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"The Scriptures" in printed form, please!

First post
Author
Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2013-01-03 18:27:42 UTC
Tomiko Kawase wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
CCP Eterne wrote:
Oh, you have no idea how much I'd love to do this.

Unfortunately, religious text is a weak point in my writing and it'd take a massive amount of work.


I do not want you to do this.

I do not want to come home from work to find you whipping slaves in our apartment and screaming about the glory of the Empress while massaging yourself with pieces of parchment.

Lol


(It's actually a pretty awesome idea to have these printed though, in all seriousness)



Not sure if the idea was ever thrown around, but if not printed form, e-books would be welcomed for EVE lore. I would pay money for a collection of all the chronicles I could easily stick on a kindle. Collecting some of the longer works on the wiki would be awesome, too.

Me too. I'd gladly pay for a Chronicles compilation or lore compilation in some eformat.
Jimmy Hawks
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-01-03 18:41:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Jimmy Hawks
Bloodpetal wrote:


I think this would be cool, but 600-1000 pages is an ABSURD amount of information.

I think just a few more segments of the Amarrian Scriptures would be very intriguing.



Maybe absurdly awesome amount of Information? Take the three current EVE Novels. All three together have probably more than 1200 Pages and it's very little Info P

600 Pages isn't much believe me. Take some Fantasy or Sci-Fi Novel. Most good books have usualy 600-900-ish Pages anyway. Sounds like much but it isn't really that much.

EDIT

I took a look into those three Novel real quick. The issues I have here have:

The Empyrean Age: 657 Pages
A Burning Life: 397 Pages
Templar One: 464 Pages

That's a total of: 1'518 Pages.

And honestly all the rich Info in those Books, even though there are many super interestign details, it feels still as if there is waaaay too little Info.

So a Book like the Scriptures should surely have a volume of 600-1'000 Pages too.
And of course in PRINTED form P
Arline Kley
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#23 - 2013-01-03 18:52:47 UTC
It wouldn't need to be a single large book either -

Maybe two or three books (or even more if the Scriptures get fleshed out fully) as a small series would work, lessen the amount of writing needing to be done at once, and give people some more impressive appearance on peoples book cases.

And maybe have Quafe available again...

"For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57

Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#24 - 2013-01-03 21:12:56 UTC
Maybe we leave the church in town and don't expect too much? I am reading an excellent book on the Tanakh and it's top to bottom ~500 sites. I'd think one shouldn't really expect more than 1/4 to 1/2 of that for a fictional book on the Amarrian Scripture.
Synthetic Cultist
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#25 - 2013-01-03 23:13:50 UTC
I was under the impression that "The Scriptures" were... rather large.

In that, during an event some years ago, involving the Order of Saint Tetrimon, it took several Bestowers to move some original printings of some Scriptural works.

several thousand cubic metres. Shocked

Synthia 1, Empress of Kaztropol.

It is Written.

Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2013-01-04 01:11:33 UTC
They are indeed, Synthetic. We're not talking here about a real compilation of the Scriptures, which would include technology far beyond our current reach, but a compilation of the important part for us RPers and people interested in EvE Lore. Inside the universe they are way too big for any book to gather them.

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander

Jimmy Hawks
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-01-04 11:00:48 UTC
Synthetic Cultist wrote:
I was under the impression that "The Scriptures" were... rather large.

In that, during an event some years ago, involving the Order of Saint Tetrimon, it took several Bestowers to move some original printings of some Scriptural works.

several thousand cubic metres. Shocked


Yes there are waaaay too many texts to put it into one physical Book.
Hency my idea about Jamyl Sarum or more likely the Theology Council releasing one Book that will be looked at as the basics of the Scriptures that count for everyone in their Empire.
Since there are so many texts about the Scriptures, that basic work would logically also have a very huge volume. Therfore I wouldn't be entierly happy with only a 300 Page Scripture Book. Such a small volume, even if it's just the basics, would just not make sense.

Further study could then only be done via future Chronicles and future Novels.
CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#28 - 2013-01-04 11:08:05 UTC
Amarr Scriptures: The Abridged Series

It would just be 600 pages of "Screw the rules, I have God."

EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative ※ EVE Illuminati ※ Fiction Adept

@CCP_Eterne ※ @EVE_LiveEvents

Jimmy Hawks
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-01-04 11:11:43 UTC
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:


Thirdly, that "Book of Prayers and Devotions" is licentiously utilizing Judeo-Christian prayers, exchaging for example in the Intercession of the Saints "virgin mother of God" with Dano Gheinok or simply taking excerpts of psalms without altering them at all - and it isn't even pointing its sources out.


You know I was actually thinking about this and a thought occured to me (no, not given by God, hehe):

Since the whole EVE Lore is (solely) based in the Future of (most likely) our current Reality, it would only make sense if knowledge of the Bible would have passed down for Generations. The people now known as Amarrians have basically been Terrans (as any other EVE Race) when the EVE Gate collapsed.
The millenias after that collapse must have been really terrible. So the ones that became later known as Amarrians probably clinged to the Bible in order to not lose faith and hope in that harsh times. As it usualy goes, different Preachers go for different approaches over time and so the stories even alter or new ones get added.

So... following that thought it would actually be quite possible that some of the Tales and Stories we know from the Bible would have endured the time and could be found in the one or other form in the Scriptures.

Any thoughts on that?
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#30 - 2013-01-04 12:00:22 UTC
CCP Eterne wrote:
Amarr Scriptures: The Abridged Series

It would just be 600 pages of "Screw the rules, I have God."


This made my day xD
Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#31 - 2013-01-05 10:25:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicoletta Mithra
Jimmy Hawks wrote:
You know I was actually thinking about this and a thought occured to me (no, not given by God, hehe):

Since the whole EVE Lore is (solely) based in the Future of (most likely) our current Reality, it would only make sense if knowledge of the Bible would have passed down for Generations. The people now known as Amarrians have basically been Terrans (as any other EVE Race) when the EVE Gate collapsed.
The millenias after that collapse must have been really terrible. So the ones that became later known as Amarrians probably clinged to the Bible in order to not lose faith and hope in that harsh times. As it usualy goes, different Preachers go for different approaches over time and so the stories even alter or new ones get added.

So... following that thought it would actually be quite possible that some of the Tales and Stories we know from the Bible would have endured the time and could be found in the one or other form in the Scriptures.

Any thoughts on that?


Sure: The bible is based on religious literature far older than itself: The Enuma Elish for example. Still, the stories have been extensively reworked and got re-interpreted in a way that gives them a massage that is quite distinct from the older tales they are based upon to the point that the massage that is conveyed has virtually nothing to do with the original massage of these stories.

Second, whatever holy texts the conformists - the group that later should come to be known as the Amarr - had with them those were reworked and revised by their prophet Dano Gheinok. Since then, practically, if not even before that time, there have been additions, revisions and re-workings of the Scriptures. Such a constant revision of a holy text is nothing out of the order: It happened also with the Bible.

So, I think it is quite improbable to find something that is word-for-word found in the Bible today. So, next to using the biblical material like that being probably offensive, it's also highly implausible to do that.

P.S.: There are four books that are, as far as PF is available by now, four books in the scriptures that "form the basis of the Amarr religion and are thus considered the most important by the Amarr." (See the Article on Dano Gheinok) Book I, Book II, the Book of Gheinok the First (those three apparently originated by the first prophet) and the Book of Reclaiming. 4 biblical books aren't that many pages: The five books of mose or the Torah is in my nice luxury edition of the Bible roughly 150 sides.
Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2013-01-05 15:41:09 UTC
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:
So, I think it is quite improbable to find something that is word-for-word found in the Bible today. So, next to using the biblical material like that being probably offensive, it's also highly implausible to do that.


Indeed, and even if such references could exist, they would hardly mean the same. Afterall, there are inmense theological differences between christianism and amarrianism: for example, there is no Devil in Amarr religion, there is the Trickster but it's not the same thing nor has the same theological importance. Which undoubtedly would have a lot to do with many other central tenements of the faiht such as the existance of Hell.

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander

Maire Gheren
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2013-01-05 17:10:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Maire Gheren
Jimmy Hawks wrote:
Since the whole EVE Lore is (solely) based in the Future of (most likely) our current Reality, it would only make sense if knowledge of the Bible would have passed down for Generations..Any thoughts on that?

Go pick up the Epic of Gilgamesh and see how much of it you recognize. This came out of Sumerian culture some four thousand, five hundred years ago, and predates the Old Testament. See how closely the modern culture aligns to this. Honestly, Christianity five centuries ago would be all but unrecognizable as Christianity today, other than using all the right key words. There is all sorts of stuff that people ignore out of the bible now because it is so alien to anything we experience. The church itself has changed dramatically in just the recent century or two.
The cultures of New Eden have been around for twenty thousand years. Even if the connection to the bible existed, it would be completely meaningless. It's hard to even comprehend how much time that is. New Eden could have gone from stone age to advanced civilization five times in that period of time, withered to dust, and had long enough for the evidence of their passing to all but vanish each time. The Joves are a johnny-come-lately. It's hard to grasp the sense of human history right now, when we only know about around five thousand years of it, and New Eden had four times that post eve gate.
Not only is the current versions of the bible almost certainly gone, but no historians even know what it might have looked like. If they found one, they would have to get a linguist to try to figure out what even the letters were to try to translate it. Amarr would find the Bible's pro-slavery stance to be a reassurance in the righteousness of their cause, but the message itself would not really resonate with the faithful.
Master Sunfang
EVE Enlightened
#34 - 2013-01-05 23:31:52 UTC
Jimmy Hawks wrote:
No, I am not a supporter of the Amarr (I like their Cloaks and Hoods though...)
No, I don't support their Slavery.
No, I am not a religious person (Spiritual yes, -not- religious!)

However... After reading the EVE Novels and many of the Chronicles I just can't deny that the Amarrian Scriptures are indeed highly fascinating! While I was always like "Pff... damn Amarrians... Keep them away from me!", I've come to notice that I keep reading all the stuff about their Scriptures and how the Amarr interprete them on various occassions to make things seem as if they occured exacly as the Scriptures foretold them.

Now I am aware that there are not only multiple versions of the Scriptures within the Amarr Empire, but that the whole of the collection is too big to put it all together into one Book...
However, maybe you CCP Savants can put together a 600 - 1'000 Page Book that is The Scriptures. Lore wise you could always explain it's existance as if Sarum I or the Theology Council released a "core" version that counts for all Amarrians as the standard of the Scriptures.
You could release that in printed form in a pretty golden Hard Cover version. It sure would be one of my fave Books in my private Library...

I just wish this Book to be in my collection!

What does the Community think about this?

And no... I really am not an Amarr in disguise!


This sounds like a wonderfully novel idea. Unfortunately the whole of the epic is, as you say, far to large to compile into one 600 - 1000 page book. I would also like to add that the scriptures are reserved for God's chosen few, which is why there are not that many chronicles disseminated into the public forum. (Even among the Amarr, very few people have access to the entire epic) This fact, I believe, is a subtle way to gather converts. "Sell a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and you're out of business."

A book like is not a bad idea, and I would even find it amusing to contribute to it's creation (though being an Amarr scholar, picking it apart and interpritting it sounds far more enjoyable to me)

I hope you get your wish :)
Da Dom
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2013-01-06 03:39:14 UTC
Hmmm

So let me get this straight, you want the gold plated version of the book of reclaiming?

Because Far-que... That's why.

Jimmy Hawks
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-01-06 04:02:40 UTC
Da Dom wrote:
Hmmm

So let me get this straight, you want the gold plated version of the book of reclaiming?



No, the "Book of Reclaiming" is only one of a myriade of Scripture Texts. There are other parts of the Scriptures like "Book I", "Book II", "Book Trials" or "Book of Missions". Not to mention probably a thousand of other texts that haven't even been mentioned yet in the Lore.
My request is to put together something like an official version of the basics of the Scriptures. Of course we're not talking about -real- gold for the Cover but rather an Artwork that does the Scriptures justice and that is coloured in an Amarrian Gold tone.

I hope that answers your question.

Also: thank you to Nicoletta Mithra, Sepherim and Maire Gheren for the insightful explanation. Much appreciated.
Da Dom
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2013-01-06 08:00:08 UTC
Jimmy Hawks wrote:
No, the "Book of Reclaiming" is only one of a myriade of Scripture Texts. There are other parts of the Scriptures like "Book I", "Book II", "Book Trials" or "Book of Missions". Not to mention probably a thousand of other texts that haven't even been mentioned yet in the Lore.
My request is to put together something like an official version of the basics of the Scriptures. Of course we're not talking about -real- gold for the Cover but rather an Artwork that does the Scriptures justice and that is coloured in an Amarrian Gold tone.

I hope that answers your question.

Also: thank you to Nicoletta Mithra, Sepherim and Maire Gheren for the insightful explanation. Much appreciated.


Yes, that answers my question. Do you have any links to said scriptures?

I only ask because 150 years after the first great reclaiming, the Scriptures were purged of those passages deemed to be apocryphal to the true faith and a vicious campaign against heterodoxy launched, effectively rebooting the official church as an institution controlled and shaped directly by the will of the Council.

Seems to me that Book of Reclaiming and it's message of
Quote:
I give to you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given.
IS the Theology Council's "core" version that counts for all Amarrians as the standard of the Scriptures that you are looking for.

Because Far-que... That's why.

Jimmy Hawks
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-01-06 08:55:42 UTC
Da Dom wrote:


Yes, that answers my question. Do you have any links to said scriptures?


The only Link I found where all these Books from above are listed is: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Scriptures
Da Dom
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2013-01-06 10:13:25 UTC
Jimmy Hawks wrote:
The only Link I found where all these Books from above are listed is: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Scriptures


Yes. Thankyou. I've seen this page. It's a shame it's not dated

You wanted more spiritual food than these little snippets can provide, didn't you? There is a lot of good player created/researched content in the world, if you're skilled at reading without your eyes.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Ken/The_Hitchhikers_Guide_to_New_Eden_v0.91.pdf

Because Far-que... That's why.

Jimmy Hawks
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2013-01-06 10:49:23 UTC
Da Dom wrote:
Jimmy Hawks wrote:
The only Link I found where all these Books from above are listed is: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Scriptures


Yes. Thankyou. I've seen this page. It's a shame it's not dated

You wanted more spiritual food than these little snippets can provide, didn't you? There is a lot of good player created/researched content in the world, if you're skilled at reading without your eyes.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Ken/The_Hitchhikers_Guide_to_New_Eden_v0.91.pdf


Thank you for the Link.
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