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CSM7 Dec Summit Topics and Minutes status

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Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#141 - 2013-01-06 02:26:34 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
mynnna wrote:
What kind of slander is this? Evil


You're right, you're right, I was being far too kind. I should have told them you wanted to play with their babies and eat their wives. Twisted


Now you're just projecting.


It's called..... "poetic license". Cool

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#142 - 2013-01-06 03:29:51 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
mynnna wrote:
What kind of slander is this? Evil


You're right, you're right, I was being far too kind. I should have told them you wanted to play with their babies and eat their wives. Twisted


Now you're just projecting.


It's called..... "poetic license". Cool

Maybe you should write a few more stanzas then.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#143 - 2013-01-06 03:37:01 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Snow Axe wrote:
Realistically, all this will do will lead to the abolition of any kind of time estimate from the CSM. They're unpaid consultants writing a document of indeterminate length that has to be independently reviewed by a foreign company before it can even be finalized and released; that's not a situation where highly accurate time estimates can even be reasonably expected.


This, a thousand times this.

You guys have done an excellent job of proving that no matter how much the CSM improves its work, whether its in the accuracy of the minutes or the rate at which they are produced, there will always be something complained about or that can be used to describe how we have "failed" at this or that.

I don't think anyone really struggles with understanding that it is the holiday season and that while the CSM can make a massive effort to complete our end in record time, and we can heartily encourage CCP to do the same, we cannot control them.

If you needed us to spoonfeed by building that understanding into our own time estimate because it isn't painfully obvious on its own, I dunno what to say. Roll

The minutes will be out in time to be useful for the purposes of planning the future releases, that much I am 100% confident of. The players will not be suffering anything from this process other than a few weeks of frustrating impatience.

I didn't think of it as a failure at all (Snow Axe quoted me above). If we're waiting roughly a week more for the minutes it has been a month in total, including those ~2 weeks of Icelandic holiday, I see no problem myself with such a timeline.
What I said was that it reflects badly on you (The CSM) to aim for a too ambitious date without being able to keep it. Maybe that's petty, dunno, v0v.
If it's petty, at least be happy that it's the worst being said. Twisted

I am sad that you didn't use the potential of my post to plug yourself. Bad politician, bad!
(Speaking as former running-mate in a local election and election aide/tool in the upcoming, I can tell you that!)

No matter though, I feel pretty well represented on this years CSM. Hans might even get another vote next election, if he becomes a better politician!
None ofthe Above
#144 - 2013-01-06 03:59:28 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:
Weeeell awesome. Lets remove all minerals in the next patch and enjoy how the messed up economy makes for a great game!

Sorry, I can't disagree with you enough here.

Sure economic changes can spur gameplay, but they do have to be careful how they impact the economy or they could seriously kill the game.

Like all other challenges, these should be designed and not happenstance. Although certainly emergant game play is an added bonus, but it should not break the engine of the economy.

Hopefully your viewpoint comes from the economy not being your thing. Starting to look forward to Mynnna (seriously three ns? Can't talk you into running as Corestwo?) being on the CSM.


LOL. You're taking what I'm saying waaaaaay too literally. No one is saying "**** the economy". Regardless of what you think I know about economic issues, I was one of many that warned CCP about the farmability of FW. Twisted The problem is that even when an effect is predicted, its magnitude can't always be as well. CCP was well aware that something could happen along those lines, and the fact that they altered their release schedule because of an uncontrolled event shows pretty clearly that the economy is monitored and responded to.

I'm not at all advocating Eyjo and the design teams stay in locked, separate rooms like different genders at a Catholic school. Quite the opposite. You were simply asking about Eyjo and his role in the company, all I've been doing is explaining to you the way I've heard him talk about his job and responsbilities.


I wasn't asking anything.

I was advocating.

I've not been happy with CCP "blowing holes in their economy" and would like to see a more proactive economic adviser.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
None ofthe Above
#145 - 2013-01-06 04:02:58 UTC  |  Edited by: None ofthe Above
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:
Starting to look forward to Mynnna (seriously three ns? Can't talk you into running as Corestwo?) being on the CSM.


Me too! We talk almost daily about the things going on in the game, and there's a lot all of us* can learn (and have learned) from his expertise. Just take what he says with a grain of salt, him being a dirty rotten Goon and all who is probably out to destroy your game, steal your wives, eat your babies, and play with your toys**.

*Players in general.

**Not necessarily in that order.


I am curious as to how he would juggle the responsibilities of being one the goon's money men (part of the cabal that must not be named), an editor at TheM and a CSM.

... and I don't trust any of you CSM... you play that EVE game... obviously all sociopaths.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#146 - 2013-01-06 04:25:44 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:
I've not been happy with CCP "blowing holes in their economy" and would like to see a more proactive economic adviser.


Glad we're on the same page than. o7

Alphea Abbra wrote:
What I said was that it reflects badly on you (The CSM) to aim for a too ambitious date


My apologies. Next time we'll aim for a later date. It'll be less stressful for us anyways, glad you're more patient than we are. Twisted

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#147 - 2013-01-06 08:05:46 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:
Starting to look forward to Mynnna (seriously three ns? Can't talk you into running as Corestwo?) being on the CSM.


Me too! We talk almost daily about the things going on in the game, and there's a lot all of us* can learn (and have learned) from his expertise. Just take what he says with a grain of salt, him being a dirty rotten Goon and all who is probably out to destroy your game, steal your wives, eat your babies, and play with your toys**.

*Players in general.

**Not necessarily in that order.


I am curious as to how he would juggle the responsibilities of being one the goon's money men (part of the cabal that must not be named), an editor at TheM and a CSM.

... and I don't trust any of you CSM... you play that EVE game... obviously all sociopaths.


Mittani managed to juggle the responsibilities of being the one leading our merry band of reprobates and serving on the CSM, as have a multitude of other alliance leaders and higher-ups. If elected, I'm sure I'll manage. To address what I suspect is your specific point, in light of the "money man" comment, the line between insider information and simply moving with the herd is rather obvious - "Is it on the test server yet?"

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#148 - 2013-01-06 12:23:00 UTC
Alphea Abbra wrote:
What I said was that it reflects badly on you (The CSM) to aim for a too ambitious date without being able to keep it. Maybe that's petty, dunno, v0v.

Better to aim for the stars and hit the moon, than aim for New Jersey and hit Philadelphia.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#149 - 2013-01-06 12:48:53 UTC
Aiming for New Jersey is a bad idea to begin with, while hitting Philadelphia will only make things worse. On the moon you'll at least asphyxiate before realising what a daft idea it was! Twisted
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#150 - 2013-01-06 14:06:55 UTC
This is taking forever.....

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#151 - 2013-01-06 14:46:29 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Two step wrote:
Updated, Hans finished the last session, and as he said, it is up to CCP now.

Ok so they were not actually completed by the CSM on the 28th but actually on the 5th a week later.

All but a few sessions were completed before Xmas, quite a few in the first week after returning from the summit.

Alphea Abbra wrote:
...I think it speaks poorly of you and CCP to be unable to estimate how long it'd take to write and edit the minutes.

We set an ambitious goal, to be sure. The important thing was to ensure the minutes were ready to publish immediately after a Unifex devblog that should be out sometime next week -- in particular, several sessions that directly reflect and expand upon those minutes. Those key sessions were all submitted to CCP within 10 days of the end of the summit.

Alphea Abbra wrote:
Apart from that, I'd like any CSM rep. to answer whether the list on the first page can be taken as an inkling of the general workload that has been done this past year?

Different people contribute in different ways. I have more free time than most, so I can do more transcribing and editing. However, this issue was discussed at the summit.

Alphea Abbra wrote:
My question is because only 9 members figure on that list, 4 members have not written a single thing, and Trebor (#1 writer with 8 sessions covered, 2x that of Hans #2) wrote ~34.8% of the sessions, while Trebor & Hans (#1 w. 8, #2 w. 4) has written more than 50% of the sessions (52.2 to be more precise).


Of the sessions that had substantial content (some were basically NDA), the first draft counts were:

Trebor 6, Hans 4, Elise 3, Kelduum 2, Two Step 2, Alekseyev, Seleene and Dovinian 1.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
None ofthe Above
#152 - 2013-01-06 17:17:27 UTC
mynnna wrote:

Mittani managed to juggle the responsibilities of being the one leading our merry band of reprobates and serving on the CSM, as have a multitude of other alliance leaders and higher-ups. If elected, I'm sure I'll manage. To address what I suspect is your specific point, in light of the "money man" comment, the line between insider information and simply moving with the herd is rather obvious - "Is it on the test server yet?"


Yes, that is specifically one of my concerns.

Anyway, lets hope you have better "hat management" skills than Mittani.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#153 - 2013-01-06 18:21:02 UTC
Little puzzled by that, Mittani managed his "hats" just fine, and his downfall had nothing to do with it.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
None ofthe Above
#154 - 2013-01-06 18:53:16 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Little puzzled by that, Mittani managed his "hats" just fine, and his downfall had nothing to do with it.


Are you saying the wizard hat was blameless? :P

Fair to say I disagree, and I thought Mittani decided he couldn't manage the hats. But this is uncomfortably off topic at this point for this thread. May be open to discussing it later, somewhere else.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#155 - 2013-01-06 19:19:39 UTC
Indeed. I'm sure I'll be addressing and re-addressing and re-re-addressing that very issue once it comes time to "officially" make a candidacy thread.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Raid'En
#156 - 2013-01-06 19:23:02 UTC
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Alphea Abbra wrote:
What I said was that it reflects badly on you (The CSM) to aim for a too ambitious date without being able to keep it. Maybe that's petty, dunno, v0v.

Better to aim for the stars and hit the moon, than aim for New Jersey and hit Philadelphia.

nah, he's right, it's better to give a later date, so that we won't bother you if you release it sooner :P
(OMG Trebor changed his avatar !)
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#157 - 2013-01-06 19:44:15 UTC
Raid'En wrote:
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Alphea Abbra wrote:
What I said was that it reflects badly on you (The CSM) to aim for a too ambitious date without being able to keep it. Maybe that's petty, dunno, v0v.

Better to aim for the stars and hit the moon, than aim for New Jersey and hit Philadelphia.

nah, he's right, it's better to give a later date, so that we won't bother you if you release it sooner :P
(OMG Trebor changed his avatar !)


Perhaps it's better for you to simply accept than when a group says "We hope to do this by..." they are offering an ideal estimate, not a promise.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#158 - 2013-01-06 20:56:28 UTC
Raid'En wrote:
(OMG Trebor changed his avatar !)

It's how I send messages to my shadowy masters.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#159 - 2013-01-07 02:14:16 UTC
A big thanks to the intrepid speakers corner community for blowing this scandal wide open. This CSM will always carry the shameful stain of Minutesgate.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Dovinian
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#160 - 2013-01-07 02:40:26 UTC
I had originally signed up for 2 of the more data-heavy sessions but due a super busy Holiday season and some ~stuff~ going on I was only able to commit to get the one done. But goddamn is is a fantastic write-up.