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NBSI Nullsec = Fail

First post
Author
Skex Relbore
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#121 - 2013-01-04 21:54:04 UTC
Ocih wrote:
Skex Relbore wrote:


Long rant about other people





Rocks and glass houses.
The only alliance to come out of the NC collapse with their SOV was Lawn.



Do you actually have a point? I wasn't a part of Lawn when it was a part of the NC so I could really give a damn about what happened then. That's part of life, empires rise empires fall. Hell the last two alliances I was a part of managed to get themselves commisarried out of the cluster we were just lucky/good enough to see the writing on the wall and get out ahead of the drama.

Doesn't change my point one bit. Lawn was smart enough to make common cause with friends who were big enough to help them survive. That's the way this game works, make friends be successful, be a selfish anti-social dimwitt and fail, then cry about it on the forums.

Ocih
Space Mermaids
#122 - 2013-01-04 21:57:28 UTC
Cameron Cahill wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
So the case was made for NRDS.

People rushed in making the case for NBSI.


NRDS is a failure, say those who shoot anything that is not blue.


So, how's that empty and boring nullsec working out for ya?



Fine as everyone that actually lives in null knows its not empty.


This is pretty hard to deny. You don't even need to live there. Just look at the rat kills and system jumps on the map. None of it is "empty".

Most High sec people just ask why it is they are the ones getting beat over the back with the nerf bat every time one of CCP's spread sheets don't look all tidy and proper.
Jianna Kring
Glimmer Rats
#123 - 2013-01-04 22:02:22 UTC
So.forgive any randomness but I'm ill and full of cough medicine but I believe I have had an epiphany. Thereason that nbsinullseccers are so anti social is so they can make isk in safety so they can pvp. The reason they want highsec nerved is so that they are the only ones with this advantage having worked for it.
If they want hIgh sec income nerved then in the interest of games balance they should run a more open and welcoming system.
But eve was never designed to be balanced so people should ALL htfu and do whatever makes the game fun for them if they can
Skex Relbore
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#124 - 2013-01-04 22:03:20 UTC
Ocih wrote:
Cameron Cahill wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
So the case was made for NRDS.

People rushed in making the case for NBSI.


NRDS is a failure, say those who shoot anything that is not blue.


So, how's that empty and boring nullsec working out for ya?



Fine as everyone that actually lives in null knows its not empty.


This is pretty hard to deny. You don't even need to live there. Just look at the rat kills and system jumps on the map. None of it is "empty".

Most High sec people just ask why it is they are the ones getting beat over the back with the nerf bat every time one of CCP's spread sheets don't look all tidy and proper.


I blame it on the same cry babies who come up with such brilliance as suggesting that the way to fix null is to emulate people who chose to role play racists.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2013-01-04 22:05:31 UTC
Ocih wrote:
This is pretty hard to deny. You don't even need to live there. Just look at the rat kills and system jumps on the map. None of it is "empty".

Look at the map, figure out which percentage of it has >10 people in it.

Ocih wrote:
Most High sec people just ask why it is they are the ones getting beat over the back with the nerf bat every time one of CCP's spread sheets don't look all tidy and proper.

As opposed to nullsec, which got thoroughly pissed on fun-wise around dominion and has been hit with nerfbat after nerfbat to the point where most people spend their off-PVP time in hisec, lowsec, WHs etc instead?

Yeah, about that...

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#126 - 2013-01-04 22:10:02 UTC
Well if you **** up a section of the sandbox, people will stay away from that section. And yet you wonder why no one wants to roll around in it with you? Straight
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#127 - 2013-01-04 22:10:27 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Ocih wrote:
Most High sec people just ask why it is they are the ones getting beat over the back with the nerf bat every time one of CCP's spread sheets don't look all tidy and proper.

As opposed to nullsec, which got thoroughly pissed on fun-wise around dominion and has been hit with nerfbat after nerfbat to the point where most people spend their off-PVP time in hisec, lowsec, WHs etc instead?

Yeah, about that...

It was a buff to the "structure-shooting playstyle". Take for example, our very own DaBigRedBoat

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#128 - 2013-01-04 22:11:32 UTC
NRDS - Takes self control and has lots of Issues cause you have to constantly update standings which means alot of micro management and keeping people in line and flat out it can get ugly.

NBSI - Is simple for those who don't want to think or are not capable of it, it is also a lot simpler to maintain and you don't have to micro manage it.

Both have good points and bad.
And besides null can do whatever they want.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#129 - 2013-01-04 22:12:57 UTC
Jianna Kring wrote:
So.forgive any randomness but I'm ill and full of cough medicine but I believe I have had an epiphany. Thereason that nbsinullseccers are so anti social is so they can make isk in safety so they can pvp.
Anti-social? We're the most social players in EVE. You have to be in order to survive in 0.0, which is full of goals and objectives that can only be achieved by working together. If anyone is anti-social, it's the guy running to the forums because he's out of ideas on how to break into 0.0 by himself.

Quote:
If they want hIgh sec income nerved then in the interest of games balance they should run a more open and welcoming system. But eve was never designed to be balanced so people should ALL htfu and do whatever makes the game fun for them if they can
Actually, what we want is fiscal incentives to bring in industrialists/carebears. As of now they are dead weight and ganker lures, which is the real lesson you can take from NRDS.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#130 - 2013-01-04 22:13:33 UTC
Skex Relbore wrote:
Ocih wrote:
Cameron Cahill wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
So the case was made for NRDS.

People rushed in making the case for NBSI.


NRDS is a failure, say those who shoot anything that is not blue.


So, how's that empty and boring nullsec working out for ya?



Fine as everyone that actually lives in null knows its not empty.


This is pretty hard to deny. You don't even need to live there. Just look at the rat kills and system jumps on the map. None of it is "empty".

Most High sec people just ask why it is they are the ones getting beat over the back with the nerf bat every time one of CCP's spread sheets don't look all tidy and proper.


I blame it on the same cry babies who come up with such brilliance as suggesting that the way to fix null is to emulate people who chose to role play racists.


Again with the baseless snipes.
That's what got you in to this argument. Good thing those Lawn guys before you weren't so eager to shitpost on GD or you wouldn't have any space to be bragging about.

Get back on the porch, Son.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#131 - 2013-01-04 22:14:39 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
NRDS - Takes self control and has lots of Issues cause you have to constantly update standings which means alot of micro management and keeping people in line and flat out it can get ugly.

NBSI - Is simple for those who don't want to think or are not capable of it, it is also a lot simpler to maintain and you don't have to micro manage it.

Both have good points and bad.
how come your list only has bad points for NRDS and good points for NBSI then?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#132 - 2013-01-04 22:14:44 UTC
Jianna Kring wrote:
So.forgive any randomness but I'm ill and full of cough medicine but I believe I have had an epiphany. Thereason that nbsinullseccers are so anti social is so they can make isk in safety so they can pvp. The reason they want highsec nerved is so that they are the only ones with this advantage having worked for it.
If they want hIgh sec income nerved then in the interest of games balance they should run a more open and welcoming system.
But eve was never designed to be balanced so people should ALL htfu and do whatever makes the game fun for them if they can


I suggest getting some actual experience of 0.0 before making huge generalisations about it.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Ocih
Space Mermaids
#133 - 2013-01-04 22:20:21 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Ocih wrote:
This is pretty hard to deny. You don't even need to live there. Just look at the rat kills and system jumps on the map. None of it is "empty".

Look at the map, figure out which percentage of it has >10 people in it.

Ocih wrote:
Most High sec people just ask why it is they are the ones getting beat over the back with the nerf bat every time one of CCP's spread sheets don't look all tidy and proper.

As opposed to nullsec, which got thoroughly pissed on fun-wise around dominion and has been hit with nerfbat after nerfbat to the point where most people spend their off-PVP time in hisec, lowsec, WHs etc instead?

Yeah, about that...


I kicked and screamed when Null got nerfed too and I wasn't even in Null at the time.

That's the flaw to NBSI.
Everyone is your enemy, even when they aren't. I don't need to be NBSI. I don't need to look for a fight behind every gate. I can let the neut warp away. I still get more fights than I can handle. Go figure.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#134 - 2013-01-04 22:21:58 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Jianna Kring wrote:
So.forgive any randomness but I'm ill and full of cough medicine but I believe I have had an epiphany. Thereason that nbsinullseccers are so anti social is so they can make isk in safety so they can pvp. The reason they want highsec nerved is so that they are the only ones with this advantage having worked for it.
If they want hIgh sec income nerved then in the interest of games balance they should run a more open and welcoming system.
But eve was never designed to be balanced so people should ALL htfu and do whatever makes the game fun for them if they can


I suggest getting some actual experience of 0.0 before making huge generalisations about it.

Shooting structures is a great way to get engaged with the Sovereignty system that CCP has graciously provided us.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

TharOkha
0asis Group
#135 - 2013-01-04 22:27:47 UTC
Olleybear wrote:
Diablo Ex wrote:
There would be more folks moving into Nullsec if the Sov Holders would simply set NRDS rules in their space.

Here is something you may not have thought of.

Lets say someone likes your NRDS space and decides they want your space for their own group. Their group can get safely into your space without a single shot fired because of NRDS. Their group will only open fire once they are setup to do the most damage as quickly as possible. Once they are established and shooting everything that moves in your space, your group is going to have a tougher time getting them out of your space.

NRDS policy gets the people following that policy killed. This is the same no matter if its Null or Low.



So thats why you want to nerf Hisec..... Straight
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#136 - 2013-01-04 22:28:28 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Well if you **** up a section of the sandbox, people will stay away from that section. And yet you wonder why no one wants to roll around in it with you? Straight

Nullsec doesn't have a problem with the number of people in it, it has a problem with the number of active people in it. This has nothing to do with the nullsec residents, and everything to do with both the game mechanics CCP have implemented in nullsec, and the balance between nullsec and hisec.

Ocih wrote:
That's the flaw to NBSI.
Everyone is your enemy, even when they aren't. I don't need to be NBSI. I don't need to look for a fight behind every gate. I can let the neut warp away. I still get more fights than I can handle. Go figure.

No, that's not a flaw of NBSI, that's the reality of a PVP game.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#137 - 2013-01-04 22:31:12 UTC
TharOkha wrote:
So thats why you want to nerf Hisec..... Straight

If you can think up ways to make nullsec capable of doing bottom up financing so alliances would have a vested interest in making sure its own space was used in preference to hisec, which was implementable without ruining the economy or anything similar, cough it up.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

TharOkha
0asis Group
#138 - 2013-01-04 22:51:03 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Lord Zim wrote:
TharOkha wrote:
So thats why you want to nerf Hisec..... Straight

If you can think up ways to make nullsec capable of doing bottom up financing so alliances would have a vested interest in making sure its own space was used in preference to hisec, which was implementable without ruining the economy or anything similar, cough it up.


No dude. im just pointing at what is wrong with null. Instead of total rework of null mechanic, nullbears demand nerf to hisec. im just saying that null is totaly FUBAR, and no nerf to hisec make it better. 1day-spyalts, super-blobs, NBSI etc, thats the problem of null, because it is best way of using game mechanics.
Skex Relbore
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2013-01-04 22:54:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Skex Relbore
Ocih wrote:
Skex Relbore wrote:
Ocih wrote:
Cameron Cahill wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
So the case was made for NRDS.

People rushed in making the case for NBSI.


NRDS is a failure, say those who shoot anything that is not blue.


So, how's that empty and boring nullsec working out for ya?



Fine as everyone that actually lives in null knows its not empty.


This is pretty hard to deny. You don't even need to live there. Just look at the rat kills and system jumps on the map. None of it is "empty".

Most High sec people just ask why it is they are the ones getting beat over the back with the nerf bat every time one of CCP's spread sheets don't look all tidy and proper.


I blame it on the same cry babies who come up with such brilliance as suggesting that the way to fix null is to emulate people who chose to role play racists.


Again with the baseless snipes.
That's what got you in to this argument. Good thing those Lawn guys before you weren't so eager to shitpost on GD or you wouldn't have any space to be bragging about.

Get back on the porch, Son.


I seriously have no idea what you are on. But it must be some potent herb because your posts make zero sense.

My argument is simple. NRDS gives all the initiative and combat advantage to outsiders rather than those who live in the space, While NBSI gives the locals a even shot at shooting first. That's why NRDS is fail and will never see widespread adoption outside of a group of people who were stupid enough to think that it would be a great basis for an alliance premised on racial supremacy (CVA) in fact back in my naive newbie days when I still had some thoughts about E-Honor I had actually looked at and dismissed CVA as an option because of the cognitive dissonance of a bunch of "racists" (yeah I know role-playing) and anti-piracy.

As far as it being a baseless snipe, I disagree. The OP has the exact same mindset as those who foolishly think that nerfing highsec will somehow drive people to low/null. If you were actually familiar with my posting history you'd know that I was never one to support such foolishness. It's that mindset that thinks that you can force someone to do something they find unpleasant for enjoyment.

The attitude that if one can't "hack it" at something in the game, that if others somehow manage to do something they can't then the game should be changed to accommodate their inadequacies. Be it the low sec gate camper crying because his fail crew couldn't kill a freighter in less than the minute it took it to despawn after the pilot discoed on a gate jump or the pirate crying about how level-4s should be moved to low sec so they could get access to those shinny mission ships (as if people would be taking their blinged out mission boats into low sec to get ganked) or the "small fleet" elite PVPer crying about blobs and NAPs/NIPs because he can only find fleets bigger than his own. The common thread is someone who is asking for a solution to a problem that doesn't actually exist. and who wants a special accommodation to make their own lives easier in by making someone else's more difficult.

You are trying to make this into a Null vs Highsec thread, but it's not. It's a smart people who understand the game and how it works vs whiny dimwits who can't figure out how to work within the existing system.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2013-01-04 22:59:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
TharOkha wrote:
No dude. im just pointing at what is wrong with null.

No, you're not. You're pointing out what you've decided is the problem with null, not what's actually the problem with null.

TharOkha wrote:
Instead of total rework of null mechanic, nullbears demand nerf to hisec.

Huh, funny, last I checked I demanded a complete sov system rework and a complete overhaul to how nullsec does industry. And then, in addition to that, I demand that hisec get a few adjustment because hisec is, industry-wise and in comparison to any other sec status, too powerful.

But I guess people in hisec can't fathom the idea that maybe, just maybe, paying 2k isk for a completely risk-free, non-interdictable way of making f.ex a maelstrom might be just a smidge on the low side.

TharOkha wrote:
im just saying that null is totaly FUBAR, and no nerf to hisec make it better.

You're right null is pretty ******, but you're wrong that changes to hisec won't make it better. Do a few pointed changes to hisec, and suddenly alliances in nullsec has some leeway in how much it can tax the usage of its own space.

TharOkha wrote:
1day-spyalts, super-blobs, NBSI etc, thats the problem of null, because it is best way of current mechanics.

None of these things are problems with nullsec.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat