Player Features and Ideas Discussion

That is because of who you are and your numbers, 234 in your corp and your PvP focus, so someone coming after you would require a bit more of an attitude:

But this:

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15734489

No matter how good you are and how much you setup for it they will still get you unawares at some point and kill the ratter in short order, I know that is not your corp, but it is your alliance. A covert fleet gets in and gets out fast, when too much comes in you just claok or warp out, I have done it. But what you say is how to defend against a hot drop and good luck to you.

"practical to only gank PvE vessels with poor defensive capability" Exactly! They are there purely to try and disrupt industrial activity. Mining and production are as valid occupations in 0.0 as PvP. In a system where capital ships are being built a cloaked ship is a thorn in the side. It won't stop the production or the mining but it does complicate matters.

There is a balance issue here. A cloaked vessel can pose a very real threat and sit cloaked 23/7 at 0 risk to it self, the player does not need to be attentive or even present. The defenders have to be vigilant all the time as they have no idea when/if an attack will be coming. To redress the balance a "method" needs to be introduced that results in both party's needing to be attentive of the other less they are caught out.

Of course they want a way to fight back, also removing local will make them even more effecive hot dropping people, and all you will hear is people whining about a lack of targets in null and comments about how many people in HS. Go ahead CCP do as this person suggests, I am leaving null anyway and only going back in as a hunter, make it easy for me...

For just a moment, consider that local is removed.
You begin with not knowing if any targets are in system at all. Start scanning to find them.
You also have no idea what defensive pilots may be present, if any. More scanning.
That target has the time to detect you, if they make proper efforts. Spotting probes makes them risky to use for hunters.

What advantage does a hot drop give you?
First, keep in mind, that with no local you have no population spike to warn of fleet presence entering a system.
Second, you bottleneck the entry of your combat group in weapons range of a hostile ship. You HOPE it is fitted in a way that is not a trap for your group.
Third, you can't tell if a defense ambush is aligned to this target ship, ready and waiting to insta warp and pop you like a cheap zit. They will probably wait for your cyno to finish though, get the juicier targets.

Tactically speaking, you are better off cynoing in off grid, if not outside of system entirely. That way your group can warp to the target together, and not be half loading the system to discover your group is half into structure by a welcoming party's efforts.

Trimmed down for conciseness, the context is still present

The hunted exerting effort and risk.

Refresh my memory, exactly what risk?
Using local, the "hunted" is able to avoid absolutely ALL risk that could be associated with a cloaked vessel, much less one missing a cloak on it's fitting. (Like a regular PvP ship, non cloaking variety)
Stay aligned, see hostile appear on local, insta-warp.
I find it challenging to claim this behavior is handling any risk. By comparison, high sec is equally risky, if not more so from unexpected suicide gank potential.



Using billion ISK ships to take out ratters in null. It is something to consider that I doubt you enter any fight with such a ship that has any chance of losing.

Most players don't consider such ships as disposable, as per the expression "don't fly what you cannot afford to lose".

It also suggests you are fighting against poorly prepared fools, who failed to plan for you properly.

I guess that's what happens when you lower the bar with such easy intel. They don't expect effort is needed in other aspects either.... sad really.

Cloaking is fine.

Local is the issue. Perfect intel should come with a cost, or require investment.

I shall try to explain a few details that are usually glossed over crudely, but hold the truth.

AFK Cloaking: This is done in response to Local Chat flawlessly reporting pilot presence. It dumbs down the interaction between pilots by outright telling all parties who is present. Without this crutch, use of sensors, strategy, and cooperation would be needed to fill the void.
What does it achieve?
It creates a flaw in the usual flow of cause and effect for life in many systems. Often, a neutral or hostile pilot is seen entering, and activity is suspended until they leave. There is trivial risk, as standard procedure often involves being ready to get safe in the time frame provided by this instant alarm. Hostile pilots who refuse to leave are subsequently hunted down.
When the "AFK Cloaking" pilot enters, he disrupts this process, by not leaving. Further, since this intel tool persistently shows him present, the default response of suspending activity is perpetually pushed as chosen reaction.
This devalues the intel tool, as it is now being used against the native PvE pilots instead of helping them.
If local were removed, sensors strategy and cooperation would be placed as valuable means of protecting PvE income assets.
It would also be pointless to AFK cloak, as noone would be aware of your presence while you were passive.
It is widely anticipated that any change to local which stopped free cloaking awareness would also include a means to hunt cloaked ships.

Summary: That free intel tool favored by so many can be used by the hunters too.

Hot Dropping: Bridging is intended to bypass reinforced blockades and travel time. Here, it has been fine tuned to avoid advertising the presence of a fleet to the free intel tool as well by delaying the easily recognizable population spike till the last possible moment. The intention is to deny the warning local provides, although it still reports the presence of the cyno boat enough to be associated with AFK Cloaking instead.
Quite simply, while PvE pilots would never resume regular activities with a hostile fleet present, they are sometimes willing to gamble over whether a cloaked vessel represents that level of threat at a given time.

Sorry about the length, but the mindless repetition of "AFK Cloaking is bad mmkay" sounds foolish.

I find it funny that so many assume local to be completely balanced, but AFK Cloaking to be some insane broken thing.
They don't want to see a connection drawn between the two, or acknowledge that one is balancing the other.

Add to that, the flying assumption that removing anything from local would somehow be a stand-alone change.

In my opinion it is very probable, that DEVs intend a package of changes to replace the broken yet admittedly balanced system we have currently.

It would, but this is where the care bears show their hand.

They are not interested in making more effort. They want to be as AFK as they can possibly be while still watching local for warnings.
It makes juggling multiple accounts easier, and they get the higher reward aspects present outside of high security.

That's the crazy part, they are effectively using a play style that fits high sec, and threatening to leave for high security if it changes.

And people care, not understanding that these guys are not forming fleets, PvPing, or doing anything that is unique to operating beyond high security space.

Now, I am NOT referring to pilots using these tactics simply because the bar lowered, they won't leave, because they are willing to make the effort, and won't need to share the income with those not willing. They will think xmas showed up every time the servers come back up and these leaches aren't sucking up the ABC ores.