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Newer Player Looking for Small-Ship PvP Advice
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Iogrim
Matterhorn.
#21 - 2013-01-07 12:50:59 UTC
IMHO Gallente has the best selection frigates right now. Both Incursus and Atron are great. Minmatar is meh, Rifter especially (all hype about it is outdated).

If Amarr - Executioner is really good, not sure about others. I like kiting fits with no tank, tracking disruptor and long range lasers.

While FW is definitely great, remember that to join you either need to leave your corp and join NPC corp, or enlist whole corp - which might not be an option if some of your corpmates are only interested in living peacefully in high-sec.

Failheap Challenge forum (google) is quite ok for ship fits, at least better than Battleclinic.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#22 - 2013-01-07 15:54:13 UTC
Iogrim wrote:
IMHO Gallente has the best selection frigates right now. Both Incursus and Atron are great. Minmatar is meh, Rifter especially (all hype about it is outdated).

If Amarr - Executioner is really good, not sure about others. I like kiting fits with no tank, tracking disruptor and long range lasers.

While FW is definitely great, remember that to join you either need to leave your corp and join NPC corp, or enlist whole corp - which might not be an option if some of your corpmates are only interested in living peacefully in high-sec.

Failheap Challenge forum (google) is quite ok for ship fits, at least better than Battleclinic.



Kiting frigs with no tank die to kiting frigs with a tank while only being marginally better at kiting..

Just sayin..

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

SeaSaw
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-01-07 15:54:59 UTC
Iogrim wrote:
IMHO Gallente has the best selection frigates right now. Both Incursus and Atron are great. Minmatar is meh, Rifter especially (all hype about it is outdated).

If Amarr - Executioner is really good, not sure about others. I like kiting fits with no tank, tracking disruptor and long range lasers.

While FW is definitely great, remember that to join you either need to leave your corp and join NPC corp, or enlist whole corp - which might not be an option if some of your corpmates are only interested in living peacefully in high-sec.

Failheap Challenge forum (google) is quite ok for ship fits, at least better than Battleclinic.


Good Logrim;

You picked the easiest ships to jam--Executioner-6, Atron-7, Incursus-9 (and even the rifter at 8). With a standard full spectrum jammer and most the skills you get a jammer at 2.88. So the executioner is jammed half the time and even the incursus is jammed 33% of the time. I am sure a new player is going to find this frustrating.

your humble servent
SeaSaw
Iogrim
Matterhorn.
#24 - 2013-01-07 16:02:04 UTC
SeaSaw wrote:

Good Logrim;

You picked the easiest ships to jam--Executioner-6, Atron-7, Incursus-9 (and even the rifter at 8). With a standard full spectrum jammer and most the skills you get a jammer at 2.88. So the executioner is jammed half the time and even the incursus is jammed 33% of the time. I am sure a new player is going to find this frustrating.

your humble servent
SeaSaw


Good SeaSaw,

you spelled my name wrong.

Regarding jams - ECM is not allowed in RvB. In FW, during my 1.5month stay there I only once encountered solo ship with ECM. In fleets, neither 6 nor 8 sensor strength won't protect you. So your point doesn't make much sense.


Garviel Tarrant wrote:

Kiting frigs with no tank die to kiting frigs with a tank while only being marginally better at kiting..
Just sayin..


There is no single perfect fit. My fits were designed for the job and worked pretty well for me. I am not insisting the OP or anyone else should use them.
Gah'Matar
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#25 - 2013-01-07 19:33:43 UTC
Join your corp to FW. I suggest Amarr. Proceed to fly a lot of frigs and die a lot. It won't wreck your sec status if you find out you don't like it... When you're a newbie and only have 1 account, it's easier to be high-sec legal for reshipping purpose.

That's what I'd do.
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#26 - 2013-01-07 21:37:28 UTC
Amarr frigs are nice.

I like both long range kitey and scram kitey fits for the executioner. The long range tends to die if someone farts in its direction though...but in making it long range you pretty much lose any tank apart from speed/range.

Punisher is a great frig IMO (love it) it does have a major droawback in the lack of mids for range control in a brawl. But it can be fit in very different ways. I pretty much fit mine with MWD to get into fights quicker as it's a slow brick. Once in fight you can't hold a competant pilot there but you can easily hit anything within scram range and have an excellent tank. I sometimes fit mine lite a kiteing retribution and laugh when a kitey frig tries to pull range!!

Tormentor is a versitile little boat with decent laser damage + drones + flexible slot layout giving it a load of different fits

The crucifier is a nice frigate gang support ship that can put out some decent damage as well.

And the navy slicer is a lovely high damage kiting frig or a decent brawler if you really want to confuse people!


Over all the amarr have a good line up of frigates. But tbh so do all the races.

I fly Amarr and minnie allough I am equally skilled in all the races. I just like them more than other vOv

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Eternal Montage
Myriad Sequence
#27 - 2013-01-08 20:55:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternal Montage
A lot of good advice in here. Just don't listen to anyone that tells you a Rifter is crap. The Rifter used to be top dog in the world of t1 frigates but now it's pretty much in line with all of the other frigates, so with that you can be competitive in one. Contrary to what one guy said, I think you should always use t2 guns, tank and always use rigs. Not doing so is simply accepting that you will lose every fight.

One thing I suggest, is if you're going to fly alone, fly a really fast kiting frigate. A corpmate of mine flies an arty wolf that goes about 4km/s and does 150ish dps out to 30 km or something like that. He uses it to rip apart frigates that wander into our pocket with much success. He actually inspired me to make a kiting Comet which actually worked out pretty well. I thought the ship was worthless until I made this kiting fit I've been using and I've had some good times with it, I even killed a tornado the other day... Granted the comet is a bit expensive around 35 mil to fit out. You might be able to kite fit a Rifter, just don't quote me on that.

When I started pvping I started in an Ishkur, BEFORE they buffed it and I got my ass kicked regularly. Why? Because it's a brawler that requires a lot of multitasking and blows up fast if you do something wrong. Moral of the story is if you are soloing, you should fly a kiter unless if you're extremely adept in the art of separation. You will likely be outnumbered most of the time, flying a kite allows you to engage or at least harass enemy gangs without committing to a fight. Trust me on this, I solo a lot, and kiting is better in solo unless if you have some sort of ace up your sleeve be it neuts, web/scram, tracking disruptor or something.

Main points:

1. Rifter is a fine ship
2. Use t2 modules
3. Kite when alone

Edit: Just tried to make a kiting Rifter in eft and it's not really possible... Train a wolf?
Angron Vail
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2013-01-08 22:53:04 UTC
Eternal Montage wrote:


Edit: Just tried to make a kiting Rifter in eft and it's not really possible... Train a wolf?



need 200 mm ac II"s, rocket launcher II

experimental AB1, langaur drive disruptor (web), J5b prototype warp sram

DCUII, Armor rep II, 200mm rolled tungsten plates

1 burst airator
2 ambit extenders

throws fusion at 7k and barrage at 12, need good fit skills, and you kite within scram range, can replace web with a td, it works but like the web better. there is an arty one but don't know it off the top of my head, and am at work so no EFT

http://thehoodedhorror.blogspot.com/
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#29 - 2013-01-09 08:49:28 UTC
Siekman Beldrulf wrote:
Hi again Everyone!

Sorry to keep giving everyone notifications. I'm really considering flying amarr ships but am unsure of which one to pick first. I'm probably going to just use an amarr frigate. Is the executioner any good? Once I have a ship fit and ready to go I'll head out for faction warfare.

Thanks again for any help you can give!

Siekman


Do a google search for the punisher plan. It's a great blog, with tons of wonderful advice on getting started in frigate pvp. Also, there's a lot of thought about how to fit frigates to your playing style.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#30 - 2013-01-09 10:00:09 UTC
Angron Vail wrote:
Eternal Montage wrote:


Edit: Just tried to make a kiting Rifter in eft and it's not really possible... Train a wolf?



need 200 mm ac II"s, rocket launcher II

experimental AB1, langaur drive disruptor (web), J5b prototype warp sram

DCUII, Armor rep II, 200mm rolled tungsten plates

1 burst airator
2 ambit extenders

throws fusion at 7k and barrage at 12, need good fit skills, and you kite within scram range, can replace web with a td, it works but like the web better. there is an arty one but don't know it off the top of my head, and am at work so no EFT



And will get killed by every other scram kiter in the game.. including the slasher and breachers.. the ships you should be flying.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Iogrim
Matterhorn.
#31 - 2013-01-09 10:11:19 UTC
Eternal Montage wrote:
Just don't listen to anyone that tells you a Rifter is crap. The Rifter used to be top dog in the world of t1 frigates but now it's pretty much in line with all of the other frigates, so with that you can be competitive in one.


Some people still live in the past.

It's not that other hulls were buffed to Rifter level; in fact they are much much better than Rifter. At any given role, there is a fit that performs much better. While the same can't be said for Atron/Incursus/Executioner/Merlin/Conro/Breacher/Slasher/etc.
Eternal Montage
Myriad Sequence
#32 - 2013-01-09 14:29:36 UTC
Angron Vail wrote:
Eternal Montage wrote:


Edit: Just tried to make a kiting Rifter in eft and it's not really possible... Train a wolf?



need 200 mm ac II"s, rocket launcher II

experimental AB1, langaur drive disruptor (web), J5b prototype warp sram

DCUII, Armor rep II, 200mm rolled tungsten plates

1 burst airator
2 ambit extenders

throws fusion at 7k and barrage at 12, need good fit skills, and you kite within scram range, can replace web with a td, it works but like the web better. there is an arty one but don't know it off the top of my head, and am at work so no EFT


Ewww afterburner
Eternal Montage
Myriad Sequence
#33 - 2013-01-09 14:33:45 UTC
Iogrim wrote:
Eternal Montage wrote:
Just don't listen to anyone that tells you a Rifter is crap. The Rifter used to be top dog in the world of t1 frigates but now it's pretty much in line with all of the other frigates, so with that you can be competitive in one.


Some people still live in the past.

It's not that other hulls were buffed to Rifter level; in fact they are much much better than Rifter. At any given role, there is a fit that performs much better. While the same can't be said for Atron/Incursus/Executioner/Merlin/Conro/Breacher/Slasher/etc.


I just played around with the Rifter in eft. Looks fine to me. Looks to be in line as I said. Perhaps you're fitting it wrong? I haven't flown one post expansion, perhaps it comes down to some organic difference. I'll have to give it a try...

sorry bout the double post
Iogrim
Matterhorn.
#34 - 2013-01-09 14:50:19 UTC
Eternal Montage wrote:
I just played around with the Rifter in eft. Looks fine to me. Looks to be in line as I said. Perhaps you're fitting it wrong? I haven't flown one post expansion, perhaps it comes down to some organic difference. I'll have to give it a try...

sorry bout the double post


Then play around with other hulls, and you will find most of other hulls will eat Rifter for breakfast.

As I already wrote before, Rifter hasn't changed much from previous years. The problem is that all the other hulls have been buffed MASSIVELY. To the extent that they even now overshadow T2 frigates, not only poor Rifter. Yet you stubbornly keep blabbing same old nonsense.
Eternal Montage
Myriad Sequence
#35 - 2013-01-09 15:03:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternal Montage
Iogrim wrote:
Eternal Montage wrote:
I just played around with the Rifter in eft. Looks fine to me. Looks to be in line as I said. Perhaps you're fitting it wrong? I haven't flown one post expansion, perhaps it comes down to some organic difference. I'll have to give it a try...

sorry bout the double post


Then play around with other hulls, and you will find most of other hulls will eat Rifter for breakfast.

As I already wrote before, Rifter hasn't changed much from previous years. The problem is that all the other hulls have been buffed MASSIVELY. To the extent that they even now overshadow T2 frigates, not only poor Rifter. Yet you stubbornly keep blabbing same old nonsense.


That is untrue. I'm not an old school Rifter fan boy, and I'm not talking nonsense, I really do believe it is IN LINE with other t1 frigates. I'm not sitting here saying the Rifter is the best ship ever, I'm just saying it's not terrible. You don't need to be defensive, you sound like one of those people that hated Rifters and Rifter fan boys pre-expansion, and now you're getting off on it being mediocre. Honestly It could use a bit of a buff because it should be slightly better than a Breacher IMO. Just don't take an extreme stance and then claim that I'm the one being extreme, that's not really fair. Trying to walk the middle path here; like the Buddha. Don't put me in a box man!

Edit: You're definitely right about one thing though, the Breacher looks a little bit better at the moment.
Iogrim
Matterhorn.
#36 - 2013-01-09 15:12:23 UTC
Eternal Montage wrote:

That is untrue. I'm not an old school Rifter fan boy, and I'm not talking nonsense, I really do believe it is IN LINE with other t1 frigates. I'm not sitting here saying the Rifter is the best ship ever, I'm just saying it's not terrible. You don't need to be defensive, you sound like one of those people that hated Rifters and Rifter fan boys pre-expansion, and now you're getting off on it being mediocre. Honestly It could use a bit of a buff because it should be slightly better than a Breacher IMO. Just don't take an extreme stance and then claim that I'm the one being extreme, that's not really fair. Trying to walk the middle path here; like the Buddha. Don't put me in a box man!


Nothing personal to Rifters. I am not saying it's terrible in a way all T1 frigs were terrible before revamp; good pilot in a well-fitted Rifter will kill bad pilot in ****-fit Merlin.

But if you want a ship to fight in a specific role (brawler, MWD kite, AB kite, etc.), there is always a substitute to Rifter that does the role significantly better. Given same skill, Rifter will lose every time.

And that's why it's bad.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#37 - 2013-01-09 16:33:56 UTC
Eternal Montage wrote:
Iogrim wrote:
Eternal Montage wrote:
I just played around with the Rifter in eft. Looks fine to me. Looks to be in line as I said. Perhaps you're fitting it wrong? I haven't flown one post expansion, perhaps it comes down to some organic difference. I'll have to give it a try...

sorry bout the double post


Then play around with other hulls, and you will find most of other hulls will eat Rifter for breakfast.

As I already wrote before, Rifter hasn't changed much from previous years. The problem is that all the other hulls have been buffed MASSIVELY. To the extent that they even now overshadow T2 frigates, not only poor Rifter. Yet you stubbornly keep blabbing same old nonsense.


That is untrue. I'm not an old school Rifter fan boy, and I'm not talking nonsense, I really do believe it is IN LINE with other t1 frigates. I'm not sitting here saying the Rifter is the best ship ever, I'm just saying it's not terrible. You don't need to be defensive, you sound like one of those people that hated Rifters and Rifter fan boys pre-expansion, and now you're getting off on it being mediocre. Honestly It could use a bit of a buff because it should be slightly better than a Breacher IMO. Just don't take an extreme stance and then claim that I'm the one being extreme, that's not really fair. Trying to walk the middle path here; like the Buddha. Don't put me in a box man!

Edit: You're definitely right about one thing though, the Breacher looks a little bit better at the moment.



Its not SUPPOSED to be better than the breacher

And if you look at it in eft and think its in line with other t1 frigs then may i suggest you may not know what the hell you're looking for?

Its dps is crap, its tank is crap, its control is medicore.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Eternal Montage
Myriad Sequence
#38 - 2013-01-09 16:50:15 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Eternal Montage wrote:
Iogrim wrote:
Eternal Montage wrote:
I just played around with the Rifter in eft. Looks fine to me. Looks to be in line as I said. Perhaps you're fitting it wrong? I haven't flown one post expansion, perhaps it comes down to some organic difference. I'll have to give it a try...

sorry bout the double post


Then play around with other hulls, and you will find most of other hulls will eat Rifter for breakfast.

As I already wrote before, Rifter hasn't changed much from previous years. The problem is that all the other hulls have been buffed MASSIVELY. To the extent that they even now overshadow T2 frigates, not only poor Rifter. Yet you stubbornly keep blabbing same old nonsense.


That is untrue. I'm not an old school Rifter fan boy, and I'm not talking nonsense, I really do believe it is IN LINE with other t1 frigates. I'm not sitting here saying the Rifter is the best ship ever, I'm just saying it's not terrible. You don't need to be defensive, you sound like one of those people that hated Rifters and Rifter fan boys pre-expansion, and now you're getting off on it being mediocre. Honestly It could use a bit of a buff because it should be slightly better than a Breacher IMO. Just don't take an extreme stance and then claim that I'm the one being extreme, that's not really fair. Trying to walk the middle path here; like the Buddha. Don't put me in a box man!

Edit: You're definitely right about one thing though, the Breacher looks a little bit better at the moment.



Its not SUPPOSED to be better than the breacher

And if you look at it in eft and think its in line with other t1 frigs then may i suggest you may not know what the hell you're looking for?

Its dps is crap, its tank is crap, its control is medicore.


IMO stands for in my opinion. Who says we're looking at the same fit? /close thread/
Iogrim
Matterhorn.
#39 - 2013-01-09 16:56:18 UTC
Eternal Montage wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:

Its not SUPPOSED to be better than the breacher

And if you look at it in eft and think its in line with other t1 frigs then may i suggest you may not know what the hell you're looking for?

Its dps is crap, its tank is crap, its control is medicore.


IMO stands for in my opinion. Who says we're looking at the same fit? /close thread/


Doesn't matter what fit, and it's not matter of opinion, it's simply wrong.

Like in: "IMO camels live in Arctic" -> no they don't, you are moron if you think so.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#40 - 2013-01-09 17:12:22 UTC
I get this IMO thing a lot about the Rifter..

But how good a ship is just isn't about opinions..

in the end its ALL about the numbers and how you can use them..

Close range brawlers that are better than the rifter: Atron, Incursus, Merlin, Breacher, tormentor, Kestrel,
Scram kite brawlers that are better than the rifter: Incursus, Merlin, Breacher, Tormentor, Condor, Slasher, Kestrel, tormentor, Executioner.
MWD kiters that are better than the rifter, pretty much every single frig there is.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

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