These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

As BS really good?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Terza Torre
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2011-10-22 11:52:35 UTC
I'm not a pro for sure, but I'm playing eve every day since two yeasr now, and I still pose to me this question: are T1/T2 BS any good?

So far the only useful thing i found they can do better then, e.g. a T2 HAC, faction cruisers or any other decent cruiser level ship, is the combat in large fleet where the alpha strkes really matter and where the large shield or armor buffer can make some difference.

Apart from that they still seems to me very underpowered and mostly useless.
Some examples:

- PVE: they have larger radius than cruisers and much slower, even if their tank seems better on paper it is much worst, DPS seems higer too but only against BSs and only by a very small % compared to cruisers/BCs. A good fitted and skilled BC can do lev 4 mission at the same speed of any T1 BSs or even faster

- Plexing: I can tank solo up to lev 9 plexes with Loki or ishtar or broadsword, I were never been able to do that with any BSs even a faction fitted rattlesnake (for example) for the same reason above

- PVP: wihtout logi or large fleet you are slow, easier to target, and for you is very hard to hit enemy tackle unles u have frigate support, so you die first, faster and damage you do on enemy is minimnal


Overall BSs seems to me cluncky, slow, expensive and unflexible.
I'm not sure about T2 BSs and Black ops ones though.

Am I wrong or CCP should have a look at them?
TT
McMorrow
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2011-10-22 11:58:11 UTC
some of the things you listed in your post are what they are used for... Lvl 4s, Plexs etc... when a player can't afford a "Loki" or a HAC + fittings, or doesn't have the skills to support them flying a similar ship, the T1/T2 BS are what they use. a Raven for example, with minimal skills can do lvl 4s easily if fitted properly, a drake can do the same, but often needs more skills for the smaller ships to be as effective.

Two tears in a bucket...

Terza Torre
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2011-10-22 12:47:25 UTC
Man, even faction bs are not that good. A faction fitted Rattlesnake cost 800 mill at best and cant tank like an ishtar ???

With low skills T1 BS are even worst and their cost is very close to a T2 HAC

My 2 cents, TT
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-10-22 13:13:40 UTC
Not that real world comparisons always fit with a space game, but some of the things you describe remind me of real world uses for battleships. In that role they are usually limited, mostly to fleet battles and sieges.

That being said, I don't fully agree with your assessment.

A low SP gallente player, I was able to fit well into a dominix. I had good drone skills and a solid tank. I couldn't do lvl 4's in a myrmidon Without the extra bandwidth of the dominix I could not field the drones needed robe effective in 4's

I'm sure an Ishtar will work well also, but I am still training for one, as it takes far more training.
Orlacc
#5 - 2011-10-22 14:01:40 UTC
"A good fitted and skilled BC can do lev 4 mission at the same speed of any T1 BSs or even faster..."


Uh sure.....I will sell my Mach and Mael now.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#6 - 2011-10-22 14:39:23 UTC
OP sounds like hes flow only with a drake and nothing else Roll
Try a myrmidon and tell me it does lvl 4 missons faster than a domi or hurricane vs pest speed run for that matter.

BS have their place in many things, mostly because they are a hell a lot cheaper then your dead space pimped BC or HAC.
Songbird
#7 - 2011-10-22 16:47:45 UTC
damn trolls

I want a dislike button
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#8 - 2011-10-22 16:54:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Terza Torre wrote:
Man, even faction bs are not that good. A faction fitted Rattlesnake cost 800 mill at best and cant tank like an ishtar ???



Do what? A rattlesnake can solo tank some L5 missions. Sitting still. An ishtar dies to a couple of webs.

And I would love to see a battlecruiser out-dps a well fit battleship in a L4 mission....that just makes me laugh. A Machariel with autocannons can tank L4 missions while putting out over 1000dps at close-ish range, and still over 600 at ranges past 60km. And that's just with a standard T2 fitting. Many battlecruisers have trouble reaching 600dps period, and only a select few of them can actually apply any dps at 60km.

thhief ghabmoef
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2011-10-22 18:37:40 UTC
Songbird wrote:
damn trolls

I want a dislike button

+1

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Barbelo Valentinian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2011-10-22 20:43:39 UTC
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
An ishtar dies to a couple of webs.


Confirming this. I've just lost my second Ishtar to an L4 with webs when I wasn't paying attention. Need to stop this expensive habit :)

The thing is though that L4s in an Ishtar are just soooo much fun, proper PvE fun, and like the last time, I'd been on a long run of about 10 substantial L4s, having a blast, but like the last time, I just got overconfident and stopped paying close attention :(

So yeah, BS are still the best for L4s overall, you just have more of a buffer for those moments when you make a mistake. My Sentry Domi with decent T2 rails is reasonably fast, but I'm doing the Gal/Min crosstrain and looking forward to the big Mach eventually.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#11 - 2011-10-22 20:58:07 UTC
Hi, I pvp in megathronsBig smile
Sphit Ker
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2011-10-23 09:52:32 UTC
Talking PVP only. BS can be quite good but they are generally eclipsed by BCs and T2 cruisers. How things happen in space tends to favour sub BS hulls in almost every way almost every time. Mobility, applied DPS, ****** scan res etc. How things happen while ship spinning also favours sub BS hulls a good deal. Abaddons and Domis are a bit of a pain to mass produce and distribute while BCs are quite a lot easier.


So, besides the obvious more DPS and more "tank", BS don't seam have too much going for them.

It knows what you think.
Rubix Khamsi
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2011-10-24 00:04:34 UTC
wow, completely wrong lol...
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2011-10-24 01:50:54 UTC
Terza Torre wrote:
I'm not a pro for sure, but I'm playing eve every day since two yeasr now, and I still pose to me this question: are T1/T2 BS any good?

So far the only useful thing i found they can do better then, e.g. a T2 HAC, faction cruisers or any other decent cruiser level ship, is the combat in large fleet where the alpha strkes really matter and where the large shield or armor buffer can make some difference.

Apart from that they still seems to me very underpowered and mostly useless.
Some examples:

- PVE: they have larger radius than cruisers and much slower, even if their tank seems better on paper it is much worst, DPS seems higer too but only against BSs and only by a very small % compared to cruisers/BCs. A good fitted and skilled BC can do lev 4 mission at the same speed of any T1 BSs or even faster

- Plexing: I can tank solo up to lev 9 plexes with Loki or ishtar or broadsword, I were never been able to do that with any BSs even a faction fitted rattlesnake (for example) for the same reason above

- PVP: wihtout logi or large fleet you are slow, easier to target, and for you is very hard to hit enemy tackle unles u have frigate support, so you die first, faster and damage you do on enemy is minimnal


Overall BSs seems to me cluncky, slow, expensive and unflexible.
I'm not sure about T2 BSs and Black ops ones though.

Am I wrong or CCP should have a look at them?
TT


...

Yet despite all this, the Nano Pest is one of the most dangerous solo ships in the game

Australian Fanfest Event https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=90062
killroy Atram
Universal Might
#15 - 2011-10-24 02:57:50 UTC
Caleidascope wrote:
Songbird wrote:
damn trolls

I want a dislike button

+1
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#16 - 2011-10-24 04:37:41 UTC
BS have their uses. While I don't hesitate to say a Drake is in many cases a better choice than a Raven, it is always situational. Passive fit Drake melts in AE bonus room. But a properly fit X-large booster Raven can do it. Drake ahs less dps than a Raven, so it's not the best choice where you need lots of dps. But it is faster, more agile, and hits small ships more effectively than a Raven. So really its a matter of what you want to do.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Temo Pher
#17 - 2011-10-24 09:23:30 UTC
The Dominix is probably the best ship in eve for doing level 4’s with the smallest total SP.

It’s also very versatile. Shield tank it, armor tank it, snipe with it, do close range DPS with it, mine with it, or scare small children with its hideous hull. Yes the dominix can be very useful for a new character who wants to try their hand at everything and make isk. But don’t have so much experience or so much isk too invest.

It even gives them the option of using drones exclusively while they invest their training time in things other than conventional weapons.

Some of us old timers still remember the days of the much feared, all powerful neut domies which melted all who opposed them.
Just don’t show up to any high class space parties in one. You’re not going to impress any chicks.
Tesh Sevateem
Cherry Candy Mountain
#18 - 2011-10-24 10:22:51 UTC
Songbird wrote:
damn trolls

I want a dislike button


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=20196

Then let's have it Twisted
Aesiron
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2011-10-24 11:04:56 UTC
Battleships can do level 4 missions far better than a smaller ship even with high DPS. I currently use an Abaddon for level 4s and it deals about 2000 volley (600 DPS) and can tank most missions. I've noticed that compared to a Drake it has less tank but much more DPS which is generally more ideal because most battleships in level 4s need high DPS to be popped.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2011-10-24 11:32:52 UTC
Temo Pher wrote:


Some of us old timers still remember the days of the much feared, all powerful neut domies which melted all who opposed them.
Just don’t show up to any high class space parties in one. You’re not going to impress any chicks.




I only have about a year in, but occasionally there is a call for a Domi herd when you are trying to force carriers to dock back up. 3600cap per cycle per ship (four neuts) plus about 500dps of fighter ***** slap....not to mention they are a hell of a lot of fun to park on gates and play around with people in.

I also enjoy my nano-hype, with a Rapier in the gang(or just wingman) large blasters DEFINITELY don't suck, nothing like whacking a drake into armor in a couple cycles.

Basically if you build you gang around the idea that you are flying BS's they are a force to be reckoned with...anything short of a counter built HAC gang or T3 Fleet and they bust heads just fine. But I generally don't expect a solo pwnmobile.

Don't get me wrong, I like hac an slash (tackling specifically) as much as the next guy, but its somewhat gratifying to smash someone's face with a BS.