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Wormholes

 
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WHs collapsing and HICs.
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Shamus O'Reilly
Candy Cabal
#1 - 2013-01-03 16:56:18 UTC
Lately our corp has been interested in Wspace. Aside from the basics of knowing that collapsing a WH opens another to a different system i do not know much of how to chain collapse or even tips to collapsing and making sure all of our corp is inside. I was wondering if i could have tips on this? And also ive read threads where Hictors are discussed in the collapsing i was wondering why?

"I swear there are more people complaining over "nullsecers complaining" then actual nullsec people complaining."
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-01-03 17:01:46 UTC
Because of the properties of a Warp disruption field generators effects on the ship.

For example, our standard WH popping onyx by default has a mass of ~18mil kg

with 3 Warp field generators active the mass becomes ~145,000kg

With an oversized AB active the mass becomes ~80mil kg

As a reference, a standard Helios is about 1.2mil kg

So when the WH is critical you can safely fly out at a mass smaller than a frigate, and come back with a mass nearing a battleship, greatly reducing your chance of getting a ship caught on the wrong side when it collapses.
Shamus O'Reilly
Candy Cabal
#3 - 2013-01-03 17:33:26 UTC
Thank you that helps alot o/

"I swear there are more people complaining over "nullsecers complaining" then actual nullsec people complaining."
bubble trout
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-01-04 02:19:54 UTC
Note he said greatly. I have seen a wormhole close on a triple bubble hic going out before. Always fit a cloak and probe launcher.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-01-04 03:01:57 UTC
bubble trout wrote:
Note he said greatly. I have seen a wormhole close on a triple bubble hic going out before. Always fit a cloak and probe launcher.


Yes,

I've managed to get an onyx stuck on the wrong side of a WH once. C4/C5. Literally took about 6 hours to get back to k-space. Alot of that was afk cloaked while being hunted by a T3 gang.

Definitely probe launcher and basic cloak. The best you can fit. Those low strength sigs for statics in high end WH's become really challenging in an unbonused ship.
Efraya
V0LTA
New Eden Alliance 99013733
#6 - 2013-01-04 09:30:08 UTC
If you haven't had an adventure in a collapsing HIC you haven't flown in wspace. Dat Feel.

/me looks at Aquanable

[b][center]WSpace; Dead space.[/center] [center]Lady Spank for forum mod[/center][/b]
Matt Ellis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-01-04 11:34:06 UTC
IF you want slightly different way, use orcas...(if you're in C2 and above...

An orca with prop does a full cycle thru the wormhole with 600mKg... Run one of those thru fully, and then come back a few minutes later and park it on the other side... Then run a few prop modded BS thru the hole. When you do the maths and think its almost crit. use a BC with a 100mn AB on it. Go thru heavy(64mKg), and if it goes crit, return light(14mKg). Then slam the orca back thru the wormhole with full mods.

Bear in mind if you do this. Don't fit plates on the orca, as it wont be able to jump thru if the mass limit on the hole is 300,000,000Kg...

You can find the mass limits and times from this site...

http://www.ellatha.com/eve/wormholelist.asp

Enjoy WH space
Backfyre
Hohmann Transfer
#8 - 2013-01-04 14:05:05 UTC
Why risk a 200M ship and a high skill pilot?

We've used orcas and HICs before and they occasionally got stuck in a hostile WH. We don't do that anymore.

For up to 2b kg wormholes, we push battleships through until critical then we use a 1-day alt in a cheap cruiser with a 100 MN afterburner. If the alt gets stuck, we just pod express back to hisec and pick up a new cruiser. 5M ISK is so much more economical than spending an hour or more getting your high skill pilot back into your WH.
Matt Ellis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-01-04 15:26:59 UTC
Backfyre wrote:
Why risk a 200M ship and a high skill pilot?

We've used orcas and HICs before and they occasionally got stuck in a hostile WH. We don't do that anymore.

For up to 2b kg wormholes, we push battleships through until critical then we use a 1-day alt in a cheap cruiser with a 100 MN afterburner. If the alt gets stuck, we just pod express back to hisec and pick up a new cruiser. 5M ISK is so much more economical than spending an hour or more getting your high skill pilot back into your WH.


I've used Orcas to collapse wormholes for about a year now. I have never been stranded on the wrong side... If you run the maths, and run ships which cant collapse in 2 jumps in the 'grey area', then you guarantee success(almost). If you play it right, you wont get stuck..

Saying that, do keep an eye out for hostiles. We spotted some guys collapsing a wormhole, so we put a ship in and out, so they collapsed it, cos they werent watching the hole..:D It's easy to mess up someones day sometimes...
Backfyre
Hohmann Transfer
#10 - 2013-01-04 15:56:59 UTC
Sometimes you don't know how much mass has already been pushed through a WH. With the math, there is also a gray area in which an orca can close a non-critical WH. With a battleship, if a 2b goes critical, you are guaranteed to have sufficient mass to get it back through. Furthermore, Orcas are easy to catch and dispatch. A couple hunters seeing an orca passing through a WH will think "juicy kill". Closing WH with PvP fit battleships changes that dynamic.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-01-04 16:14:29 UTC
Backfyre wrote:
Sometimes you don't know how much mass has already been pushed through a WH. With the math, there is also a gray area in which an orca can close a non-critical WH. With a battleship, if a 2b goes critical, you are guaranteed to have sufficient mass to get it back through. Furthermore, Orcas are easy to catch and dispatch. A couple hunters seeing an orca passing through a WH will think "juicy kill". Closing WH with PvP fit battleships changes that dynamic.



To each his own. There are plenty of viable methods. Personally we use a combination. Usually we are rolling our static to either find.

1. a route back to empire
2. a system to make some isk
3. a system to find a fight.

Since it is our static, and we just opened it, we have a safety window, in that anyone in the static would have to scan down the signature to get to us. With 3 orca pilots (since we just opened the hole we have a good idea of its mass), we can take it from new to critical in less than a minute. From there we have the orca pilots reshipped into PVP ships and finish it off with HIC's

If we are unsure about the mass we will go the BS route. Or if we are unsure of the safety and don't want to risk the orca's

In over a year we've only had 2 bad pops. One HIC and one Orca. Both got scanned back out safely. And both were stupid mistakes. The orca was being lazy thinking I could safely pass that one more time... And the HIC was when I figured I could save time just jumping through that first time without the bubbles up to again save time.
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#12 - 2013-01-06 04:01:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalel Nimrott
4 bubbles, nuff said


Edit: And this :


Efraya wrote:
If you haven't had an adventure in a collapsing HIC you haven't flown in wspace. Dat Feel.

/me looks at Aquanable

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7
The Masterbaiter
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-01-06 12:22:43 UTC
2 heavy dreads both ways. Perfect!
Comy 1
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2013-01-06 20:37:30 UTC
The Masterbaiter wrote:
2 heavy dreads both ways. Perfect!


This guy made a funny!


I remember when we used to live in a C4 with a C3 static about 2 years ago and did not know about the HIC trick. Can't remember how many times i traveled arround the entire universe in my fully plated armageddon. But atleast I became good at fragwarping.
The Masterbaiter
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-01-06 23:16:59 UTC
Comy 1 wrote:
The Masterbaiter wrote:
2 heavy dreads both ways. Perfect!


This guy made a funny!


I remember when we used to live in a C4 with a C3 static about 2 years ago and did not know about the HIC trick. Can't remember how many times i traveled arround the entire universe in my fully plated armageddon. But atleast I became good at fragwarping.


This guy didnt make a funny!