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How EVE Became Obsolete (And why CCP hasn’t noticed)

First post
Author
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#221 - 2013-01-07 13:04:20 UTC
Thomas Gore wrote:
Can you mention all the great PC titles you were playing before 1992? Yeah Street Rod 2 and LHX Attack Chopper were alright, but I think Windows 95 and DirectX is where PC gaming really started off. I did my fair share of freeing enough base memory to run Falcon 4.0, but would rather not go back there :)

EDIT: Ok I seem to be remembering wrong. Hell, Ultima V was out in 1988.

Oh how the time flies.
Indeed it does. Lol

Falcon 3.0 was in 1991; Sierra's heyday was '85–'90 or so; Origin had theirs at roughly the same time, or perhaps slightly later, with Ultima and Wing Commander (and Strike Commander, even though it hadn't finished loading until 1995 or so P). And of course, then there were all the classic text and graphical adventure games…

…in fact, I just realised I need to reinstall Thieves' Guild just because of that.
Karak Terrel
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER
#222 - 2013-01-07 13:09:21 UTC
Tippia wrote:

…in fact, I just realised I need to reinstall Thieves' Guild just because of that.


You sure you want to do that? Everytime I reinstalled some old game because "that was so awesome back then", the reality completely obliterated my good memories.
Thomas Gore
Blackfyre Enterprise
#223 - 2013-01-07 13:13:49 UTC
Karak Terrel wrote:
Tippia wrote:

…in fact, I just realised I need to reinstall Thieves' Guild just because of that.


You sure you want to do that? Everytime I reinstalled some old game because "that was so awesome back then", the reality completely obliterated my good memories.


That's always a danger yes, but there are still several games that will give any modern day popcorn game a run for their money. The Ultima Series (up to and including VII and Serpent Isle) is a good example, as is any RPG or adventure game that is not based on graphics or other technological gimmicks.
Kelian
Katasi Salvage
#224 - 2013-01-07 13:32:38 UTC
Thank you all... because of your responses to this yahoo I didnt have to type more than a thank you card. Lol
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#225 - 2013-01-07 13:35:47 UTC
Karak Terrel wrote:
Tippia wrote:

…in fact, I just realised I need to reinstall Thieves' Guild just because of that.


You sure you want to do that? Everytime I reinstalled some old game because "that was so awesome back then", the reality completely obliterated my good memories.

Weell… it was text and highres EGA graphics back in the day, and had wonderfully quirky humour as its main draw. That won't have changed. Also, the best manual/hintbook ever.
Usagi Toshiro
Null Tax Crew
#226 - 2013-01-07 13:51:03 UTC
While I agree that a large segment of the market is becoming mobile, desktops and laptops will still be around for a while. People on average keep computers for 3-5 years, the tech inclined upgrading them all the while.

I disagree on the market being dominated by Linux though. Windows (and iOS to a lesser extent) are much more user friendly. Linux is a great OS, no bones there, but think of all the less than computer illiterate sheep out there that can barely use a Windows machine without screwing it up. Now imagine them trying to use Linux... Roll

Trolls are like stray cats. If you feed them they multiply. Please do not  feed the trolls.

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#227 - 2013-01-07 14:02:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Usagi Toshiro wrote:
While I agree that a large segment of the market is becoming mobile, desktops and laptops will still be around for a while. People on average keep computers for 3-5 years, the tech inclined upgrading them all the while.

I disagree on the market being dominated by Linux though. Windows (and iOS to a lesser extent) are much more user friendly. Linux is a great OS, no bones there, but think of all the less than computer illiterate sheep out there that can barely use a Windows machine without screwing it up. Now imagine them trying to use Linux... Roll


Linux Mint 13 is an incredibly stable OS, very user friendly, and when you combine that with the superior filing system, better security, lack of maintenance requirements, free software, updates, and long term support.... I think we have a winner. I use it almost exclusively, and there are "no bones" among its other users that it is easier, and even simpler, than windows.

EDIT: The ONLY problem is the lack of compatibility with popular windows-based software like EVE online, and in THAT case, you have a point - it would only be the tech inclined who are willing to go through the WINE process to make it compatible.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Goran Konjich
Krompany
#228 - 2013-01-07 14:05:17 UTC
I will always say that my Commodore 128 from '86 was the best gaming machine ever. And it looks awesome. Still have it. And green monitor. And cassette drive :-)

I'm a diplomat. Sometimes i throw 425mm wide briefcases at enemy. Such is EVE.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#229 - 2013-01-07 14:10:37 UTC
Goran Konjich wrote:
I will always say that my Commodore 128 from '86 was the best gaming machine ever. And it looks awesome. Still have it. And green monitor. And cassette drive :-)


I still have drill tanks somewhere.
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#230 - 2013-01-07 14:12:33 UTC
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
CCP recently indulged in a bit of self-congratulation following widespread media coverage of their 450,000th paid EVE subscription. Mainstream news outlets, including Forbes, actually remarked on the game’s success despite its venerability and outdated subscription model. EVE is proving unexpected staying power, growing steadily while other MMOs such as WoW have struggled to retain monthly customers.

All this attention might suggest the future of EVE is rosy and bright, but consider:

- The future of traditional x86 and x64 PC architecture is increasingly vague. Laptops have been outselling desktop systems for years, but tablet sales are gaining exponentially. A whopping 122 million ARM-based tablets and smartphones sold in 2012.

- Within two years, ARM devices will account for more than half of all personal computer sales.

- 97% of those devices will employ touch as their primary input. A full 50% will support gesture input and 10% will natively display stereoscopic 3D.

- The PC gaming industry has little appetite for Windows 8, as evidenced by leaders such as Valve Software. Valve is currently backing an aggressive transition to Steam for Linux, with a repository of 40 games and counting already available to open-source users. Valve is also throwing support behind Oculus Rift, a revolutionary developing virtual reality system.

All this points to something CCP isn't admitting: their flagship game title could soon become too damn inconvenient to play if it remains bound for all time to traditional PCs.

For the moment, EVE’s subscribers are loyal and (on the whole) pleased with the status quo. CCP just completed their 18th successful expansion, filling EVE with upgrades and goodies ranging from simplified combat functions to baffling trading cards. Players are heavily invested in EVE, emotionally, financially, and otherwise.

But ARM and other mobile technologies are maturing fast, with multi-core processors, dedicated GPUs, and beautiful multi-touch displays claiming long-established PC territory, both in performance and sales. As our PCs age, we will replace them with touch-based multipurpose tablets, hybrid smartphones, and lord-knows-what other concoctions of techno-wizardry. Those who do choose a traditional PC may find Windows taking a backseat to Ubuntu and other platforms. The fact that these devices refuse to run EVE-Online will not deter us from choosing the device suited to our increasingly busy and mobile lives.

What’s troubling is that, to date, CCP has offered almost no interest beyond traditional PCs. They pulled official support for Linux in 2009, citing low usage. Fanfest attendees went wild last spring when CCP purportedly demonstrated EVE being tested on Android. But nearly a full year later, with no updates, no announcements, and no beta, we’re no longer convinced. It’s become clear CCP will never support many of the bleeding-edge technologies we most covet – mobile computing, open source operating systems, stereoscopic 3D, touch and gesture input, and virtual reality.

I predict a tipping point, perhaps one to two years in the future, where EVE fans, torn between a device that suits their needs and a device that runs EVE, will inevitably cancel their subscriptions and embrace a new era of personal computing. CCP will trumpet new expansions, drop all the tweaks and player content their little hearts desire, and even lower subscription prices, but the damage will be done.

CCP has time to pull it together, but it’s understandably harder and less interesting than designing new battlecruisers or tweaking mining yields. Bringing internet spaceships to a new generation of devices demands a complete interface overhaul, perhaps even a full-scale client rewrite. But in EVE’s greatest challenge lies also its greatest opportunity. Mobile and open-source gaming platforms are bringing accessibility and exposure to untouched masses. If CCP can’t get excited about retaining existing gamers, maybe the prospect of millions of potential new subscribers will whet their appetite for the job at hand.



You're entirely miss reading the data.

Yes tablet sales and smart phone sales are up but that's because they're relatively new and new markets have been told they need them.

My mother, father, sister even grandparents have tablets now and none of them have or would get a desktop pc at home. My sister has a laptop but all she used that for was facebook and booking holidays.

Saying that "gaming is moving to smart devices" is a misnoma too, with this huge boom in sales for these devices (to predominantly new markets) software developers have flooded in selling games to that demographic. It's not a demographic that on the whole wants hardcore games (would you sit on your phone for 5 hours straight playing derpaderpaonlinefps13?), it's a market that wants games it can dip in and out of.

You're looking at complicated numbers and coming up with simple answers and that's where you're going wrong.

The answer should be as simple to understand as possible but complex as it needs to be true.



p.s.

I hate touch screens because I hate finger prints on screens, when they can solve that, I'll think about a touch screen pc..... maybe.
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#231 - 2013-01-07 14:18:00 UTC
Usagi Toshiro wrote:
While I agree that a large segment of the market is becoming mobile


There's not enough data to say that.

Yes mobile device sales are up but who is buying these?
Is it desktop users who want a mobile device instead?
Is it new users who haven't had a PC until now?
Is it people who are just upgrading their phones because their contract was up?

Seeing a spike in sales of one type of device doesn't necessarily mean that people are moving from one hardware type to another.

You need a stack more data along with sources before you can call that tbh.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#232 - 2013-01-07 14:24:55 UTC
Far too much speculation and conjecture in the OP to even bother considering to take it seriously. CCP has done a good job so far of changing EVE to keep it current with new hardware and I don't see them not doing so in the future unless they choose to shut down EVE.

EVE has been rising in subscribers since it launched 10 years ago. It becomes more and more popular by the day. That doesn't mean too much in the MMO industry with only less than half a million subs but it does mean that the game is stable. More than can be said for most of the new MMO's coming out that fail within 6 months.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

Aodha Khan
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#233 - 2013-01-07 14:28:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Aodha Khan
There are far more PC users than tablets and real gamers dont use tablets to play games. That is the people CCP are aiming at and should continue to do so.

You cannot play a game like Eve on a touch device ffs!

OP has been reading too much junk press stories trying to follow on with Steve Jobs marketing bull..

Power is not something that is granted - it is something to be taken.

TharOkha
0asis Group
#234 - 2013-01-07 14:30:07 UTC
Le Badass wrote:
Everybody have been PC gaming for 2 decades, mate.
Doesn't change that people on Eve-O are extremely conservative and lack vision.


WHAT DA F... !!?! We are lacking vision and are extremely conservative? Lol So when we say that there is simply no better controlls for EVE than keyboard+mouse, we are conservative? We are not againist some EVE mini games for tablets ans SMphones (like jita trader or something) that will be connected to the real world of EVE (like dust). We are just aggainist compromises in controllers. If EVE will be multiplatform, devs would need to deal with compromise between keyboard+mouse+touch display (not precise as pixel accurate mouse) etc... We just dont want any compromises. Either CCP should make some other EVE related game for different platforms (like dust) or shouldnt make EVE at all.
highonpop
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#235 - 2013-01-07 14:31:41 UTC
Eve Is Dying

FC, what do?

Julien Brellier
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#236 - 2013-01-07 14:51:12 UTC
So EVE is dead because touch screen tablets are flavour of the month?

No.Roll
Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
#237 - 2013-01-07 15:11:08 UTC
I think your logic is wrong. Your basing PC users based on PC sales, which is in no way an accurate measuring stick for people that actually use PC's. For one custom built PC's aren't recorded as a sale anywhere. Secondly people that do purchase desktops in stores typically hang on to them for far longer than most of your PC gamers who update their rigs. I know people that are still playing this game on 6-7 year old desktops where they have simply upgraded the RAM and Vid card.

People buy tablets and smartphones for the convenience of consuming information, not necessarily for playing games. As there isn't a controller or mouse for them, they are useless for most game formats as you lack the necessary control to make the game work. Touch interface is terrible enough when dealing with adjusting settings or monkeying with something. Other than looking at pics or handling word docs, touch interface sucks.

I think your one of those dreamers that thinks all books will soon be electronic and we won't print them anymore.
Kristopher Rocancourt
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#238 - 2013-01-07 15:49:11 UTC
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
CCP recently indulged in a bit of self-congratulation following widespread media coverage of their 450,000th paid EVE subscription. Mainstream news outlets, including Forbes, actually remarked on the game’s success despite its venerability and outdated subscription model. EVE is proving unexpected staying power, growing steadily while other MMOs such as WoW have struggled to retain monthly customers.

All this attention might suggest the future of EVE is rosy and bright, but consider:

- The future of traditional x86 and x64 PC architecture is increasingly vague. Laptops have been outselling desktop systems for years, but tablet sales are gaining exponentially. A whopping 122 million ARM-based tablets and smartphones sold in 2012.

- Within two years, ARM devices will account for more than half of all personal computer sales.

- 97% of those devices will employ touch as their primary input. A full 50% will support gesture input and 10% will natively display stereoscopic 3D.

- The PC gaming industry has little appetite for Windows 8, as evidenced by leaders such as Valve Software. Valve is currently backing an aggressive transition to Steam for Linux, with a repository of 40 games and counting already available to open-source users. Valve is also throwing support behind Oculus Rift, a revolutionary developing virtual reality system.

All this points to something CCP isn't admitting: their flagship game title could soon become too damn inconvenient to play if it remains bound for all time to traditional PCs.

For the moment, EVE’s subscribers are loyal and (on the whole) pleased with the status quo. CCP just completed their 18th successful expansion, filling EVE with upgrades and goodies ranging from simplified combat functions to baffling trading cards. Players are heavily invested in EVE, emotionally, financially, and otherwise.

But ARM and other mobile technologies are maturing fast, with multi-core processors, dedicated GPUs, and beautiful multi-touch displays claiming long-established PC territory, both in performance and sales. As our PCs age, we will replace them with touch-based multipurpose tablets, hybrid smartphones, and lord-knows-what other concoctions of techno-wizardry. Those who do choose a traditional PC may find Windows taking a backseat to Ubuntu and other platforms. The fact that these devices refuse to run EVE-Online will not deter us from choosing the device suited to our increasingly busy and mobile lives.

What’s troubling is that, to date, CCP has offered almost no interest beyond traditional PCs. They pulled official support for Linux in 2009, citing low usage. Fanfest attendees went wild last spring when CCP purportedly demonstrated EVE being tested on Android. But nearly a full year later, with no updates, no announcements, and no beta, we’re no longer convinced. It’s become clear CCP will never support many of the bleeding-edge technologies we most covet – mobile computing, open source operating systems, stereoscopic 3D, touch and gesture input, and virtual reality.

I predict a tipping point, perhaps one to two years in the future, where EVE fans, torn between a device that suits their needs and a device that runs EVE, will inevitably cancel their subscriptions and embrace a new era of personal computing. CCP will trumpet new expansions, drop all the tweaks and player content their little hearts desire, and even lower subscription prices, but the damage will be done.

CCP has time to pull it together, but it’s understandably harder and less interesting than designing new battlecruisers or tweaking mining yields. Bringing internet spaceships to a new generation of devices demands a complete interface overhaul, perhaps even a full-scale client rewrite. But in EVE’s greatest challenge lies also its greatest opportunity. Mobile and open-source gaming platforms are bringing accessibility and exposure to untouched masses. If CCP can’t get excited about retaining existing gamers, maybe the prospect of millions of potential new subscribers will whet their appetite for the job at hand.


OP: Eve is not for you.



http://killalliance.co.uk/tears/tears-holeysheet/

Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#239 - 2013-01-08 07:10:38 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Usagi Toshiro wrote:
While I agree that a large segment of the market is becoming mobile, desktops and laptops will still be around for a while. People on average keep computers for 3-5 years, the tech inclined upgrading them all the while.

I disagree on the market being dominated by Linux though. Windows (and iOS to a lesser extent) are much more user friendly. Linux is a great OS, no bones there, but think of all the less than computer illiterate sheep out there that can barely use a Windows machine without screwing it up. Now imagine them trying to use Linux... Roll


Linux Mint 13 is an incredibly stable OS, very user friendly, and when you combine that with the superior filing system, better security, lack of maintenance requirements, free software, updates, and long term support.... I think we have a winner. I use it almost exclusively, and there are "no bones" among its other users that it is easier, and even simpler, than windows.

EDIT: The ONLY problem is the lack of compatibility with popular windows-based software like EVE online, and in THAT case, you have a point - it would only be the tech inclined who are willing to go through the WINE process to make it compatible.


Sorry to disappoint, but Linux isn´t all that user-friendly.
For that, it would need to be idiot-proof (so basically you can´t screw up because the OS won´t let you). Also when it comes to everything else the OS has to do the thinking for you as well. Currently the scale is: Apple has the most idiot-proof OS, after that comes Microsoft (and given the neccessary functionality and compatibility there are limits how idiot-proof it can be, Apple pays with a small market for it´s design) and Linux has the least idiot-proof OS with the lowest tolerance for mistakes. And this means that it will only be attractive for people that really know what they are doing. The problem is: most don´t. They can follow orders like "click here to continue" and know about clicking and right-clicking symbols and maybe a little more, but if you aren´t taking them by their hand they can´t handle it. Even for those who know what they are doing using an idiot-proof system is convenient, it allows them to be lazier than usual, so even they aren´t neccessarily Linux-customers.

I got lost in thought... it was unfamiliar territory.

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#240 - 2013-01-08 08:33:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Sebastian N Cain wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Usagi Toshiro wrote:
While I agree that a large segment of the market is becoming mobile, desktops and laptops will still be around for a while. People on average keep computers for 3-5 years, the tech inclined upgrading them all the while.

I disagree on the market being dominated by Linux though. Windows (and iOS to a lesser extent) are much more user friendly. Linux is a great OS, no bones there, but think of all the less than computer illiterate sheep out there that can barely use a Windows machine without screwing it up. Now imagine them trying to use Linux... Roll


Linux Mint 13 is an incredibly stable OS, very user friendly, and when you combine that with the superior filing system, better security, lack of maintenance requirements, free software, updates, and long term support.... I think we have a winner. I use it almost exclusively, and there are "no bones" among its other users that it is easier, and even simpler, than windows.

EDIT: The ONLY problem is the lack of compatibility with popular windows-based software like EVE online, and in THAT case, you have a point - it would only be the tech inclined who are willing to go through the WINE process to make it compatible.


Sorry to disappoint, but Linux isn´t all that user-friendly.
For that, it would need to be idiot-proof (so basically you can´t screw up because the OS won´t let you). Also when it comes to everything else the OS has to do the thinking for you as well. Currently the scale is: Apple has the most idiot-proof OS, after that comes Microsoft (and given the neccessary functionality and compatibility there are limits how idiot-proof it can be, Apple pays with a small market for it´s design) and Linux has the least idiot-proof OS with the lowest tolerance for mistakes. And this means that it will only be attractive for people that really know what they are doing. The problem is: most don´t. They can follow orders like "click here to continue" and know about clicking and right-clicking symbols and maybe a little more, but if you aren´t taking them by their hand they can´t handle it. Even for those who know what they are doing using an idiot-proof system is convenient, it allows them to be lazier than usual, so even they aren´t neccessarily Linux-customers.


You can't disappoint me at all if you're not paying attention to the difference between distros. I was speaking about one distro in particular, Linux Mint 13. There are many other forms of linux, such as Ubuntu, which is what Mint is based off, and is itself a Debian-based distro. Also, the linux OS DOES in general prevent people from screwing up by having a root user that handles file and function admin - the only people that are going to screw up are those that login root and have no reason to and don't know what they're doing. Until someone does that, linux is perfectly idiot proof - that's what makes its filing system superior to windows, because in windows it's pretty easy to screw up something like boot.ini*, but not in Linux, not unless you have root access. Not necessary with Mint 13, not in the slightest. There are no requirements to build drivers for wi-fi or sound codecs, because it's all there.

Or, you have Fedora, which is pretty much a Windows clone and is also idiot proof. I don't like it myself, because it's a windows clone (if I want windows, i dual boot with win7). And before you try to tell me "Apple is idiot proof" - I have a mate that works for Apple tech support (true story) who loves ranting on about his bad day about the stupid apple customers that can't figure out supposedly "idiot proof" hardware. Why do we have anyone attempting to make "idiot proof" hardware or software anyway? If you ask me, someone attempting to use a computer should probably be computer literate to begin with. Not unlike how someone attempting to work a bandsaw should probably have some basic knowledge in power tools to begin with.

The problem is, people want the benefits and convenience of complex technology without having to face up to the possible responsibility of having to know how to actually use it. Then, when things don't work the way they want because they actually have no idea what they're doing, they want to blame the devs/creators of that technology instead of actually taking responsibility for learning how to use it correctly.

Linux is inherently unstable by nature. That's what makes Mint incredibly special. I've been using Mint 13 since it was released. Not only has it and all my software, including my PERL, PYTHON and C+ compilers, remained completely stable, but it's also been really easy and relatively "idiot proof" to use. And I can't think of anyone that does use it that has anything not-nice to say about it. Of course, I'm also using the XFCE version - there are plenty of not nice things to be said about the GNOME desktop, but even that's better than the UNITY desktop that Ubuntu users have inherited.

Mint 14 is out now, too. KDE version. Can't say I'll upgrade unless they make an XFCE version available, but even then I think with Mint 13's long-term support, I have found an OS that handles everything (including EVE and other windows softwares, if you know what you're doing) just fine.

*pun & meme intended Twisted

EDIT: Alongside the superior filing system is the fact that Linux doesn't require defragging and cleaning once a week. It doesn't gather a tonne of "registry errors" that fill up cache memory over time, causing the OS to slow down to the point where you can actually type faster than the buffer can keep up, allowing you to scribe out entire sentences on the keyboard, then mow the lawn, get a coffee, come back, and watch the sentence finish building on the screen in front of you while you roll a smoke for later.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104