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Intergalactic Summit

 
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[-WHG-] Public Announcement

Author
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#21 - 2013-01-04 22:33:22 UTC
Vikarion wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
It is difficult to watch this.

Is there no one in the State who will speak for these people? No one who will call this for what it is?

I understand that as the "enemy" this well be seen as an attack, it is not.

But when people are moved to an undisclosed location, perhaps against their will, not allowed to leave and not permitted to communicate to the outside. Isn't that imprisonment?

I know the concepts of guilt and innocence in the State of late are a bit... well.

I suppose nothing assures the "realization of the New Meritocracy", like shutting up the voices of moderation. After all peace is the enemy isn't it.


Audits of capsuleer corporations cannot be carried out unless the capsuleer corporation requests them. Capsuleers cannot be detained by the Empires legally unless CONCORD gives them permission.

Therefore, we aren't going to try to "save" WHG from what they are going through voluntarily.

Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:


1. A transfer of non-essential front-line, administrative and supply personnel from current duty posts to rest and recuperation facilities located within enclave territory of Kaalakiota Corporation for the duration of current personnel auditing of the Wiyrkomi Honor Guard.

Thank you for the clarification Msr. Vikarion, its good to know that this "transfer of non-essential front-line, administrative and supply personnel" was completely voluntary.
Vikarion
Doomheim
#22 - 2013-01-04 22:42:30 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
Thank you for the clarification Msr. Vikarion, its good to know that this "transfer of non-essential front-line, administrative and supply personnel" was completely voluntary.


Voluntary on the part of the capsuleers, who employ the baseliners under them. If you believe that the baseliners are being treated unfairly - something which you have no evidence of, I might add - then your argument is with every member of WHG, not just the leadership.

Of course, you have neither place nor privilege to interfere or even comprehend the workings of the State, but, sadly, that has never stopped most Gallenteans from trying to tell every single other entity of the cluster how they should be living. I think I can speak for the rest of the cluster when I suggest that you might consider removing your officious and self-righteous nose from the business of others.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#23 - 2013-01-04 22:46:06 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
Thank you for the clarification Msr. Vikarion, its good to know that this "transfer of non-essential front-line, administrative and supply personnel" was completely voluntary.


If any individual doesn't want to participate they can always quit and seek new employment, sir. This of course being moderated by the specific terms of their work contracts, but these typically have an accessable escape clause.

You too eagerly paint us the villains, sir.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#24 - 2013-01-04 23:37:29 UTC  |  Edited by: James Syagrius
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Mr. Syagrius,
All actions undertaken so far have been conducted with best interests, safety, security and well-being of Wiyrkomi Honor Guard employees. Imprisonment is a misnomer in this situation for no criminal conduct has occurred nor has judgement been passed by a corporate or State tribunal. The current situation is nothing more than seeking to secure the safety of personnel against threat of attack by armed groups which may, or may not have been involved in the attempt on the life of the Executor, whilst maintaining a communications policy designed to prevent misunderstandings and miscommunication occurring in the period of auditing.

Ma'dame Gasakaarin.

Thank you for your reply, I am glad you managed to do so without "pandering" to the larger cluster.

I must however respectfully disagree.

Confining individuals, especially if they aren't suspected of criminal conduct, is what then. Involuntary protective custody? Call a kitten a biscuit if you like, its still a kitten.

I was unaware the lawlessness was so pervasive in he State that such "protective" measures are necessary.

Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Being able to remain paid while living in a well appointed facility with a wide range of leisure and personal activities available could hardly be considered a harsh sentence, if a sentence had been passed at all.

A person is forced to stop work, coerced into confinement without charge, then the individuals responsible for the confinement congratulate themselves paying them. How very benevolent.

Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Now, I feel the need to express the sentiment that the Caldari State is not the Gallente Federation and our laws differ. The right for a corporation to undertake necessary actions in its own interests is still both highly regarded and respected in the State, and the matter at hand is one in which the stakeholders of the Wiyrkomi Honor Guard believe ensuring compliance with the directives of the SLT and CPD to be in the best interests of their company -- a sentiment which I share.

In this we agree, the State is most certainly not the Federation.

In Amarr slavery is "legal", its even considered moral, does that make it right or good? Please don't be intellectually dishonest and use the flawed concept of moral relevance to defend this pogrom.

Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
As such, in the pursuit of corporate interests in the State, I am guided by the laws and dictates of the State in the prosecution of my tasks and so long as I continue to do so then recriminations are unlikely.

To put matters more succinctly:

I will carry out my tasks as required by the laws and protocols of the Caldari State and not by the pandering platitudes of Federal opinions.

Personally I have found that a little pandering often leads to good results. But then I am a trader and not a jail keeper. It is informative to see demonstrated the States high regard for the individual liberty of their citizens... excuse me employees.

But lets be honest. Decent in the State is on the rise, and Heth knows his days are numbered. But power falls hard, especially when its absolute.

Executor Heth needs the war, and fear is his friend. This purge is about nothing more.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#25 - 2013-01-04 23:46:48 UTC
Vikarion wrote:
I think I can speak for the rest of the cluster when I suggest that you might consider removing your officious and self-righteous nose from the business of others.


Injustice and individual liberty is everyone business.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#26 - 2013-01-04 23:48:48 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
You too eagerly paint us the villains, sir.

Perhaps so Ma'dame I have often been wrong.
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#27 - 2013-01-04 23:59:07 UTC
Syagrius,


Your words might have more gravitas if you weren't fighting in the war you've condemned five minutes ago. I suggest taking a sip of your own medicine first before prescribing it to everyone unable to run away quick enough.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.

Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#28 - 2013-01-05 00:04:48 UTC
Mr. Syagrius,

With all do respect, do corporations within the Federation's borders withhold from internal audits of personnel and goods? do they not move people around as they see fit when the need arises? I even remember not too long ago a certain gaff within the Federation involving a certain former President and a failed nationalization of the Federal Arms Industry...

The capsuleers, along with combative and non combative fleet/station/planetary personnel, would have signed contracts acknowledging stipulations, rules, regulations and terms of employment when they entered the service of the Wiyrkomi Honor Guard and the Kaalakiota Corporation. While I have not reviewed Kaalakiota and Wiyrkomi employment contracts, this is the State, and no one within Caldari borders would have signed on without knowledge of what they were expected to do and what rights the corporation had over them through accepting employment.

Even then, these people are expected to do a job, for high pay most likely, and not to divulge corporate or security secrets. Going on about 'rights' is fair game when their being violated, but the fact remains that the people being affected by this audit are corporate employees who either signed on with full knowledge of what could happen, or didn't bother to read the fine print in which they themselves are at fault, not the corporation.

Those who are so quick to sign away their 'freedoms' do not deserve them.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#29 - 2013-01-05 02:10:53 UTC
I would like to state for the record that I willingly submitted to the inquest of my own free will and that at no time were my rights as a Citizen of the State infringed.

It is a privilige to aid the CPD in their duties.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#30 - 2013-01-05 02:30:30 UTC
Desiderya wrote:
Syagrius,


Your words might have more gravitas if you weren't fighting in the war you've condemned five minutes ago. I suggest taking a sip of your own medicine first before prescribing it to everyone unable to run away quick enough.

An honest assessment Desiderya, if I had indeed condemned the war. I am a participant now true.

Ironicly it was pointed out to me by a Caldari in the State, that as I had no "skin in the game", I had no right to speak. That I was a coward and a hypocritical one at that. So yes, I have joined the war, what little good it may provide.

I still believe the war is a terrible waste. That doesn't mean I want the State to win. There are many fair minded people in the Federation that want this war to end on honorable terms for both sides. That doesn't mean we will sit ideally by while you wage it.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#31 - 2013-01-05 02:47:24 UTC
Simon Louvaki wrote:
Mr. Syagrius,
With all do respect, do corporations within the Federation's borders withhold from internal audits of personnel and goods? do they not move people around as they see fit when the need arises? I even remember not too long ago a certain gaff within the Federation involving a certain former President and a failed nationalization of the Federal Arms Industry...

Those who are so quick to sign away their 'freedoms' do not deserve them.

With all do respect. ~smiles~ Indeed.

Msr. Louvaki.

I think you are someone I would like to meet.

You are correct, contracts are important and people should honor their obligations. But in this case what was their choice? Yes in the Federation there are audits, but rarely do these audits involve carting everyone off to undisclosed locations. Yes there was an attempt at nationalization, even in a time of war it failed, as it should have.
Simon Louvaki wrote:
Those who are so quick to sign away their 'freedoms' do not deserve them.

That sir is the one wrong thing you said. A hungry man trying to feed his family will "sign" anything. Hunger knows no politics. Perhaps we should discuss exploitation?
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#32 - 2013-01-05 02:51:39 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I would like to state for the record that I willingly submitted to the inquest of my own free will and that at no time were my rights as a Citizen of the State infringed.

It is a privilige to aid the CPD in their duties.


One wonders why "they" didn't redact this. But still, Msr. Tuulinen is an honorable man, from what I can ascertain. So I will take him at his word. I continue to hope that people with fewer choices are of the same opinion.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#33 - 2013-01-05 03:05:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Katrina Oniseki
I'd like to remind outsiders that this does not worry or surprise anybody in the Caldari State for a very simple reason - it's not something to worry about.

I realize the concepts at play here are strange to some of you, but it could best be described as the equivalent of 'administrative leave'. The employees being transferred are likely still receiving their contracted salary, and while removal from their normal lives certainly seems strange... it's not so bad. These people are enjoying the comforts of home during the audit, and have little to fear.

WHG isn't snatching people in the night with black sacks over their head. So, please... let's not jump to conclusions.

Katrina Oniseki

Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#34 - 2013-01-05 03:07:00 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
Simon Louvaki wrote:
Mr. Syagrius,
With all do respect, do corporations within the Federation's borders withhold from internal audits of personnel and goods? do they not move people around as they see fit when the need arises? I even remember not too long ago a certain gaff within the Federation involving a certain former President and a failed nationalization of the Federal Arms Industry...

Those who are so quick to sign away their 'freedoms' do not deserve them.

With all do respect. ~smiles~ Indeed.

Msr. Louvaki.

I think you are someone I would like to meet.

You are correct, contracts are important and people should honor their obligations. But in this case what was their choice? Yes in the Federation there are audits, but rarely do these audits involve carting everyone off to undisclosed locations. Yes there was an attempt at nationalization, even in a time of war it failed, as it should have.


I think our meeting could bear interesting fruit and would be honored at the chance.

On the topic at hand: In this case, a public announcement involving an internal audit of the militant branch of the Kaalakiota Corporation [-WHG-], its not really unusual that the location of personnel is being kept secret. Its usually not very prudent to divulge the location of military personnel and likely craft/stations. This being a time of uneasiness and war makes it all the more justifiable. As for weather they were willing to go or not, its really not their choice, anymore than its the choice of any employee of a corporate firm (or military outfit) to go where their commanded.

James Syagrius wrote:

Simon Louvaki wrote:
Those who are so quick to sign away their 'freedoms' do not deserve them.

That sir is the one wrong thing you said. A hungry man trying to feed his family will "sign" anything. Hunger knows no politics. Perhaps we should discuss exploitation?


A hungry man who signs over the fate of not only himself, but that of his family without reading the contract is a fool. Hunger may know no politics, but once that hunger is slated the body and mind pay the price of what could have been a quick fix. Exploitation is ripe in the State, I don't think anyone will deny that, its simply the way things are, but its something that transcends borders and race and touches even the Federation. Its business, and I don't say that in admiration.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb

Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#35 - 2013-01-05 09:03:34 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:

Ironicly it was pointed out to me by a Caldari in the State, that as I had no "skin in the game", I had no right to speak. That I was a coward and a hypocritical one at that. So yes, I have joined the war, what little good it may provide.

I still believe the war is a terrible waste. That doesn't mean I want the State to win. There are many fair minded people in the Federation that want this war to end on honorable terms for both sides. That doesn't mean we will sit ideally by while you wage it.


If only you would listen more often to what the Caldari say.
I'd like to point out, however, that it is quite a stretch at this point in time to claim that you've moved into active service to make sure the federation doesn't lose. It looks far more like profiteering to me.

But this is not the topic of this discussion.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.

James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#36 - 2013-01-05 22:47:51 UTC
Its good to see they are no longer redacting you. If ever they were in the first place.
Desiderya wrote:
If only you would listen more often to what the Caldari say.

Dialogue is important. Advisories should be listened to. At some point its less about what is said than done. You might consider taking your own advice.
Desiderya wrote:
I'd like to point out, however, that it is quite a stretch at this point in time to claim that you've moved into active service to make sure the federation doesn't lose. It looks far more like profiteering to me.

You make profiteering sound absolutely undesirable. Advancing ones goals is to be expected. In fact I anticipate loosing capital in this endeavor considering the disruption to trade. I doubt my contribution to the war, as a direct participant, will even be noticed. But I will accept your assessment as to "profiteering", after all your an exert.
Desiderya wrote:
But this is not the topic of this discussion.

I agree and I do apologize if outside comments disrupted your desired echo chamber. I often forget how dangerous dialogue is to the State. My original comment was made out of concern for peoples well being. People whose goals I may oppose, but whose person I respect.

I will leave you with two thoughts that linger. If it isn't topic of the discussion, why respond, other than have the last jab. If you want your affairs "ignored" buy the greater cluster, why post the details of them in a forum that grantees diverse comment.

I will of course refrain from further comment.
Vikarion
Doomheim
#37 - 2013-01-05 23:18:15 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
I agree and I do apologize if outside comments disrupted your desired echo chamber. I often forget how dangerous dialogue is to the State. My original comment was made out of concern for peoples well being. People whose goals I may oppose, but whose person I respect.

I will leave you with two thoughts that linger. If it isn't topic of the discussion, why respond, other than have the last jab. If you want your affairs "ignored" buy the greater cluster, why post the details of them in a forum that grantees diverse comment.

I will of course refrain from further comment.


Truly pathetic. She makes an offhand comment regarding an ancillary matter, and you extrapolate that this is evidence that the State cannot withstand dialogue. Besides being a complete non sequitur, there's quite a lot of evidence for the contrary.

Your comment was not made out of concern, it was made because you were looking for an opportunity to snipe at a State loyalist corporation, which, if one examines your history, composes much of your correspondence. You are one of those Gallenteans who will not be happy until everyone else in the cluster thinks like you, speaks like you, and acts like you, a situation which you will call "individual freedom" and "liberty".

What fun.

WHG desired an audit and submitted to one. Its employees freely agreed to one. If one can't make decisions over one's own fate, I'm not sure what does qualify as "freedom", but apparently for those stricken with missionary zeal for the Federation, "freedom" instead means only the ability to accept an option if they agree that it is the right one. But, nonetheless, we all know CONCORD rules, and we all know that WHG could not be audited if it did not wish to be.

This thread isn't over, so I don't know why you think that her post is an attempt at the "last jab". Perhaps you believe that once your august personage has spoken, all further conversation is futile. There are some people, incidentally, that I can disagree with but still enjoy. People with your combination of self-righteous arrogance and unjustifiable certainty, on the other hand, are a pleasure to hate.

I shall look forward to finding and killing you.
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#38 - 2013-01-06 22:10:47 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:

At some point its less about what is said than done. You might consider taking your own advice.



I agree. You'll stick to your words, I'll stick to deeds.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.

Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#39 - 2013-01-12 04:21:32 UTC
Nonni Solar System
Kaalakiota Corporation Orbital -- Nonni III/M I
0124 Hours 12 January YC 115
Memorandum: Re: Wiyrkomi Honor Guard Personnel Audit
Clearance: Public Dissemination

Message As Follows:

1. As regards current personnel audits of Wiyrkomi Honor Guard employee and staff have met compliance with the directives of the State Loyalty Tribunal and Caldari Providence Directorate. Personnel will begin rotations back into their duty posts as of 14 January YC 115 and are to be commended for their voluntary consent to auditing protocols and professional conduct during their period spent in corporate employee rest and recuperation facilities.

2. Caveat to Paragraph 1 will apply to five hundred and thirty four (534) staff of Wiyrkomi Honor Guard hired during the tenure of former Chief Executive Officer Malcolm Khross. These personnel shall remain within Kaalakiota corporate facilities for further auditing.

3. Corporate non-disclosure agreements have been signed by all employees and staff of the Wiyrkomi Honor Guard leaving Kaalakiota corporate facilities in order to return to active duty. These agreements cover non-disclosure over the following:

a) Information pertaining to auditing procedures and methodologies used by corporate auditors.

b) Information on any discussions which may or may not have taken place between employees and corporate auditors.

c) Information regarding corporate rest and recuperation facilities.

d) Information regarding corporate security units tasked with the protection of facilities outlined in 3. c)

Breach of this non-disclosure agreement will be considered an act of non-compliance with the directives of the State Loyalty Tribunal and Caldari Providence Directorate which will carry with it disciplinary action deemed fit and suitable by the aforementioned legal bodies.

Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Commissar For Internal Affairs (Temp.)
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Dex Nederland
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
The Fourth District
#40 - 2013-01-12 06:05:52 UTC
Simple question:

Quote:
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard is being undertaken in order to ensure effective compliance with the directives of the State Loyalty Tribunal and Caldari Providence Directorate.


By complying with these directives, what did WHG gain?