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How EVE Became Obsolete (And why CCP hasn’t noticed)

First post
Author
Mire Stoude
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2013-01-06 05:35:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Mire Stoude
The traditional computer will only be replaced by tablets and what-nots by the same type of person who couldn't be bothered to learn what a computer did until they wanted to get on Facebook.

The "geek" will continue to buy computers and keep playing MMO's and other games on them.
Doctor Ungabungas
Doomheim
#42 - 2013-01-06 05:36:22 UTC
The biggest mistake people make when they buy a tablet is thinking that they are just buying another computer.

They keep the tablet for a few months and then either abandon or sell it because they aren't using it because it doesn't do things as well as their regular computer does and they don't do any computing in a place where their regular computer(s) aren't available.

Looking at the average schedule, people are:
1) At Home
2) Driving
3) At Work
4) Socialising

The only time (the average) people ever use a tablet is when waiting for one of the above things to happen where they don't have access to a regular PC. (And even then, only where their smart phone isn't sufficient.)

So yes, unless you have a specific reason to buy and use a tablet, they aren't going to revolutionise your life. People at home are going to use their more powerful desktop over their tablet. Microsoft and Apple certainly believe this is true which is why they are trying to integrate their desktop and mobile operating systems, so that the transition between mobile and desktop devices is seemless.

Where you will see more tablets is in the workforce, in places where computers have been infeasable before. Foremen on building sites, factory shift leaders and other 'in the field' supervisory roles go crazy for these things. I wonder how many of them are playing EVE.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#43 - 2013-01-06 05:36:45 UTC
gad, and what about the graphics prettiness (which I run across all clients)

even with the pixel canvas of a retina display, how much can you scale the UI before it's not practical with a touch input? ok, wait, I guess a moving magnifier would work for overview and such...

all I really want a tablet for is updating skill queue and various station things, THAT would be awesome...

I think you're overshooting the obsolete thing, maybe "has room for improvement." I don't see tablet gaming making EVE obsolete. *definitely* would be great if I had a tablet station UI, however.

a simultaneous login tablet companion, that would be... amazing. maps, skill queue, trading, everything. like a kneeboard for irl pilots. ok, now i'm just dreaming
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#44 - 2013-01-06 05:37:17 UTC
There are reasonable conclusions that can be drawn from the mobile data that we have. We can tell that people really like surfing the web on iPads and Android phones. We can tell that only a very small number of people give a flying fucknut about flash. We can tell that if you give a user an easier and simpler way to do something, the user will take that option.

You are suggesting that everything will eventually be simpler and easier to the point that "there's an app for that." This is not the case. Some things will never be a better user experience on a tablet than they are with a desktop or laptop. Like, for example, developing the software that runs on tablets on phones.

Regardless of my use or yours individually, I can guarantee you one thing: the more apps are being made for mobile devices, the more traditional PCs are being sold to build them with. We may get to a place where it's only devs and nerds and idiots like me who buy desktops, but that class of people is growing at the same rate as the apps that are being created. I don't want to talk about professions where desktops and laptops are a necessity for certain purposes. I don't have data on that. But I bet it's an even bigger market than the app developer market.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon

Ageck Kalenia
Development Holdings
#45 - 2013-01-06 05:38:30 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:


[you're looking at $4000 of hardware. tablet can't provide this, and I have a feeling you overpaid http://imgur.com/a/Ii7Q1


Hmm... looks to me like $3000 worth of pixels and $1000 worth of PC. But to each his own :-)
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#46 - 2013-01-06 05:39:06 UTC
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:


[you're looking at $4000 of hardware. tablet can't provide this, and I have a feeling you overpaid http://imgur.com/a/Ii7Q1


Hmm... looks to me like $3000 worth of pixels and $1000 worth of PC. But to each his own :-)


that's a grand in video cards alone, brah
Nex apparatu5
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#47 - 2013-01-06 05:44:15 UTC
Can we stop pretending Linux will ever be a serious competitor in the OS market already?
Robertina Bering
Doomheim
#48 - 2013-01-06 05:46:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Robertina Bering
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
The PC is BECOMING obsolete.


I've heard these words for decades.

Ageck, are you a game developer? What's your occupation? What makes you think that Valve's opinion is so important? Have you heard something from Activision? EA? Maybe -- omg -- Zynga? No? As i thought.

I don't wanna insult you. But as a game developer i can't see any sense in your thoughts.
Portable devices are just... another market segment. That's all.
Ageck Kalenia
Development Holdings
#49 - 2013-01-06 05:47:21 UTC
Glathull wrote:
There are reasonable conclusions that can be drawn from the mobile data that we have. We can tell that people really like surfing the web on iPads and Android phones. We can tell that only a very small number of people give a flying fucknut about flash. We can tell that if you give a user an easier and simpler way to do something, the user will take that option.

You are suggesting that everything will eventually be simpler and easier to the point that "there's an app for that." This is not the case. Some things will never be a better user experience on a tablet than they are with a desktop or laptop. Like, for example, developing the software that runs on tablets on phones.

Regardless of my use or yours individually, I can guarantee you one thing: the more apps are being made for mobile devices, the more traditional PCs are being sold to build them with. We may get to a place where it's only devs and nerds and idiots like me who buy desktops, but that class of people is growing at the same rate as the apps that are being created. I don't want to talk about professions where desktops and laptops are a necessity for certain purposes. I don't have data on that. But I bet it's an even bigger market than the app developer market.


It's an interesting perspective. But as I recall, the apps and websites for PCs were all developed on PCs, not mainframes.

Take a look a some of the new hybrid smartphone/tablet/docking desktop designs being floated today, and you will soon realize it's perfectly sane and possible to develop for Android using Android. You could one day carry your entire digital existence in one cellphone clipped to your belt, and many will choose to do exactly that.

The market for computers in the next decade lies in the developing world, where people demand function and value. They have lower incomes and zero appetite for buying a large, heavy PC when a mobile device will meet all their needs.

Again, I'm not saying the PC will go completely away. But it is dead, at least to consumers and everyday users.
Ageck Kalenia
Development Holdings
#50 - 2013-01-06 05:49:47 UTC
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
Can we stop pretending Linux will ever be a serious competitor in the OS market already?


Linux is already the world's most popular OS, thanks largely to Google/Android. That ship already sailed. Linux doesn't need to dominate the PC market, because PCs will no longer matter to anyone.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2013-01-06 05:51:34 UTC
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
For the last time, it is not about "gimmicks". It is about what is coming, what is already here, and what is not going away.

For most of us, our computer is the most expensive electronic gadget we will ever purchase. We buy them infrequently, research the heck out of what we buy, and budget for them carefully.

What I am saying is that within five years the traditional PC platform will no longer exist, except as a hobby/enthusiast platform. There will no longer be enough users willing to spend the money for increasingly rare and exotic computers and computer parts to keep a game the size of EVE in business.

It's not about what we prefer or don't. It's about where consumer electronics are already headed, who is along for the ride, and who will lose out.


What you are saying is wrong. The traditional PC platform, or laptop or whatever, with physical keyboard and peripherals, is irreplaceable for many people. For me.... I'm not about to sit down and write a 10,000 word research report on a damn tablet. The traditional PC platform is irreplaceable because of it's baseline function, and FYI, everything else is just a gimmick, because nobody really needs it for anything beyond what a PC can do.

And can we stop pretending that Linux is meant to be a competitor? This mentality is really kinda silly. I dual boot Linux Mint 13 and Windows 7 at the moment. Everything that's bad about windows is good in Linux, and everything that's bad about linux is good in windows. They're like peanut butter and jam - stop trying to pretend they are contrary to one another and start trying to understand how they actually complement one another.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

S1euth
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#52 - 2013-01-06 05:52:31 UTC
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
S1euth wrote:
Two years ago at Fanfest I watched a Nvidia developer play eve on a Tablet. CCP seems to have known about the emergence of tablets two years before the OP became concerned.


I call bull on the so-called Fanfest "demo".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaT9Z2zxPu0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Start at 48:50.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2013-01-06 05:54:08 UTC
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
Can we stop pretending Linux will ever be a serious competitor in the OS market already?


Linux is already the world's most popular OS, thanks largely to Google/Android. That ship already sailed. Linux doesn't need to dominate the PC market, because PCs will no longer matter to anyone.


Android is not linux, google is not linux. Linux is something else entirely. I think you're putting too much stock in statistics, and not enough in actually evaluating them. And the last I checked, the only people really pushing this "PCs will be obsolete" nonsense is Google Execs trying to push more tablets

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#54 - 2013-01-06 05:54:21 UTC
here's how else I know the tablet EVE thing isn't so great--

I played EVE on my Wacom Cintiq; the art tablet with the LED display and pen input...

even with the accuracy of a pinpoint pen stylus, it's faster with a mouse and keyboard shortcuts.
Ageck Kalenia
Development Holdings
#55 - 2013-01-06 05:56:47 UTC
Robertina Bering wrote:
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
The PC is BECOMING obsolete.


I've heard these words for decades.

Ageck, are you game developer? What's your occupation? What makes you think that Valve's opinion is so important? Have you heard something from Activision? EA? Maybe -- omg -- Zynga? No? As i thought.

I don't wanna insult you. But as a game developer i can't see any sense in your thoughts.
Portable devices are just... another market segment. That's all.


I don't work in IT.. I'm just an enthusiast and lifestyle gamer. :-)

Are you seriously trying to tell me Valve's opinion isn't important? Steam is iTunes for games. Activision is content to let them have that position. EA is just being ******** by forcing Origin on gamers who want to kill them. Zynga can't keep their own stock out of the crapper.

And portable devices are the DOMINANT market segment now. I dislike Angry Birds as much as anyone else here, but it can't be denied that more games get played on Android and iOS than any other platforms.

I'm happy to see EVE development for PC continue. But it will be less and less important and the world moves on to better things.
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#56 - 2013-01-06 05:57:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Glathull
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
Can we stop pretending Linux will ever be a serious competitor in the OS market already?


Linux is already the world's most popular OS, thanks largely to Google/Android. That ship already sailed. Linux doesn't need to dominate the PC market, because PCs will no longer matter to anyone.



Well, what it can't do is make money. That's kind of a bad thing for a technology.

But here's a fun twist: Combine all linux, android, and all macOS devices and you can quite easily say that *nix has taken over all of the world's computing. By a huge margin.

Do you see what I did there? I aggregated a bunch of unrelated technologies into a single group and claimed that has already made other technologies irrelevant. That's what you're doing, and it's stupid. So you should stop. Or write articles that get aggregated by Google News. You could have a future there.

Sir, thou hath engaged me in an excellent game of troll and trickethed me into having had to pretend I was engageningeth in a serious discussion. Well played. 10/10. And I hope to see you soon in a spaceship.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon

Ageck Kalenia
Development Holdings
#57 - 2013-01-06 06:04:54 UTC
S1euth wrote:
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
S1euth wrote:
Two years ago at Fanfest I watched a Nvidia developer play eve on a Tablet. CCP seems to have known about the emergence of tablets two years before the OP became concerned.


I call bull on the so-called Fanfest "demo".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaT9Z2zxPu0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Start at 48:50.


Seen it long ago. It's faked.

Either that or CCP scrapped the initiative shortly thereafter. You'll recall shortly thereafter was the $70 monocle fiasco, and CCP pulled all hands on deck to placate angry players. This project no longer exists... you can count on it.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2013-01-06 06:07:11 UTC
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
S1euth wrote:
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
S1euth wrote:
Two years ago at Fanfest I watched a Nvidia developer play eve on a Tablet. CCP seems to have known about the emergence of tablets two years before the OP became concerned.


I call bull on the so-called Fanfest "demo".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaT9Z2zxPu0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Start at 48:50.


Seen it long ago. It's faked.

Either that or CCP scrapped the initiative shortly thereafter. You'll recall shortly thereafter was the $70 monocle fiasco, and CCP pulled all hands on deck to placate angry players. This project no longer exists... you can count on it.


It sounds like you really want to believe what you're saying, and there's a bit of cognitive dissonance at work when you see evidence to the contrary, and so to solve that uneasy feeling that you might be wrong, you dismiss the evidence as "faked".

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Robertina Bering
Doomheim
#59 - 2013-01-06 06:24:24 UTC
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
I don't work in IT.. I'm just an enthusiast and lifestyle gamer. :-)


Ah, that explains everything...
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#60 - 2013-01-06 06:28:35 UTC
Robertina Bering wrote:
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
I don't work in IT.. I'm just an enthusiast and lifestyle gamer. :-)


Ah, that explains everything...



Madame, thou hast spoken well and truly. Trolled, we all are. By a miscreant and a devil.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon