These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

The main FW topics Q1 2013

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Dan Carter Murray
#21 - 2013-01-02 14:12:08 UTC
my 2 isk (edited)

system upgrades need to be changed.
tier needs to be changed.
tier benefits need to be changed.


tier should be based solely on % of systems owned.
in other words there are 70 systems in amarr/minmatar FW.
amarr owns 21 and minmatar owns 49.
amarr have have 30% control so tier 2 and minmatar have 70% control so tier 4.

tier benefits
tier 1: 0% increased LP
tier 2: 5% increased LP
tier 3: 10% increased LP
tier 4: 15% increased LP
tier 5: 20% increased LP, 0 LP for defensive plexing

change the system upgrade **** though.
level 0: nothing
level 1: 5% cheaper clones, 5% cheaper market orders, 5% plex rat dmg, 5% plex rat armor/shield repair, 5% plex rat armor/shield/structure
level 2: 10% cheaper clones, 10% cheaper market orders, 10% plex rat dmg, 10% plex rat armor/shield repair, 10% plex rat armor/shield/structure
level 3: 15% cheaper clones, 15% cheaper market orders, 15% plex rat dmg, 15% plex rat armor/shield repair, 15% plex rat armor/shield/structure
level 4: 20% cheaper clones, 20% cheaper market orders, 20% plex rat dmg, 20% plex rat armor/shield repair, 20% plex rat armor/shield/structure
level 5: 25% cheaper clones, 25% cheaper market orders, 25% plex rat dmg, 25% plex rat armor/shield repair, 25% plex rat armor/shield/structure

buffer: plexes time down when no enemies are inside (only times down back to original 0 time), plex NPCs have disruptors (100km) in addition to their increased dmg, repping, and total armor/shield/structure hitpoints

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#22 - 2013-01-02 14:22:40 UTC
Hidden Snake wrote:
OGB has nothing to do with FW .... BTW ....

Eve is interconnected up the wazoo, so yes OGB does have something to do with FW; just as null profitability/viability, titan bridges, faction gear from high-sec stores et al. does.

It is the beauty/attraction as well as the major drawback of the one-server environment .. balancing even the smallest thing can have significant unforseen repercussions, Eve history has volumes of examples to that Big smile
Corelyn
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-01-02 14:55:06 UTC
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
my 2 isk (edited)

system upgrades need to be changed.
tier needs to be changed.
tier benefits need to be changed.


tier should be based solely on % of systems owned.
in other words there are 70 systems in amarr/minmatar FW.
amarr owns 21 and minmatar owns 49.
amarr have have 30% control so tier 2 and minmatar have 70% control so tier 4.

tier benefits
tier 1: 0% increased LP
tier 2: 5% increased LP
tier 3: 10% increased LP
tier 4: 15% increased LP
tier 5: 20% increased LP, 0 LP for defensive plexing

change the system upgrade **** though.
level 0: nothing
level 1: 5% cheaper clones, 5% cheaper market orders, 5% plex rat dmg, 5% plex rat armor/shield repair, 5% plex rat armor/shield/structure
level 2: 10% cheaper clones, 10% cheaper market orders, 10% plex rat dmg, 10% plex rat armor/shield repair, 10% plex rat armor/shield/structure
level 3: 15% cheaper clones, 15% cheaper market orders, 15% plex rat dmg, 15% plex rat armor/shield repair, 15% plex rat armor/shield/structure
level 4: 20% cheaper clones, 20% cheaper market orders, 20% plex rat dmg, 20% plex rat armor/shield repair, 20% plex rat armor/shield/structure
level 5: 25% cheaper clones, 25% cheaper market orders, 25% plex rat dmg, 25% plex rat armor/shield repair, 25% plex rat armor/shield/structure

buffer: plexes time down when no enemies are inside (only times down back to original 0 time), plex NPCs have disruptors (100km) in addition to their increased dmg, repping, and total armor/shield/structure hitpoints


Increased incentive for upgrading the iHubs would be constructive. The objective should be to stall potential plex assailants, be it through tougher plex npc's, EWAR or multiple NPC's, scaling with the system upgrade level.

Even a slight change to the iHub upgrade system would help, right now people who put LP's into iHubs go:"ok, so, this was good(?), the bar used to be there, now it's over there."
CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#24 - 2013-01-02 15:36:59 UTC
Removed some trolling from this thread.

EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative ※ EVE Illuminati ※ Fiction Adept

@CCP_Eterne ※ @EVE_LiveEvents
SeaSaw
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2013-01-02 16:02:24 UTC  |  Edited by: SeaSaw
From the OP

  • Is the snowball effect of the LP bonus too high? (Current T1 = -50%, T2 = Standard, T3= +75%, T4 = 150% and T5 = 225%). Does it in fact make people jump for LP rather than fight for what they believe in and does the fact that the overwhelming power gain of massive LP on top simply kill off the competition as well as people leaving the losing Fraction when at T1 (-50% LP)?

  • OGB (Off Grid Boosting) Often alts (not in FW) are used in fleets to massively boost the performance of ships. Especially in FW the T3 OGB has close to zero risk of being attacked (not a War Target) and happily transfers its bonus system wide even into Plex’es where the ship would not be allowed.

    • End OP QUOTE

    Good Sirs;

    I would keep the snowball effect, you want farmers to take more risks. If you farm in the middle of a T5 (like seseide for instance)
    you get attacked every 5 minutes if the server population is above 40,000. It is almost not worth the effort compared to sitting around a peaceful T2. You might tie the LP to how many FW enemies are actually in the system (averaged over the last day) or how many PVP deaths. You definitely want to reward farmers for taking higher risks.

    OGB just makes farmers run from anything they see on dscan. You might actually stay and fight the occasional lone rifter or merlin if it weren't for OGB. T5 systems always (yep always) have booster ships when the server population is above about 40,000--so you run from everything cuz you never know.

    your humble servent
    SeaSaw
    Tsobai Hashimoto
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #26 - 2013-01-02 19:05:11 UTC
    Gunship wrote:
    Status report 1st of January 2013:



    Frequent topics that keeps coming up:
    [list]
  • Is the snowball effect of the LP bonus too high? (Current T1 = -50%, T2 = Standard, T3= +75%, T4 = 150% and T5 = 225%). Does it in fact make people jump for LP rather than fight for what they believe in and does the fact that the overwhelming power gain of massive LP on top simply kill off the competition as well as people leaving the losing Fraction when at T1 (-50% LP)?





    • Honestly when you start running the numbers the Isk ration stays around the same, sometimes worse for more items compared to a "weaker" teir

    unless at T1, T1 just sucks

    I highly doubt there are many items in Gal that can make around 4,500isk per LP, But I know of some in Amarr, issue is you might only be able to move 20-35k LP worth a week, but still

    Overall the isk per LP for amarr over the T4 and T3s is 50% to 150% better. It just about evens out
    Zarnak Wulf
    Task Force 641
    Empyrean Edict
    #27 - 2013-01-02 19:32:33 UTC
    20-35k is a horrible low-ball number. On days where I'm fighting as part of team Amarr and splitting everything I will typically pull in 50k+ LP. But on 'make some isk' days I'll jump clone back to Gultratren and make 400k to 600k LP in one day.
    X Gallentius
    Black Eagle1
    #28 - 2013-01-03 17:38:57 UTC
    The real benefit to higher tiers is easier access to your FW store items. It is really efficient for me to fly all Gallente (faction) hulls at Tier 4. Comets are now much cheaper than they used to be (as well as faction ammo) but now the supply is nearly "endless" due to being at higher Tier. The key now is to develop fleet doctrines based on Gallente faction BS (which I hear is nearly impossible for the Navy Mega) so that we can derp them into fleet fights.

    In this respect, the Amarr and Minmatar have the advantage when then hit the higher tiers since there are already well-defined fleet doctrines for their faction BS.

    Zoe Panala
    Blobcats
    #29 - 2013-01-03 20:16:47 UTC
    Tsobai Hashimoto wrote:
    Gunship wrote:
    Status report 1st of January 2013:



    Frequent topics that keeps coming up:
    [list]
  • Is the snowball effect of the LP bonus too high? (Current T1 = -50%, T2 = Standard, T3= +75%, T4 = 150% and T5 = 225%). Does it in fact make people jump for LP rather than fight for what they believe in and does the fact that the overwhelming power gain of massive LP on top simply kill off the competition as well as people leaving the losing Fraction when at T1 (-50% LP)?





    • Honestly when you start running the numbers the Isk ration stays around the same, sometimes worse for more items compared to a "weaker" teir

    unless at T1, T1 just sucks

    I highly doubt there are many items in Gal that can make around 4,500isk per LP, But I know of some in Amarr, issue is you might only be able to move 20-35k LP worth a week, but still

    Overall the isk per LP for amarr over the T4 and T3s is 50% to 150% better. It just about evens out


    And the more you talk about them, the less you can sell.
    Vaal Erit
    Science and Trade Institute
    Caldari State
    #30 - 2013-01-03 21:01:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaal Erit
    I spent 2-3 hours last night in the highest contested system in a tech 1 fit frigate (not navy) and only found farmers (with full stabs) and people who warp out of the plex when I come onto scan. You can kill the rats in novice -> medium plexs in any dumb fit t1 frigate without breaking a sweat, the system is way too easy to farm. The only person who would fight me was a random pirate. Most of these "FW PvPers" are just carebears. I want the farmers gone from FW. OP made a good post, he obvious actually undocks and does more than farm/blob. +1
    Pinaculus
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #31 - 2013-01-04 01:40:04 UTC
    Vaal Erit wrote:
    I spent 2-3 hours last night in the highest contested system in a tech 1 fit frigate (not navy) and only found farmers (with full stabs) and people who warp out of the plex when I come onto scan. You can kill the rats in novice -> medium plexs in any dumb fit t1 frigate without breaking a sweat, the system is way too easy to farm. The only person who would fight me was a random pirate. Most of these "FW PvPers" are just carebears. I want the farmers gone from FW. OP made a good post, he obvious actually undocks and does more than farm/blob. +1


    Why do you care if people farm plexes? If you chase them off they lose their plex. They're PvPing you by evading you and wasting your time.

    I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs.
    Veshta Yoshida
    PIE Inc.
    Khimi Harar
    #32 - 2013-01-04 10:29:03 UTC
    Pinaculus wrote:
    Why do you care if people farm plexes? If you chase them off they lose their plex. They're PvPing you by evading you and wasting your time.

    Because of the way CCP designed the system, farmers are waging war without actually waging war due to plexes having an effect on system/WZ control. How or why CCP is unable to address the very simple issue of farmers is a mystery to me .. they obviously want to (say so in blogs) but their changes has so far barely made a dent as far as I have seen.

    People have to be forced to fight for the plexes somehow, Merdeneth suggested auto-run defensive timers back when the war was a place for dabbling gentlemen (prior to "Throw LP at everything!") and it could work as one man would be able to 'counter' an unlimited number of farmers in a given system.
    X Gallentius
    Black Eagle1
    #33 - 2013-01-04 17:07:24 UTC
    Farmers allow for easier capturing or defending of systems nobody cares about. (If they cared, they'd show up and run them off.)
    psycho freak
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #34 - 2013-01-04 17:15:38 UTC
    Your in fw make fck tone isk and youbwhine about OGB

    ffs get your own OGB alt or fly with mates that have them not cry to change becouse your to lazy to invest in one of your own

    do you want ccp to come to your house and change your clothes for you to? talk about spoon fed players ffs

    my spelling sux brb find phone number for someone who gives a fu*k

    nop cant find it
    SeaSaw
    Tribal Liberation Force
    Minmatar Republic
    #35 - 2013-01-04 17:45:46 UTC  |  Edited by: SeaSaw
    Vaal Erit wrote:
    I spent 2-3 hours last night in the highest contested system in a tech 1 fit frigate (not navy) and only found farmers (with full stabs) and people who warp out of the plex when I come onto scan. You can kill the rats in novice -> medium plexs in any dumb fit t1 frigate without breaking a sweat, the system is way too easy to farm. The only person who would fight me was a random pirate. Most of these "FW PvPers" are just carebears. I want the farmers gone from FW. OP made a good post, he obvious actually undocks and does more than farm/blob. +1



    Good Vaal Erit;

    I spent 2-3 hours last night in Sisiede right next to the big battle in Dal farming. I don't see why you think this is a bad thing. I ran from pirates mostly. I only mannaged to get about 70,000 LP since I was driven off about once every 8 minutes. I saw pirates kill various FW enemies (and be killed in turn). Just because I was the duck they came to shoot and I ran for it doesn't mean there wasn't plenty of PvP.

    Even lame guys in T1 rifters with 2wcs generate PvP--both for pirates and FW types.

    your humble servent
    SeaSaw
    Bad Messenger
    Rehabilitation Clinic
    #36 - 2013-01-06 15:04:55 UTC
    I f we try to think this current FW mechanic on the way that it will be used as 0.0 sov warfare mechanic.

    We do not make any plexes for 0.0 but we change that killing rats affects who gets sov, as plexes affect in FW and can be compared to isk making.

    Furthermore if you are big alliance and you have lot of systems you get boosted isk from rat bounties just like you get lp in FW.

    Now if you let ninja ratters farm you rats with -50% base bounty you may lose system.

    And yes, ofc we add that anyone can join that big alliance with alts anytime they want and rat those boosted bounties.

    CCP and EVE community should now praise this good mechanic how ninja ratters would unite and come to take all your systems.
    Zarnak Wulf
    Task Force 641
    Empyrean Edict
    #37 - 2013-01-06 21:04:10 UTC
    SeaSaw wrote:
    Vaal Erit wrote:
    I spent 2-3 hours last night in the highest contested system in a tech 1 fit frigate (not navy) and only found farmers (with full stabs) and people who warp out of the plex when I come onto scan. You can kill the rats in novice -> medium plexs in any dumb fit t1 frigate without breaking a sweat, the system is way too easy to farm. The only person who would fight me was a random pirate. Most of these "FW PvPers" are just carebears. I want the farmers gone from FW. OP made a good post, he obvious actually undocks and does more than farm/blob. +1



    Good Vaal Erit;

    I spent 2-3 hours last night in Sisiede right next to the big battle in Dal farming. I don't see why you think this is a bad thing. I ran from pirates mostly. I only mannaged to get about 70,000 LP since I was driven off about once every 8 minutes. I saw pirates kill various FW enemies (and be killed in turn). Just because I was the duck they came to shoot and I ran for it doesn't mean there wasn't plenty of PvP.

    Even lame guys in T1 rifters with 2wcs generate PvP--both for pirates and FW types.

    your humble servent
    SeaSaw


    I made 250k LP last night plexing and got this juicy kill while doing it:

    Dramiel Kill

    You're doing it wrong.
    Taoist Dragon
    Okata Syndicate
    #38 - 2013-01-06 21:33:35 UTC
    FFS people farming happens in pretty much every area of eve, as once shepard said to the other 'Get the flock over it!'

    In FW you are able to undock, warp to a plex and run it down. You may or may not get attacked. If you do woot fight!!! if not you get an LP payment. What part of this is an issue?

    If you warp to a plex and there is a WT there woot! Go kill him or chase him off. Either way if you are left in the plex and they aren't you win. Run the plex. defend it if they come back or just run it down. LP payment again. What part of this is an issue?

    Seriously if all you care about is gudfites then just bugger off and become a pirate you can then jump into any plex and attack anyone you find. then see how hard it can be fo get ppl to fight you. Working as intended.

    If you are in FW then run the plex's and fight for your faction getting paid to do so at the same time. PVP and isk making opportunities wow!!. working as intended.

    If you are in FW for isk making fine go ahead fit up how you want as it doesn't really make a great deal of difference which side you are on tbh if you research your LP/isk ratio for each side you will find the difference isn't that great and being part of the 'winning' side will often make spending your LP rewards more difficult due to a glut in the market. Working as intented I say.

    Man I have never seen a bunch of whiners as much a FW people in general.

    YOU decide on how YOU play. Not the farmers. If YOU want to FW then go fight for YOUR faction. I mean actually undock and go capture plex's. That is what being in FW is about. Running the plex's pays YOU and generates PVP for YOU. If all YOU want is fights see above. Buy only YOU can decide this. Stop whining about THEM and go play YOUR game.

    /end of rant! see you on the battlefield. Twisted

    That is the Way, the Tao.

    Balance is everything.
    Bad Messenger
    Rehabilitation Clinic
    #39 - 2013-01-07 00:56:29 UTC
    Taoist Dragon wrote:
    FFS people farming happens in pretty much every area of eve, as once shepard said to the other 'Get the flock over it!'

    In FW you are able to undock, warp to a plex and run it down. You may or may not get attacked. If you do woot fight!!! if not you get an LP payment. What part of this is an issue?

    If you warp to a plex and there is a WT there woot! Go kill him or chase him off. Either way if you are left in the plex and they aren't you win. Run the plex. defend it if they come back or just run it down. LP payment again. What part of this is an issue?

    Seriously if all you care about is gudfites then just bugger off and become a pirate you can then jump into any plex and attack anyone you find. then see how hard it can be fo get ppl to fight you. Working as intended.

    If you are in FW then run the plex's and fight for your faction getting paid to do so at the same time. PVP and isk making opportunities wow!!. working as intended.

    If you are in FW for isk making fine go ahead fit up how you want as it doesn't really make a great deal of difference which side you are on tbh if you research your LP/isk ratio for each side you will find the difference isn't that great and being part of the 'winning' side will often make spending your LP rewards more difficult due to a glut in the market. Working as intented I say.

    Man I have never seen a bunch of whiners as much a FW people in general.

    YOU decide on how YOU play. Not the farmers. If YOU want to FW then go fight for YOUR faction. I mean actually undock and go capture plex's. That is what being in FW is about. Running the plex's pays YOU and generates PVP for YOU. If all YOU want is fights see above. Buy only YOU can decide this. Stop whining about THEM and go play YOUR game.

    /end of rant! see you on the battlefield. Twisted


    CCP changed FW from PVP to isk farm , so why to farm isk on side which makes less profit?
    Hidden Snake
    Inglorious-Basterds
    #40 - 2013-01-07 12:34:09 UTC
    X Gallentius wrote:
    Farmers allow for easier capturing or defending of systems nobody cares about. (If they cared, they'd show up and run them off.)



    they actually help in all systems ... becuase noone controls its home system 24/7 ... farmers add 10 - 15% each time gap and forcing defenteder to run the def plexes instead of offensive. >>> who has farmers has the upper hand. That is general problem of tier system. In case of no tiers farmers will be fluctuating between sides to gain lps >>> however there is farming lvl 2 once the control is achieved farmers starts running missions (PL farmers horde).

    In general remove the tier system and you will have more clear powers over the battlefield.