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Antares 04
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-11-17 16:50:14 UTC
Accidents happen, ships are cheap, experience is not.

Keep going. Blink
Othran
Route One
#23 - 2012-11-17 17:44:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
Overheat the armour reppers immediately - they should last the duration of the frigate fight like that with thermodynamics 4.

Put guns and scram on overheat at the start of the fight (before the fight ideally) and turn the overheat on guns off after 30 seconds or so - the scram overheat can be dropped once he's in range. If you're going to die then overheat everything - melt or die Lol

Fit a nos if at all possible. Edit - if you're flying a minnie ship then consider using a neut rather than nos, with your SP that'll work on other frigates but the nos is more useful for engaging cruisers.

If you don't prepare for a fight that's likely to be done and dusted in 30-45 seconds then you'll always be at a disadvantage. That means you have an overview tab to kill drones when you're fighting a ranis for example Blink
Kn1v3s 999
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-11-17 21:25:20 UTC
Quote:
and the most I know of combat tactics is "orbit, shoot, smack in local if I die."


pretty much this.
Antares 04
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-12-04 01:51:08 UTC
Page 3 is not acceptable.

Any updates on this?

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#26 - 2012-12-04 08:35:19 UTC
Suggestion

Incursus + scram/web/AB + Rails = win

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-12-04 16:29:42 UTC
Entry #3 - 04/12/2012

SUCCESS!

Alright, so I'm probably feeling a little better about myself than a guy who's gotten his first PvP kill in nearly two years should be feeling, but... yes! Third time's the charm!

My usual roaming ground in Intaki was bearing no fruit, so I decided to take a trip to Black Rise. Because I don't like the Caldari militia very much anyway, I figured I'd feel less bad if I had to go pirate to get a fight. In the end, though, that turned out not to be neccessary. After a few lonely uninhabited systems, I finally happened upon a system with a small plex being run, inhabited by a single Caldari militia pilot - a Mr. e goldstein of the Valhollr corporation. He had a negative security status, but not one low enough to make him flashy-red. I developed a quick hunch - "he's (sensibly) paranoid, and he shoots first when neutrals enter his plex."

D-scan told me Incursus. Risky proposition, if he was fit like I was, but I hadn't flown all the way out here to wuss out at the last minute. I loaded Void. I hit the gate and activated.

Landed about 30km off of him, burned towards him. Yellow-box. Red-box. Hunch confirmed.

At this point, I admit I panicked a bit and didn't think about the order of my module activations. I hit him with my 2-scram, he hit me with a scram and a web, but I hit my armour reppers before I'd even started taking serious shield damage. I only remembered to start chugging cap boosters when my cap was nearly dry, and my drone didn't come out until I was in half armour. I fully expected to die another embarassing death.

Then something weird happened - his armour kept going down, while mine started going up again. Then abruptly enough, he died. I was a little confused, but not too confused to pop "gf" in local, scoop what little loot remained (had to dump some navy boosters over the side but oh well) and dock up.

Looking over the killmail, he was only single-repped, and only using CalNav Antimatter. I think if we'd been in equally-matched ships, and he'd had a calmer head than me, he'd easily have won. What I really need to work on is staying calm and rational in a combat situation so I'm not just flipping out and hitting every module.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Morgan Torry
Arma Purgatorium
#28 - 2012-12-04 16:51:24 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Entry #3 - 04/12/2012

SUCCESS!

Alright, so I'm probably feeling a little better about myself than a guy who's gotten his first PvP kill in nearly two years should be feeling, but... yes! Third time's the charm!

My usual roaming ground in Intaki was bearing no fruit, so I decided to take a trip to Black Rise. Because I don't like the Caldari militia very much anyway, I figured I'd feel less bad if I had to go pirate to get a fight. In the end, though, that turned out not to be neccessary. After a few lonely uninhabited systems, I finally happened upon a system with a small plex being run, inhabited by a single Caldari militia pilot - a Mr. e goldstein of the Valhollr corporation. He had a negative security status, but not one low enough to make him flashy-red. I developed a quick hunch - "he's (sensibly) paranoid, and he shoots first when neutrals enter his plex."

D-scan told me Incursus. Risky proposition, if he was fit like I was, but I hadn't flown all the way out here to wuss out at the last minute. I loaded Void. I hit the gate and activated.

Landed about 30km off of him, burned towards him. Yellow-box. Red-box. Hunch confirmed.

At this point, I admit I panicked a bit and didn't think about the order of my module activations. I hit him with my 2-scram, he hit me with a scram and a web, but I hit my armour reppers before I'd even started taking serious shield damage. I only remembered to start chugging cap boosters when my cap was nearly dry, and my drone didn't come out until I was in half armour. I fully expected to die another embarassing death.

Then something weird happened - his armour kept going down, while mine started going up again. Then abruptly enough, he died. I was a little confused, but not too confused to pop "gf" in local, scoop what little loot remained (had to dump some navy boosters over the side but oh well) and dock up.

Looking over the killmail, he was only single-repped, and only using CalNav Antimatter. I think if we'd been in equally-matched ships, and he'd had a calmer head than me, he'd easily have won. What I really need to work on is staying calm and rational in a combat situation so I'm not just flipping out and hitting every module.


Awesome work, and congrats. Some words of advise:
Right when the box turned red, launch the drone and sick 'em. It's not much but it helps negate some of his eventual rep...or starts being those shields so the action will begin for real. Don't activate the armor repper until you're about the lose shields...it takes some time to guess the timing and it's all based on incoming damage, but you could save yourself a booster easily by practicing this. Yeah, it's just one booster, but if you're like me you only fill the needed boosters to last a typical fight...and sometimes you'll run dry for a few seconds before the fight ends.

I eagerly await the video Big smile

Arma Purgatorium - What is Podded May Never Die

Rezig Huruta
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2012-12-04 16:58:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Rezig Huruta
Congrats on the win.

Fights aren't just fought with ships, but with your mind too. Even though they're space pixels, people get nervous and make lots of mistakes.

Calm minds win fights.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-12-04 17:25:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Andreus Ixiris
Oh, I forgot to mention, but he also had a bounty on him. I got 1.1m of it from killing him (not much obviously, but it's better than the vast majority of battleship rats Big smile). Not only that, but I found a bug in the bounty system!

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Zenethalos
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-12-06 02:51:11 UTC
You sir are a good man and an inspiration. After amassing 60m SP I have never experienced the rush of solo PvP intentionally until now.

It took almost 1.5 hours to find the fight, my rifter vs a retribution. I knew it would not end well but I learnt a bit.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-12-07 20:27:04 UTC
Entry #4 - Friday 7/12/2012

I won another fight! This time felt even more satisfying - a fight against an opponent I've wanted to pop for a while, and one that I could much more easily have lost.

My normal roam around Placid ended in Intaki, and I saw nothing. When I went to leave Intaki, a flashy-red Punisher from Anshar Incorporated - that's Milo Caman's corporation - landed on the gate just as I jumped out. Anshar are Serpentis bastards in character but generally good guys IRL, so I thought the prospect of a goodfight was pretty high. I jumped back in and began looking for it

I admit I was a little timid about engaging at first, because I noticed there was a Griffin and Corax on D-scan (and on grid at the station we were hanging around at) for a while, but the pilot of the Punisher, Jev North, kindly opened up a novice FW plex in the system, which meant that the only backup she'd possibly be able to bring in would be the Griffin, and given that I was fairly certain she'd be just as much after a goodfight as I was, I figured she might not bring it. I eventually warped in just before she did, popped my drone and got ready.

Don't let the frigate size fool you - Punishers are tough SoBs. Getting through even the shield on that thing was hard enough because I was using Void, and Jev was smart - she was keeping range. I realised that my Hobgoblin II was doing most of the damage and took the chance of switching out to Null to get more consistent DPS. Then I hit armour, and the damage just... stopped. The armour tank on that thing amazed me, but as I had assumed, it was purely passive - it wasn't being restored. Meanwhile, every time her lasers hit me I'd lose 2/3rds of my armour, and a double helping of cap boosters plus reload time only just gave me enough cap to last until the next cycle. I tell you, I was worried.

Then suddenly she stopped being able to maintain range, I started getting in close and the damage went up. It wasn't a quick thing, but her armour just went down and down while mine stayed maxed. I had to chug cap boosters like candy to keep myself from capping out, but the DPS remained consistent and she went into structure. At six cap boosters to go, she popped. I dropped "good fight" in local, scooped the loot and ran to my home station.

Conversation with Jev afterwards revealed that she burnt out her AB trying to keep range, and after that she couldn't keep up. She was banking on me running out of cap boosters before she ran out of hitpoints, which I admit was dangerously close to happening given that I hadn't restocked since my fight with the Incursus a couple of days ago.

I'm going to give it to Jev that she was most certainly the more skilled pilot in this engagement, and she fought really well. I won primarily on account of the ludicrous staying power this Incursus fit has. I did get a bit better with my module timing this time, though, and kept calm - didn't hit my armour reps until my shield actually depleted, and had the presence of mind to switch to Null after I realised that Void wasn't getting me anywhere fast.

Props to Jev for giving a really good, edge-of-your-seat fight, and props to the whole of Anshar for giving me helpful advice in local afterwards.

And trying to sell me drugs:

Milo Caman > You considered using Std. Exile to compliment the performance of your Incursus Andreus?
Andreus Ixiris > Is this a sales pitch?
Thaddeus Malukker > Maybe.
DeadRow > Smooth, Milo, Smooth.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-12-09 15:19:14 UTC
Entry #5 - Sunday 9/12/2012

HURR I'M DUMB.

I guess drawing a fight without killing or losing is better than losing a ship but I really should have won that fight easily and I feel stupid for not pulling it off. Milo and I decided to have a fight and record it, both for the purposes of this thread and for the "Capture a Day of EVE" thing that CCP has going. Both of us will be submitting our recordings to CCP Archivist, but here follows the log of the fight.

We decided to engage at Intaki II, because it's a magma planet and looks awesome, so it was a cool place to fight. He turned up in a Breacher, I turned up in my standard Incursus fit - so he was at a slight advantage because he designed the fit, and knew precisely how it worked. Right from the battle's outset, I was confronted with a very serious problem - range. He was easily able to maintain a minimum of 15km from me at all times, so doing any damage whatsoever became problematic. We both took down each others' drones - he lost two Warrior IIs, I only lost a single Hobgoblin II, so I guess I can count myself the economic victor in this engagement, maybe?

Anyway, he kept popping light missiles at me, taking me into 40% armour, but my rep cycle could easily handle that, and so we just traded blows for a little bit, him always eating my armour and me doing no damage but repping everything he threw at me with no real challenge. I tried overheating my AB and got in a little closer, but he quickly put distance between me again.

Now at several points I had been in range to scram him. Any intelligent person would simply have scrammed him and torn his ship in two.

I am apparently not very intelligent.

Fortunately for me, however, maintaing a MWD, target painter and long-point on a Breacher for any length of time is completely untennable and so once I noticed that he'd stopped pointing me, I simply aligned and warped away, feeling a little bit ridiculous, but glad at least that I hadn't lost a ship.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Jev North
Doomheim
#34 - 2012-12-09 23:38:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jev North
I went in knowing I'd be very likely to lose -- the Punisher is a neat ship, but in the configuration it was in, I simply wouldn't be able to overwhelm or outlast the tank on a dualrep Incursus, which I suspected you were flying. I've been taking very unlikely odds lately, just to see how far I can get. Bad habit, I know. Makes for interesting fights though.

Your description is just about spot-on. I knew I'd be toast as soon as I'd get into blaster optimal range, so the idea was to keep you on the very edge of scram range and see if I could last long enough for you to either slip up on managing your tank, or run out of cap boosters. Unfortunately I found I couldn't keep range for long without overheating the AB.

I could have disengaged at several points, and probably should have, but that wouldn't have made for a good story, would it? So, for 3:20 actual time and seemingly forever subjective time, I traded heat damage and armor buffer for range, and ended up flaming out.

Slightly frustrating, but good scram kiting and heat management practice, at least.

General advice - I find Void to be very situational. Up close against small targets, you might actually be better off with Antimatter; on the whole, Null will give you adequate DPS and far greater range flexibility, which is not a luxury when you only have a scram for tackle.

Even though our love is cruel; even though our stars are crossed.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-01-08 00:21:39 UTC
Hey guys, sorry I haven't been updating this recently. Things have been very hectic and I haven't had time to practice PvP very much. An old friend of mine came back from a long haitus and was like "let's do something and make a ton of money!" so I was like "wormholes?" and he was like "OK." So now we're in a wormhole with some friends, and we've been spending so much time scanning and making money that I haven't really had time to practice fighting anything other than Sleepers.

I will keep this journal updated if and when we run into someone nasty.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-01-08 06:02:17 UTC
Just a thought on this...

PvP in EVE is far less about "me, myself and I vs all comers". It's about working in a team and learning how to work with them. Interdependence on roles, tasks and functions of a unit.

If you really want to learn how to do it, pick a role for a group and focus on that. The better you are at a given role, the better you will perform.

With respect to "diversification" - try and focus but be ready and able to shift. Simply work 1 until you are comfortable at it then pick another one for a bit. There is cross functionality involved (such as a recon ship) but learn 1 at a time -- *IN A GANG*.

Soloing happens but you'll find that trying to solo is a hell of a lot more frustrating than rewarding. At least while you are messing around in a gang, you can chat with the others there as you look/wait for targets to show.
Iogrim
Matterhorn.
#37 - 2013-01-08 07:54:32 UTC
Mocam wrote:
Just a thought on this...

PvP in EVE is far less about "me, myself and I vs all comers". It's about working in a team and learning how to work with them. Interdependence on roles, tasks and functions of a unit.

If you really want to learn how to do it, pick a role for a group and focus on that. The better you are at a given role, the better you will perform.

With respect to "diversification" - try and focus but be ready and able to shift. Simply work 1 until you are comfortable at it then pick another one for a bit. There is cross functionality involved (such as a recon ship) but learn 1 at a time -- *IN A GANG*.

Soloing happens but you'll find that trying to solo is a hell of a lot more frustrating than rewarding. At least while you are messing around in a gang, you can chat with the others there as you look/wait for targets to show.


That is simply wrong. If YOU are too afraid to do solo pvp, at least don't discourage others.

Solo PVP is perfectly fine and you definitely don't need to listen to people who only fly when have at least 10 blackbirds in a gang.
Thomas Gore
Blackfyre Enterprise
#38 - 2013-01-08 10:41:49 UTC
Much kudos to OP for taking the time to find good solo fights and gaining valuable experience. I tried that too, but it was too much time searching and too little time fighting for my taste. As a result, I will always suck at 1v1 PvP and that isn't likely to change, ever.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#39 - 2013-01-08 12:50:30 UTC
Mocam wrote:

Soloing happens but you'll find that trying to solo is a hell of a lot more frustrating than rewarding. At least while you are messing around in a gang, you can chat with the others there as you look/wait for targets to show.


MEH

Solo pvp is quite fun, Its just not something that can sustain you forever.. If you only solo you generally burn out quickly.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Kikusama
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2013-01-08 12:52:50 UTC
Don't forget to overheat, overheat, overheat. Guns, tackle, reppers. Especially in a frigate vs frigate brawl that will not take long, it's really effective.

A guide can be found here and another one here.

Guns make the news. Science doesn't.

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