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Goonswarm Federation is a Design Constraint in Star Citizen?!

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Author
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-01-04 04:00:50 UTC  |  Edited by: masternerdguy
http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/forum/showthread.php?13882-How-powerfull-should-players-be&p=38642&viewfull=1#post38642

Apparently goon antics in EVE have the star citizen community concerned that SC might become too "EVE like" and allow griefing and evil pvp. Apparently big alliances are "bad game design" and the little guy isn't getting enough respect.

Quote:


Well, basically my question is based on EvE where a few huge and well organized alliances with thousands of members completely dominate lawless space. Nobody and no clan not in the large alliances can go out there without getting shot to pieces, gates are camped, stations are camped and if you try to place an orbital base it will immediately get blasted by siege dreadnoughts.

I want people to be able to assert some level of dominance of space, but not complete control. A large alliance may well establish a large asteroid base in a belt and monopolize it, shooting anyone else who tries to mine there. But not an entire system, and if they try to blockade a jump point they could stop fleets but not smugglers and lone wolfs slipping through their fingers. Nor pirates/bounty hunters/RP freedom fighters from operating under their noses from a hidden asteroid base.

The second thing from EvE was GOONs having events like hulkageddon, where they suicide attacked Hulk miners and freighters. The police would swoop in and kill them, but a "neutral" would then loot and salvage their and their victims remains, netting them a tidy profit. As soon as a players security status had dropped too low from criminal activity, they deleted it and created a new one and started again. Next they launched the Burn Jita operation, Jita being the main trade hub in the entire EvE universe and well within the Caldari State's borders, where they suicide ganked litterally thousands of player ships.

Now, I love arson and murder as much as the next guy, but I really wondered why nothing happened in-lore. Everybody knows where the GOON alliance lives, why didn't CCP have the npc Caldari State Navy respond to Burn Jita like America did to 9/11? (they declared it "emergent gameplay" and wrote a post about how well their servers had held up.....)



That kind of quote isn't unique, go to their forums and see for yourself.

Quote:


There is so much to be learned from the Eve experience. Game mechanics should allow player based organizations to get, just so big. Early on as now it's easy to set those limits, but once you have a 12,000 member organization as in Eve online's case, that with there allies seem to control everything in the game, it can become impossible. Especially with CCP being on the ropes for money, as is now, they just can't break it up. It would **** too many off, and cost subscriptions, or revenue, when they desperately need it.



I have been reading the SC forums tonight to pass some time, and I am truly amazed at the level of carebearism and pubbyism being displayed. They make brilliant threads that are putting EVE entitlement threads to shame such as


  • The ability for individuals to be more powerful than organized groups (for teh balancez)
  • The ability to pause the game during PVP to go to the bathroom
  • The ability for people who prefer single player to upload their progress to the main server so they can grind offline (no way to exploit this)


They are afraid of PVP, antisocial, risk averse, and want 15 different games rolled into one. Sound familiar?

Why am I posting this here? Because CCP loves to listen to these kinds of whiners and has lost their HTFU philosophy. I'm concerned that this new alcove of carebearism is going to overfill into our community and ruin it forever. CCP, I am truly begging you. Guard, Greyscale, Eterne, PLEASE DO NOT SUCCUMB TO THESE KINDS OF PEOPLE.

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#2 - 2013-01-04 04:04:14 UTC
Haha, that's pretty great stuff. Thanks for sharing.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#3 - 2013-01-04 04:07:09 UTC
I liked the not so cleverly disguised "CCP Should stop the goons!!!1" bit in there. Also, apparently 9/11 is comparable to Burn Jita. Huh.

Yes, I'm restating things you just read.

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance

Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#4 - 2013-01-04 04:08:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Lykouleon
Quote:
why didn't CCP have the npc Caldari State Navy respond to Burn Jita like America did to 9/11?

This is the point where someone needs to put down the mountain dew, shift backwards away from the keyboard, and remove the tinfoil hat of shame.

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword

masternerdguy
Doomheim
#5 - 2013-01-04 04:10:08 UTC  |  Edited by: masternerdguy
Lykouleon wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
why didn't CCP have the npc Caldari State Navy respond to Burn Jita like America did to 9/11?

This is the point where someone needs to put down the mountain dew, shift backwards away from the keyboard, and remove the tinfoil hat of shame.


I never said that, some dude on the SC forums didBig smile

Please fix the quoting I feel tarnished by the filth you quotedCool

EDIT: Another gem from their forums

Quote:


Hence why I do not play Eve anymore. Whatever SC ends up being, it has to have a better sandbox.

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#6 - 2013-01-04 04:14:36 UTC
Star Citizen may attract Eve players, but they won't be the ones that drive conflict and content, they'll be the ones farming and afking all the resources. Tbh they're welcome to the self entitled, change the mechanics to suit us bunch.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2013-01-04 04:18:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/forum/showthread.php?13832-A-word-of-Warning&highlight=online

Quote:
P1. Rewarding players with overpowered, indestructible, game content such as special ships that are fully insured is a disaster waiting to happen.

Why?

You are creating a class of player that will be immune to the consequences of destruction and giving them the ability to destroy lower class players assets with zero risk to their own. This will pave the way to elitist griefing on epic scales.

lollll, getting rid of insurance will stop suicide ganking

i take it they're assuming SC will have their own version of space CONCORD
evil0
Doomheim
#8 - 2013-01-04 04:22:37 UTC
Quote:


Huge Corps taking control of entire sectors of space would turn SC into Eve 2.0 and I would never put another dime into the game.



Quote:


No sectors of space, but sectors of a town (that can always be taken back) should be sweet. Agreed that the Eve-like domination should have no place in SC.



Quote:


Battling the 'goonish lulseccian forces' will not be part of the fun. It will be an indication that CR and CIG failed in game design to prevent those players from being successful at being goonish twits.

A lot of discussion on how to deal with abuses, exploiting and griefing. The consensus seems to be that CR and CIG will be putting a lot of effort into removing that sort of behavior from game at every opportunity. Otherwise the idea of the economy and a promised game environment will fall apart.

I have more faith in CR and CIG than that.



Big smile
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2013-01-04 04:24:40 UTC
SC, the next SWTOR. *yawn*

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#10 - 2013-01-04 04:26:22 UTC
Ok, so where do I sign up for the Goonstar Citizen... guild/fellowship/whatever they call it. Gotta get in on the ground floor before we start digging several basements worth downwards.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-01-04 04:26:40 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:

Now, I love arson and murder as much as the next guy, but I really wondered why nothing happened in-lore. Everybody knows where the GOON alliance lives, why didn't CCP have the npc Caldari State Navy respond to Burn Jita like America did to 9/11? (they declared it "emergent gameplay" and wrote a post about how well their servers had held up.....)

This would have been kinda glorious but for some reason CCP has gotten away from that sort of thing. Could be something about perceptions regarding such events in the past and their interaction with a certain long-dead alliance...

masternerdguy wrote:
I have been reading the SC forums tonight to pass some time, and I am truly amazed at the level of carebearism and pubbyism being displayed. They make brilliant threads that are putting EVE entitlement threads to shame such as


  • The ability for individuals to be more powerful than organized groups (for teh balancez)
  • The ability to pause the game during PVP to go to the bathroom
  • The ability for people who prefer single player to upload their progress to the main server so they can grind offline (no way to exploit this)


They are afraid of PVP, antisocial, risk averse, and want 15 different games rolled into one. Sound familiar?

Why am I posting this here? Because CCP loves to listen to these kinds of whiners and has lost their HTFU philosophy. I'm concerned that this new alcove of carebearism is going to overfill into our community and ruin it forever. CCP, I am truly begging you. Guard, Greyscale, Eterne, PLEASE DO NOT SUCCUMB TO THESE KINDS OF PEOPLE.


I must admit, however, that this is not the conclusion I was expecting from the OP.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

masternerdguy
Doomheim
#12 - 2013-01-04 04:28:20 UTC  |  Edited by: masternerdguy
mynnna wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:

Now, I love arson and murder as much as the next guy, but I really wondered why nothing happened in-lore. Everybody knows where the GOON alliance lives, why didn't CCP have the npc Caldari State Navy respond to Burn Jita like America did to 9/11? (they declared it "emergent gameplay" and wrote a post about how well their servers had held up.....)

This would have been kinda glorious but for some reason CCP has gotten away from that sort of thing. Could be something about perceptions regarding such events in the past and their interaction with a certain long-dead alliance...

masternerdguy wrote:
I have been reading the SC forums tonight to pass some time, and I am truly amazed at the level of carebearism and pubbyism being displayed. They make brilliant threads that are putting EVE entitlement threads to shame such as


  • The ability for individuals to be more powerful than organized groups (for teh balancez)
  • The ability to pause the game during PVP to go to the bathroom
  • The ability for people who prefer single player to upload their progress to the main server so they can grind offline (no way to exploit this)


They are afraid of PVP, antisocial, risk averse, and want 15 different games rolled into one. Sound familiar?

Why am I posting this here? Because CCP loves to listen to these kinds of whiners and has lost their HTFU philosophy. I'm concerned that this new alcove of carebearism is going to overfill into our community and ruin it forever. CCP, I am truly begging you. Guard, Greyscale, Eterne, PLEASE DO NOT SUCCUMB TO THESE KINDS OF PEOPLE.


I must admit, however, that this is not the conclusion I was expecting from the OP.



You do know I am quoting others on a different forum right? I even provided a URL as a source.

Alavaria Fera wrote:
Ok, so where do I sign up for the Goonstar Citizen... guild/fellowship/whatever they call it. Gotta get in on the ground floor before we start digging several basements worth downwards.



You did awesome work in Star Trek Online (Starfleet Dental if I recall?).

All you have to do is sign up on their forums and you can begin posting immediately. There are already guilds forming, including ones that are openly racist. Another good one is a corp that advertises they hate America and won't recruit Americans because they are "cute bumbling idiots"

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Karak Terrel
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER
#13 - 2013-01-04 04:33:06 UTC
Looks like the broken whiners that could not get into eve are now protecting CCP's corner by diluting other games who aren't even out yet with carebearish nonsense. CCP should send them some flowers or a bottle of quafe or something.

Still hope they don't listen, the game sounded promising at first.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2013-01-04 04:34:18 UTC
"The following words are either very common, too long, or too short and were not included in your search:
EVE"

I gave up trying to read their forums at that point.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2013-01-04 04:35:13 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
There are already guilds forming, including ones that are openly racist. Another good one is a corp that advertises they hate America and won't recruit Americans because they are "cute bumbling idiots"

And it's tolerated?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

No More Heroes
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#16 - 2013-01-04 04:38:35 UTC
Heaven forbid they have a wildly successful MMO instead of World of Warcraft in space..


CANT HAVE THAT

.

masternerdguy
Doomheim
#17 - 2013-01-04 04:39:15 UTC  |  Edited by: masternerdguy
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
There are already guilds forming, including ones that are openly racist. Another good one is a corp that advertises they hate America and won't recruit Americans because they are "cute bumbling idiots"

And it's tolerated?


http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/forums/topic/anti-american-east-xi-an-trading-company/

Apparantly. WARNING: The SC community is pretty quick to invoke forum rules like Godwin's law as well. They even call each other terrorists and demand the FBI get sicked on them.

No More Heroes wrote:
Heaven forbid they have a wildly successful MMO instead of World of Warcraft in space..


CANT HAVE THAT


Of course not, where will all the little calculators go?

Things are only impossible until they are not.

SpoonRECKLESS
Beach Boys
The Minions.
#18 - 2013-01-04 04:40:23 UTC
What did I just read?

Blue

Diamond Bull
Doomheim
#19 - 2013-01-04 04:40:26 UTC
I just want a good spaceship MMO where people can't get away with constantly screwing each other. I still have hope for SC.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-01-04 04:42:06 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:


You do know I am quoting others on a different forum right? I even provided a URL as a source.


No no no, I mean that given the forum environment lately, I sort of expected you to be agreeing with it and going "these are great ideas, CCP should implement them!"

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

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