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Kronos or Paladin
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Chainsaw Plankton

FaDoyToy

Likes received: 3,263

#21 - 2013-01-05 10:42:08 UTC

kronos and paladin are both pretty good. I have way more time in the paladin (and nightmare) and in amarr space it is awesome (and pretty damn good in caldari space too)

Kronos I've mostly just used in a few missions. pretty awesome on the assault and enemies abound 1, 3, 4. ones I can remember off the top of my head.

my fits: (I have a 3% pg implant for a vindicator setup, as I cba to train hybrid rigging 5, before I put that in I just used a meta 4 rep on the paladin because I'm too cheap to buy a faction one) omni-tanked for laziness and slightly harder to gank, kronos with no shields and an exp hole has very little ehp. I'd probably put t2 cccs on the paladin at this point but I think I'm done with missioning for a long time, and drop a cap recharger for something, prob tc or sensor booster depending on mission.

[Paladin, Tachys]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Damage Control II
Large Armor Repairer II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Salvager II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgoblin II x5
Curator II x2

[Kronos, 425s cap injec]
Large Armor Repairer II
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Damage Control II
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer

Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge L
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Salvager II

Large Hybrid Burst Aerator II
Large Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster I

Warden II x3
Hobgoblin II x5
Warrior II x5

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

McRoll

Extraction and Exploration Ltd.

Likes received: 103

#22 - 2013-01-05 12:16:58 UTC

Apocryphal Noise wrote:

Hakaimono wrote:

Forget the Kronos and Paladin and get a Vargur. Problem solved. Problem stays solved...until you lose it. Then you get another one because any idiot can make their isk back with that sexy beast of a ship.

I don't get why the vargur is so popular. You're shooting almost 100% in falloff. Even if the raw dps is higher than the other turret marauders its effective dps is probably the same or less. You're also going to spending the most on ammo with the vargur.

It is so popular because it doesn't suffer the problems of wrong damage types and is mostly unaffected by tracking disruption (it doesn't reduce falloff afaik). Also, its tracking and firing rate enables is to kill frigates comfortably up to 20 km in 1- 2 salvos, you are independent from drones in most cases. Add a great tank on top of it and you are golden.

Also, only its on paper dps seems bad because of falloff. In reality you can comfortably shoot to 50 km and beyond and still doing fine damage. You guys really need to check up on the falloff formula, I don't have the numbers in my head but I guess I am doing around 80% of my maximum DPS most of the time.

[Vargur, New Setup 1]

Domination Gyrostabilizer
Domination Gyrostabilizer
Domination Gyrostabilizer
Domination Tracking Enhancer
Domination Tracking Enhancer

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Projectile Burst Aerator II
Large Projectile Ambit Extension I

The core fit gives you a range of 4.2 +72 range with standard ammo without factoring in implants, I have some more because of falloff and 2x damage implants. If you need even more range, take barrage (8.2 + 108). You will be doing most of your paper DPS inside typical ranges of nearly every mission.

Unoob Udumb

Doomheim

Likes received: 18

#23 - 2013-01-05 15:47:54 UTC

McRoll wrote:

It is so popular because it doesn't suffer the problems of wrong damage types and is mostly unaffected by tracking disruption (it doesn't reduce falloff afaik).

It does reduce falloff since Retribution came out. One sansha TD and you're down to ~3 + 35 km range. More than one and you're almost screwed, since what will be in your range will be under your guns. I used to run missions in Amarr space with my Vargur.
Well ... not anymore!


McRoll Extraction and Exploration Ltd. Likes received: 103	#24 - 2013-01-05 21:29:04 UTC O wow, good to know. Now I need to check on Amarr missions which have TD's in them, what a bummer. But still, other than that the previous arguments are valid. I have a Pally myself but never use it, Vargur is just so much better overall

Fonac

Imperial Academy

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 123

#25 - 2013-01-06 01:48:01 UTC

McRoll wrote:

Apocryphal Noise wrote:

Hakaimono wrote:

Falloff is something many take for granted, i really do not understand why projectiles are so popular as they are.
for example lets compare the vargur with the paladin:

if you shoot at 4.2 +72 km's range on a rat with the vargur, you will do 50% of your total dps, with your fit that is 438 dps
This means that at 4.2+36 you will do ~80% of your total dps, which on this particular fit is 700 dps without implants and all skills at lvl 5.

Now the paladin at the same range

With a standard tachyon fit you will do 849 dps, with an optimal of 43+41 km's. Chuck in Aurora (range crystals for lasers) And you get a range of 154+41, and a dps of 566, far superior of the vargur. even tho the range is not relevant it's still much better than what the vargur can do.

Reason i say 4.2+36 is because i feel it's the maximum range you usually fight in, you could say less but it does not really matter because the vargur's dps even at optimal never reaches the paladin's anyway, so the paladin only gets better and better the closer the targets are(ofc without factoring in tracking) You could also say more, but the paladin still holds the upper hand by quite a far margin.

I've personally flown the paladin, nightmare, machariel and the vargur... and i honestly think the projectile ships has become victim to far to much attention, as they really aren't that good as people say.

The only real benefit the vargur has, is the fact that it has ammo for all NPC's this is a big thing, but in my opinion not enough to warrant its use over a paladin in amarr mission space.

Sobaan Tali

Caldari Quick Reaction Force

Likes received: 1,256

#26 - 2013-01-06 09:04:17 UTC

Kara Books wrote:

Apocryphal Noise wrote:

White Tree wrote:

THE CORRECT ANSWER IS VARGUR.

i love you white tree

Pulse pally is terrible though. Outside of 20 km's you're doing worse damage than a 425 Kronos and you're still going to have to slowboat around (380 m/s l0l) to kill a lot of stuff. Think i'm gonna go with Kronos, thanks for the input everyone.

1200 under 50km, in general most Amarr stuff wants to be within 50

Want to note, I do plan to skip the Mach and go for a Varg on my up and coming alt, I hears good things and I want to have a crack at loading it out and shooting things in the face.

You'll love it. Better tank and doen't burn through ammo like a hot knife through butter and.....the Vargur looks sweeter now. Clear Skies eat your heart out.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."


Chainsaw Plankton FaDoyToy Likes received: 3,263	#27 - 2013-01-06 09:36:40 UTC I can't stand to look at my vargur now :( okay it's not that bad, it just lacks the character of the old vargur. @ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Opertone

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 341

#28 - 2013-01-07 09:42:23 UTC

Autocannons are unholy

Unholy grail.... No cap use )), the closer rats get, the heavier they get beaten. ACs cycle fast enough, so you can switch targets as needed. ACs have superior tracking, so even faster smaller targets get hit for more.

PvP wise ACs do rainbow damage, which is hard to resist. EM and Explosive, thermal and kinetic. You can even split weapons by ammo groups, 2 for Explosive longer range, 2 for Therm/Kin closer range. It actually works for small scale PvP, you come top damage dealer because of extended damage projection range.

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again

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