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ISK Sinks. What are they?
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Larka Minayin
Disciples of the Worm
#81 - 2013-01-04 00:23:34 UTC
At the fanfest, CCP stated that they wanted to make POS's something that everyone, from the solo miner, to the roaming pirate, to the major alliance would want, and scale accordingly. Hence, use THEM as the ISK sinks.

So, first, imagine that all the refining in NPC stations is made uniformly 15~30%, and manufacturing and research fees were made astronomical. Allow easily accessible, though still costly, modules to small POS's that would be able to get to perfect refining, or do research effectively, etc.

Additionally, this gives people a reason to actually leave NPC stations, especially if you are able to dock at a POS (which can explode).
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#82 - 2013-01-04 00:52:15 UTC
Larka Minayin wrote:
At the fanfest, CCP stated that they wanted to make POS's something that everyone, from the solo miner, to the roaming pirate, to the major alliance would want, and scale accordingly. Hence, use THEM as the ISK sinks.

So, first, imagine that all the refining in NPC stations is made uniformly 15~30%, and manufacturing and research fees were made astronomical. Allow easily accessible, though still costly, modules to small POS's that would be able to get to perfect refining, or do research effectively, etc.

Additionally, this gives people a reason to actually leave NPC stations, especially if you are able to dock at a POS (which can explode).

Funny, I wrote about exactly that idea a few weeks ago. Cool

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2013-01-04 00:59:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
RubyPorto wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
...the "replace HS ISK bounties with LP" proposal is not meant to be a nerf to HS. It's meant to reduce the inflationary pressure on the EVE economy.

Seeing things over the past 3 years has me convinced that bounds on mineral sources and mechanics tend to have a stronger influence on price inflation that isk injection/sinks. I really wish though that we could get more granular and detailed information regarding market performance though. Maybe then I could see what is being referred to here.


That's not inflation, that's the costs in one sector going up. While ship Hulls and T1 items went up dramatically after the drone poo nerf, T2 modules (which use negligible amounts of Minerals) stayed pretty steady.

"Stuff that I buy is more expensive" doesn't necessarily indicate inflation.

That wasn't a "Stuff that I buy is more expensive" observation, but rather a "What is negative market influence that this conversation is trying to avoid"? Every effect presented seems to have other causes readily available to attribute to it.

There are a good number of suggestions, including your own quoted, that would cause a great deal of change in the way isk is generated and moved. I'm simply trying to understand what the endpoint is if we do nothing. What is the disaster that we are trying to avert? And why hasn't it happened already (or has it)?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#84 - 2013-01-04 01:55:14 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
That wasn't a "Stuff that I buy is more expensive" observation, but rather a "What is negative market influence that this conversation is trying to avoid"? Every effect presented seems to have other causes readily available to attribute to it.

There are a good number of suggestions, including your own quoted, that would cause a great deal of change in the way isk is generated and moved. I'm simply trying to understand what the endpoint is if we do nothing. What is the disaster that we are trying to avert? And why hasn't it happened already (or has it)?



Basically, we dislike inflation. The primary cause (and only really significant long term cause) of inflation is an increase in the money supply.

EVE's monetary supply is increasing by a tremendous amount every month with little if anything regulating it (Ripard Teg had a theory that CCP allowed FW Plexing to go on as long as it did because of the staggering amount of ISK it was sinking out of the economy).

There's no definite "the earth blows up" cliff or anything. The market basket will simply slowly get more and more expensive, making it harder for newbies to get started, and make everything more expensive for those on fixed incomes (anyone whose income relies on an ISK Faucet).

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#85 - 2013-01-04 02:12:36 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
EVE's monetary supply is increasing by a tremendous amount every month with little if anything regulating it (Ripard Teg had a theory that CCP allowed FW Plexing to go on as long as it did because of the staggering amount of ISK it was sinking out of the economy).
It's not a bad theory, and it kind of highlights why this whole notion of making missions pretty much entirely LP-based has some merit (of course, there are additional merits to that idea, but that's the really big one).
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#86 - 2013-01-04 06:03:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
mynnna wrote:


Quote:
81.9bn spent on transaction taxes, 95.9bn on broker fees. Player owned stations earned their owners 6bn in broker fees.

One day.
Quote:
According to my data, 18th Oct 2010: Broker fee -46.78bn ISK (also +3bn isk, to outpost owners), -42.2bn ISK Trans tax.

Another day.
Quote:
1.98tn ISK spent on broker fees in Jan 2012.
1.75tn ISK spent on transaction taxes in Jan 2012.

A whole month, although that first number would include fees to outpost owners which obviously aren't sunk. Subtract around 5-8% on account of that, if the daily numbers are any indication.

My point is that while fees and taxes are undeniably in the top 5 isk sinks by size (Diagoras even said so) they're not as big as you think they are and pretty damn miniscule compared to faucets, especially the bounties faucet.


Its what, 8% of your estimated faucets, and you think there are 5 such sinks, so 40% is clearly being sunk monthly. In any case the transaction fees clearly demonstrate the size of the "isk working set" that actually denotes the prices of things, and those fees would rise in direct proportion to any increase in the size of the working set (Inflation or greater activity amount).

Yes the amount of isk being stored on the server increases each month, but that does not matter unless the working set grows.