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Logi [Guardian] - how the heck to you fit this thing?
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Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#1 - 2013-01-03 16:30:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Aurelius Valentius
Greetings,

I am trying to figure out how you would fit this thing for 3x support situations:

1. Small Gang, HS - for Missions

2. Small Gang/Fleet any sec, Incursions

3. Small Gang WH sleepers

I have been messing with this and messing with this, and can't seem to get it right... I am new to logi work, but getting there also, but not new to the game.

Skills here for them's that need to know:

EVEboard Page

Here is my EFT starting point:

Medium Fit:

[Guardian, Guardian v1.0]

Medium Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium Energy Transfer Array II
Medium Energy Transfer Array II
Medium Energy Transfer Array II

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

Light Armor Maintenance Bot II x5

78.6 E / 72.2 T / 84% K / 91.4 E - 23,261 EHP, 35% cap stable with everything running.

Large Fit:

[Guardian, Guardian v1.0A]

Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Damage Control II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Energy Transfer Array II
Large Energy Transfer Array II

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II

Light Armor Maintenance Bot II x5

cap stable at 56%
Lee Mcgee
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-01-03 16:47:58 UTC
With the Guardian, it will be running with a partner or multiple partners. For capaacitor and to repair. You will be cap stable when you form 'Cap chains' with other guardians.

I would recommend getting Logistics V. Also swopping the medium reps and arrays for Large. Then fitting it as a plate setup, also throw a propulsion on. I would recommend an afterburner to keep your sig down.

I havnt flown much logistics myself, but currently training it to Level V.
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#3 - 2013-01-03 17:07:06 UTC
Lee Mcgee wrote:
With the Guardian, it will be running with a partner or multiple partners. For capaacitor and to repair. You will be cap stable when you form 'Cap chains' with other guardians.

I would recommend getting Logistics V. Also swopping the medium reps and arrays for Large. Then fitting it as a plate setup, also throw a propulsion on. I would recommend an afterburner to keep your sig down.

I havnt flown much logistics myself, but currently training it to Level V.


I got to this point, this is more for small gang mission and WH where it is likely [almost certain] I will be the only logi ship in the fleet [more like squadron] so keep that in mind when looking, it' cap stable and 58% has good resists and a bit of EHP, more than the cruisers I would be supporting [T3s, HACs, etc] as this is going to be a HS WH entry. or a Mission with 3-4 people in BS hulls for L4 sec missions. I backed off the all logi for this job as I don't see the intensity of need like in a PvP situation... but I could be wrong, I also wanted some self rep ability and tank just in case I take some damage myself, especially if in a WH situation, I can just SS and self rep, rather than have to go back to station and take mass off the life of the WH.

[Guardian, Guardian v1.0B]

Medium Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
400mm Reinforced Steel Plates II

10MN Afterburner II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Medium Energy Transfer Array II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

Light Combat II x5
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#4 - 2013-01-03 17:15:47 UTC
For solo armor logistics consider looking at the Oneiros. It might mean you need to train up Gallente Cruiser but the additional mid slots make cap stability easier.

As has been mentioned, part of the Guardian's real strength is when it is working paired up with another to benefit from the cumulative cap transfer bonus.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-01-03 18:48:15 UTC
Onerios for solo logi. You won't bring enough cap boosters on Guard to last through any kind of pve.
Jacob Rider
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-01-03 19:04:35 UTC
#1: You will never be able to run incursions with only one logistics ship. The Vanguard sites will eat you alive. Anything lower than Vanguards can be soloed, and anything higher needs a bigger fleet.
#2: If you're going to be a logi, be a logi -- no sense in making your logistics ship suck at logistics just to add crappy damage-dealing ability to it.

My suggestion is to use an Oneiros. You're already skilled for it. You can even fit Tracking Links to make your buddies better at killing.

[Oneiros, Solo Logi Doomed To Die]
400mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Medium Armor Repairer II

10MN Afterburner II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script

Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction

Medium Remote Repair Augmentor I
Medium Remote Repair Augmentor I

Hobgoblin II x5
Light Armor Maintenance Bot II x5

The RRA rigs are better than CCC rigs on armor logistics ships.
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#7 - 2013-01-03 19:11:19 UTC
You should always have more than one logistics on the field for Incursions/Sleepers, so don't even bother fitting a local repper to it. Go full buffer and fly with others who can rep you.
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#8 - 2013-01-03 19:43:32 UTC
Kosetzu wrote:
You should always have more than one logistics on the field for Incursions/Sleepers, so don't even bother fitting a local repper to it. Go full buffer and fly with others who can rep you.


Ok, Gallente for solo logi in small fleet. I can do that.

What about an Incursion fleet fit then?, lets say I join an incursion fleet and someone else or a few people in the band are in Guardians [Armor Fleet] and I want to get in on the goodies. How do I fit the "Iron Man" for best effect... also does that mean I don't get any goodies if I have no weapons? or is it shared around as I have heard?

Someone pointed to Incursions as a good ISKcome and LPs (assuming with someone) and the best way to learn them was to join a fleet in a logi (everyone likes logi's) and kind of help and learn... this true? or am I being miss-lead?
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#9 - 2013-01-03 19:52:57 UTC
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
Kosetzu wrote:
You should always have more than one logistics on the field for Incursions/Sleepers, so don't even bother fitting a local repper to it. Go full buffer and fly with others who can rep you.


Ok, Gallente for solo logi in small fleet. I can do that.

What about an Incursion fleet fit then?, lets say I join an incursion fleet and someone else or a few people in the band are in Guardians [Armor Fleet] and I want to get in on the goodies. How do I fit the "Iron Man" for best effect... also does that mean I don't get any goodies if I have no weapons? or is it shared around as I have heard?

Someone pointed to Incursions as a good ISKcome and LPs (assuming with someone) and the best way to learn them was to join a fleet in a logi (everyone likes logi's) and kind of help and learn... this true? or am I being miss-lead?

Logi is very good to get into Incursion fleets, and everyone in the fleet gets payout on site completion (else why would logies do Incursions if they didn't get anything from it). I don't have any experience as an armor logi in Incursions, though I enjoy flying in the shield fleets with my Basilisk.

You should join some armor Incursion channel to get a better idea of it, and get a decent fit. The Ditanian Fleet is one of the large armor communities (might be misspelled). I only have a PvP Guardian fit so I can't help you with a PvE fit as I haven't used my Guardian there, and the PvP fit is not public.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#10 - 2013-01-03 20:07:00 UTC
Aurelius Valentius wrote:

I got to this point, this is more for small gang mission and WH where it is likely [almost certain] I will be the only logi ship in the fleet [more like squadron] so keep that in mind when looking


Then don't fly the guardian. Really. Unless you only need the power of 2 reppers or something, its not gonna work

Quote:

[Guardian, Guardian v1.0B]

Medium Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
400mm Reinforced Steel Plates II

10MN Afterburner II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Medium Energy Transfer Array II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

Light Combat II x5


holy hell my eyes.

I suppose its not terrible for what you want it to do, however a 400mm plate is kind of worthless and you're fitting a t2 powergrid rig just to get slightly fast rep from your 2 reps and some ****** dps from your lasers. Unless your specifically facing neut-ing ships, the energy transfer array is also completely pointless. Here's my advice: If you're the only repper in a gang of dps ships, then just go for full rep/tank. Despite what we've said about guardians needing to be in pairs, you can tank a guardian and still get enough reps out to keep everyone happy with just your local regen. Lose the stupid lasers, you won't need a cap booster either. The DPS is negligible, and the extra tank will make you happy. If you only need a little bit of reps and more dps, then fit a utility battleship like an Apoc, use t1 rep drones. Dominix is king in this role. If you're doing wormholes and need serious repping and captransfering power, take a utility battleship buddy with you and go for a more standard guardian setup yourself. You feed the battleship cap with 1 transfer, he feeds it back to you with multiple transfers, and he also repairs you, while you repair everyone else. He can still use drones and leftover highslots for additional repping and dps, and since he's armor tanked with no need for cap recharge, the utility bs can fit a prop mod, target painters, or tracking boosters to make him not so useless. Again though, you're best off with an oneiros for serious self-sutained repping power.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-01-03 20:32:09 UTC
If you are serious about Logi, then logi 5 is pretty much a mandatory skill It's what makes a guardian cap stable with only one incoming cap transfer, and makes an oni stable without totally gimping the fit.

For PVE (incursions) you don't need to do any damage to get the payout. For PVP if you want to whore on the killmails, throw in some light damage drones. Don't bother wasting your highs with guns.

Here is a good starter guideline for guardian incursion fits. I use the Oni fits on the site in incursions with great success.

http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=ArmorGuardian

Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-01-03 20:34:17 UTC
chris elliot
Seal Club Six
Plug N Play
#13 - 2013-01-03 22:06:41 UTC  |  Edited by: chris elliot
Aurelius Valentius wrote:


I got to this point, this is more for small gang mission and WH where it is likely [almost certain] I will be the only logi ship in the fleet [more like squadron] so keep that in mind when looking, it' cap stable and 58% has good resists and a bit of EHP, more than the cruisers I would be supporting [T3s, HACs, etc] as this is going to be a HS WH entry. or a Mission with 3-4 people in BS hulls for L4 sec missions. I backed off the all logi for this job as I don't see the intensity of need like in a PvP situation... but I could be wrong, I also wanted some self rep ability and tank just in case I take some damage myself, especially if in a WH situation, I can just SS and self rep, rather than have to go back to station and take mass off the life of the WH.




If you are the only guardian in a wh fleet then you are doing it wrong.


That being said you can bounce large cap x-fers off a battleship and stay afloat. Provided you don't wander off and he does not get jammed. Its not ideal by any means and should be avoided unless you are under serious cap pressure but its doable.

From there you can fit a standard 4/2 guardian like so. If you plan to be in guardians a lot though training logi to 5 is a must for a multitude of reasons.

[Guardian, 4/2]

Dark Blood Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Dark Blood Armor EM Hardener
Dark Blood Armor Kinetic Hardener
Dark Blood Armor Thermic Hardener
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I

Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Regard' Power Projector
Large 'Regard' Power Projector

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II


Or go with a "Caboose" setup as made popular by RnK.

[Guardian, caboose]

Damage Control II
Imperial Navy Armor EM Hardener
Imperial Navy Armor Kinetic Hardener
Imperial Navy Armor Thermic Hardener
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I

Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Centum C-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System
Centum C-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System
Large 'Regard' Power Projector

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II


Warrior II x5


Edited Fit 1 because of derp.
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#14 - 2013-01-03 22:38:13 UTC
chris elliot wrote:
[
[Guardian, 4/2]

Dark Blood Armor EM Hardener
Dark Blood Armor Explosive Hardener
Dark Blood Armor Kinetic Hardener
Dark Blood Armor Thermic Hardener
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I

Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Regard' Power Projector
Large 'Regard' Power Projector

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II


Or go with a "Kaboose" setup as made popular by RnK.

[Guardian, caboose]

Damage Control II
Imperial Navy Armor EM Hardener
Imperial Navy Armor Kinetic Hardener
Imperial Navy Armor Thermic Hardener
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I

Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Centum C-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System
Centum C-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System
Large 'Regard' Power Projector

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II


Warrior II x5

Fixed that for you. One thing to consider with these fits is that the faction items can be rather pricey. Remember to check out alternative faction modules with the same bonuses, even some deadspace. You save lots on doing a couple minutes of quick research when you buy then.
chris elliot
Seal Club Six
Plug N Play
#15 - 2013-01-03 23:03:27 UTC
Kosetzu wrote:

Fixed that for you. One thing to consider with these fits is that the faction items can be rather pricey. Remember to check out alternative faction modules with the same bonuses, even some deadspace. You save lots on doing a couple minutes of quick research when you buy then.


Picky Picky. lol

That being said, in my experiences with my guardians, and I fly them on an almost daily basis, they are things that must live in order for your gang not to get roflstomped. And next to falcons they take an inordinate amount of hate in a fight so tossing a few hundred mill on tanking mods and rigs is not a big deal in the long run to make sure it lives to do its work. I have not however brought myself to put deadspace hardeners on mine yet though. For that I would just bring a triage carrier and be done with it, lol.



As for Aurelius Valentius, never feel shy about asking your guardian partner to show you their fit if you are not used to flying with them. There are a lot of terrible ways to fit a guardian out there(you showed us a few) and if you are paired up with one of them you will both likely get killed very quickly, followed shortly by your gang.
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#16 - 2013-01-04 00:15:36 UTC
chris elliot wrote:
Kosetzu wrote:

Fixed that for you. One thing to consider with these fits is that the faction items can be rather pricey. Remember to check out alternative faction modules with the same bonuses, even some deadspace. You save lots on doing a couple minutes of quick research when you buy then.


Picky Picky. lol

That being said, in my experiences with my guardians, and I fly them on an almost daily basis, they are things that must live in order for your gang not to get roflstomped. And next to falcons they take an inordinate amount of hate in a fight so tossing a few hundred mill on tanking mods and rigs is not a big deal in the long run to make sure it lives to do its work. I have not however brought myself to put deadspace hardeners on mine yet though. For that I would just bring a triage carrier and be done with it, lol.



As for Aurelius Valentius, never feel shy about asking your guardian partner to show you their fit if you are not used to flying with them. There are a lot of terrible ways to fit a guardian out there(you showed us a few) and if you are paired up with one of them you will both likely get killed very quickly, followed shortly by your gang.


Hehe, well I don't fit them like this... I just ask about fits on the forums and then get info and do it correctly... PVP on the forums is harsh but it's cheap on ISK and KMs... so I would rather people "BLAP" my fit here with harsh language then IG... I have thick skin.

Def learned alot in the last few days on fitting for ships I can fly but haven't, and will work with the fits and ideas on Buckingham for a bit to tweek my skills and all until I am confident I have a "win" fit, then I drop the ISK and fit one out, by then I have also learned enough about what I am doing and supposed to do to make it work - I guess I take the school learning approach to it, over the "into the fire" approach.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-01-04 00:18:56 UTC
Oh one other thought for fits, at least incursions. Join the Ditanian fleet channel and just watch. People post their fits looking for fleets all day. Not that they are all great but you start getting an idea of what is most common.
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#18 - 2013-01-04 00:58:05 UTC
chris elliot wrote:
Kosetzu wrote:

Fixed that for you. One thing to consider with these fits is that the faction items can be rather pricey. Remember to check out alternative faction modules with the same bonuses, even some deadspace. You save lots on doing a couple minutes of quick research when you buy then.


Picky Picky. lol

That being said, in my experiences with my guardians, and I fly them on an almost daily basis, they are things that must live in order for your gang not to get roflstomped. And next to falcons they take an inordinate amount of hate in a fight so tossing a few hundred mill on tanking mods and rigs is not a big deal in the long run to make sure it lives to do its work. I have not however brought myself to put deadspace hardeners on mine yet though. For that I would just bring a triage carrier and be done with it, lol.

You misunderstand what I'm saying. Some of those faction mods are a lot cheaper if you buy different faction/deadspace versions of it.

For example Imperial Navy, True Sansha, Khanid Navy and Ammatar Navy all have the same stats for the same modules. Buying the Imperial Navy version might not be the cheapest alternative... As for deadspace, my PvP Guardian fit has some C-type mods on it that were butt cheap compared to faction, while giving better bonuses. Only type I'd stay clear of is officer mods, they are stupidly overpriced for no apparent bonus. Only a select few officer items are better than the deadspace versions.

Of course if you buy from LP store you can get it for a better price but that's a whole other way of acquiring them.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-01-04 01:17:28 UTC
pro guard fit:

Quote:
[Guardian, Pro Guard]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Imperial Navy Armor Thermic Hardener
Imperial Navy Armor EM Hardener
Damage Control II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Faint Warp Disruptor I

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Regard' Power Projector

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II


Hobgoblin II x5

There is no Bob.

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Pinaculus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-01-04 03:05:31 UTC
Guardians don't really work solo. It's a good thing because you need another Guardian or 2 to rep the enemy fleet tossing rounds at you when they figure out they can't out dps your fleet's reps. Another tip....don't bother with repair drones in PvP. It's tempting at first, but I find it more effective to use combat drones to kill some of the 20 ECM drones that will be on you the whole fight. Logi getting jammed at the wrong time is very bad.

I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs.
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