EVE General Discussion

*sigh*

With such reasoning you can make everything sound boring. If you think that EVE is only about Logi, DPS and EWAR then you should start practicing PVP again. You know : Less crying, more playing.


Logistics are THE thing allowing EVE PVP to unleash it's true potential, by making possible original combinaison of ships that wouldn't have worked otherwise due to a lack of tanking. (random example, Naga brawler)
Logistics are THE thing making EWAR ships a viable choice in PVP.
Logistics are THE thing making you play smart, because you can't just focus something until it pops.

So please, for the love of Bob, turn your tongue inside your month tree times before speaking.

Fights without logi's are in brawls pure dps to buffer ratio of both fleets, in kiting dps vs range/damage mitigation/gtfo ability. Close range brawls without logi while enjoyable because of the vast ammount of explosions in a short time are tacticly rather uninteresting. Having to factor in breaking logi cap chain, bringing enough alpha if you can't overpower the reps with dps, ewar'ing the logy to mitigate their effectiveness all add's tactics and depth to fights imo.
And tbh I'd rather have an hour long fight than a 5 minute one.

Solo/duo engagements are imo not a good place to look at logi balance from, you are conciously vastly limiting what you can engage when you choose to go out solo, in most cases gangs with logi are out of the question.

What for?

wow, that's... actually quite fair~

those figures are also what you get when a logistics cruiser is hit with target painters and sensor damps, OP. all it takes is some mid slots in your gang. (sounds like 1 target painter, and 3 sensor damps)

enough teasing, though... I just really enjoy logistics, OP. that's all.

I was also curious if you would end up describing my remote rep rattlesnake gang, in terms of sig radius and transfer range. (you wouldn't like those either).

To make logi fights more variable and dynamic.

yk

Those were small group pvp to be accurate.

I love the R&K video and watched it about 10 times. But if you dissect the video a bit to *what* made it sooo good it was there's a lot to be said about the actually fight mechancis seperate from what actually made the video great. What makes the video superb is...

1) Lord Malfador's narrating is on a professional level
2) The backstory and politics of the conflict are framed superbly
3) Corps involved are setup beutifully
4) The music sets the tone, and the FCs is dramatic

...but the fight itself (watch it with the sound off) IMHO shows the problem. All the *major* players involved were fairly stationary and the end equation just like all other logi fights boiled down to dps vs rep. Notice how at the end when the fight was "won" it was actually still going because R&K had won the dps vs rep equation? Lord Malfador states it plainly that Agent's rep is now unbeateable and the battle is now determined.

I'm not saying 'Get rid of alll logistics!'. Just tweak it a bit to be more dynamic. Whatever tweak that will not have a real effect on large fleet warfare, while making small group more interesting.

yk

Their are no 'problems' in video games. Just game mechanics. The *challenge* is to make fights as intersting and dynamic as possible.

Again just look at ATX and New Eden Open to see how logi ships had to be restricted in order to protect the matches from the boredom which is the current logistics mechanics.

off for now

yk

And you really watched it 10 times? Because AHARM had 2 triage carrier on the field, they even had at least one dred so they had superior rep and dps on the field. Now you say it then all boils down to dps vs rep, how come AHARM lost that fight?

I think you complete miss the point. You say you watched that video 10 times but did not notice that the key was cap warfare which rendered the enemy triage and dps useless. Also the reper you mentioned and the unbeatable tank was a local one.

there are tons of counters to logistic ships. Bringing tons of logis to the field is not a guaranteed win. I don't know why you demand CCP should nerf logis when you as well could prepare for them with a few modules even in a small fleet. There are actually many examples and suggestions how you can beat them all over this thread.

Obviously you've never run an incursion where many times ships at the opposite end of each room are out of range - even with the long repping ranges. Snipers are easily out of range in many fightts due to their crazy long range ability.. We have to move in range to rep them. So if we nerf the rep range are we also going to nerf the sniper range? I don't think so.

-1 myopically bad idea.

It is nice to bring up destroyer gun range since the destroyer base target range is a whopping 30km on average. They also have half the base shield, armour and hull of a logistics cruiser. Also, Destroyers are T1, for the killing of frigates, the base hull for interdictors and in the case of the cormorant - hobo mining.

Now, I agree that logistics cruiser should have some sort of range boost, considering that remote high slots do have some low ranges, they do have to look after a fleet and make sure the pewpew happens. What I think that people are trying to get at though is that perhaps they could have a little less range.

This topic, though, reminds me of an older series of topics about a single ship. That ship was doubly rebalanced by a rework of its bonuses and a nerf to its primary utility of choice. That ship was also a support ship, not a gunship. That ship was the Falcon.