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Tengu for Level 4 not working
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Stillet0
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-01-03 16:24:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Stillet0
Hi,
I am struggling with my Tengu in Gallente space and wondering what the problem is. And my target painters seems to be having no effect. This is my first time using a TP and don’t know if I am doing it wrong.

[Tengu, Current]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

EM Ward Field II
EM Ward Field II
10MN Afterburner II
Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Shadow Serpentis Stasis Webifier

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile


Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir


I returned to eve to try out all the pimped out expensive ships on level 4 missions. Got a Machariel (pure **** in my pant), Nightmare (not bad) and CN Raven (grind) and they all seem a whole lot better than my Tengu, yet the Tengu is quoted here as being very good blitzer. With the cost of Fury missile I swear even a regular raven would be better/quicker than my tengu.

What am I doing wrong.

(ps my skills are from 2004, ample. EFT quotes 670dps but missions still take forever
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#2 - 2013-01-03 17:20:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Heavy missiles got a bit of a nerf but are still useable. Lots of people use HAM Tegnus (more so now) but I always stuck with heavy missiles because im lazy.

670 dps with FURY missiles? I can definitely say yo need to work on your missile skills.

As for the other ships, I won't reignite the eternal "Mach v Varg" debate, but I simply haven't come across a ship i like flying in lvl 4 missions more than the Machariel. I've used it running missions for all 4 empires and it just works (even though in certain space other ships are better, like a Nightmare or a Paladin in Amarr space for instance). The mach is the Sports Car or mission running and it' kinda unfair to compare a Tengu to it :) .

Now if i can just get CCP make me a special 8 gun "Angel Fleet Machariel" (which i promise would not be overpowered at all, I promise.....), then my life in EVE would be perfect.
Vir Mihir
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-01-03 17:39:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Vir Mihir
Dont fly a tengu your fit is ********. You need dual smalls or a medium AND specific hardners not 2x em resis when some rats dont even deal EM. Go self-destruct pl0x.

Not to mention supplemental on an active tank - wtf u thinkin?
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-01-03 18:04:58 UTC
Tengu was never on par with with the Machs and NMs. It's half of Mach/NM's 1300 dps. I fly both. The difference is very noticeable.

It was a good mission blitzer on blitzable missions, by only killing objective/completing mission, instead of clearing all rats. If you clear rats, the lack of dps shows. It's easier to tank due to small size, and much faster than all BS except Mach. Back when it had 125km range, the projection also helped blitzing.

Your mids need work, although it'll survive anyway just through the small sig, and it won't improve your mission time.
Stillet0
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-01-03 18:44:48 UTC
Thanks Jeen aside
I got 11m+ sp in missiles with most lvl 5. Have over an 126m sp pvp char.
Even EFT warrior “all level 5” char has less dps at 664 compared to my 670. (go figure)
Yeah mach is pure ****, might try the Vargur. (Like for you)

Thanks Vir
It tanks fine since I can perma run the shield booster, stable at 39%. I occasionally swap hardeners but it take ages to kill ****. (sorry no Like for you, bad language, m’kay)

Thanks sabre
I read the hype about the Tengu on level 4 missions. Rather than “give my stuff away” I bought one, tried it, it failed. Its range is now just over 70km and with HAMs only 30+km for very little improvement in dps. Mids -It is the webber and TP which I see on many tengu fits which seem pointless. (Like for you too)

In conclusion I think the tengu may have been a good lvl 4 ship before the latest nerf. I dunno since I did not fly one back then.
Or not when compared to Mach/Nightmare., which I do have.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#6 - 2013-01-03 18:55:14 UTC
Before the Great Drone Nerf I routinely did L4s solo in a Myrmidon. I still don't get why people think the Tengu is the end all answer to everything. Sheesh, you realize that you're just begging to have CCP nerf it, right?

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-01-03 19:01:28 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Before the Great Drone Nerf I routinely did L4s solo in a Myrmidon. I still don't get why people think the Tengu is the end all answer to everything. Sheesh, you realize that you're just begging to have CCP nerf it, right?


Meh, Caldari gets nerfed. The Mach shall never be nerfed no matter how you brag, because it is Winmatar and CCP loves Winmatar. May the current generation of devs live forever and never die of old age.Big smile
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-01-03 19:02:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitty Bear
The Tengu isn't the best L4 mission runner when only considering isk/hr
And as isk/hr was never my primary concern it does just fine for me.

EFT warriors will call my fitting a shitfit, but it works well for the way that i play the game

6x Heavy Missile Launcher II

Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
EM Ward Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
10MN Afterburner II
Target Painter II
Stasis Webifier II

4x Ballistic Control System II

2x Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

I just switch between
Precision for Frigates -> Cruisers
Fury for BC -> BS
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-01-03 19:06:19 UTC
I dunno, I've never considered the Tengu as the best mission runner by any means. I do believe it is one of the best overall PVE ships in the game.

It has the ability to run decent LVL 4 missions. With a couple swaps of subsystems and mods it can do a great job at exploration. A couple more subsystem swaps and I can get around nullsec with ease etc etc.

But never would I consider it the best necessarily at any one of those tasks. It's just easy mode.
Eternal Error
Doomheim
#10 - 2013-01-03 19:40:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternal Error
No need for EM hardeners are serpentis missions or even most angel missions. You did not list rigs. Whether or not TP matters depends on sig radius of your target. You're also using the wrong defensive subsystem.
Kiwis23
Kiwis Corp
#11 - 2013-01-03 19:44:47 UTC
Your main mistake is not using invul and using small shield booster instead of mid. That's all.
Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-01-03 19:50:55 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Before the Great Drone Nerf I routinely did L4s solo in a Myrmidon. I still don't get why people think the Tengu is the end all answer to everything. Sheesh, you realize that you're just begging to have CCP nerf it, right?


Meh, Caldari gets nerfed. The Mach shall never be nerfed no matter how you brag, because it is Winmatar and CCP loves Winmatar. May the current generation of devs live forever and never die of old age.Big smile

Machariel ain't Winmatar, it's partly Gallente aswell.
Stillet0
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-01-03 21:01:04 UTC
I am sorry I should have clarified, my tank is not the issue. I swap resistance mods as need be and can run my shield booster permanently. For the EFT fit above, I used 2 EM mods, since the tengu already has 80% Thermal resistance and 70% on Kin. Ex is low at 50% but not facing Angels in Gallente space. also is peed tanks as well.

The problem is it takes forever to complete a mission with the tengu, longer if you use regular missiles. Does anyone have an offensive solution to make rats die quicker
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-01-03 21:05:54 UTC
Stillet0 wrote:
I am sorry I should have clarified, my tank is not the issue. I swap resistance mods as need be and can run my shield booster permanently. For the EFT fit above, I used 2 EM mods, since the tengu already has 80% Thermal resistance and 70% on Kin. Ex is low at 50% but not facing Angels in Gallente space. also is peed tanks as well.

The problem is it takes forever to complete a mission with the tengu, longer if you use regular missiles. Does anyone have an offensive solution to make rats die quicker


Your fit doesn't show rigs. Could make a difference.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-01-03 21:09:41 UTC
t2 rigor rigs, implants and an afterburner.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Stillet0
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-01-03 21:24:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Stillet0
my rigs are
Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Medium Warhead Calefaction Catalyst II

and posted a screen shot of my char and ship at http://postimage.org/image/g1jc7ugcx/full/

I tried 2 rigors II and a flare II and it made little difference so destroyed them to fit the above. was expensive destroying them

Sorry hiding my real char name due to not wanting to get ganked and was also involved in the old GBC wars, and I now want a peaceful ratting retirement
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#17 - 2013-01-03 21:30:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
edit: destroying the rigors was not smart. here is the baseline mission tengu, tried and tested:

[Tengu, lvl4]

Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II

Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
Gistum B-Type 10MN Afterburner
Medium Capacitor Battery II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst II

Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst


Inherent Implants 'Squire' Energy Systems Operation EO-605
Zainou 'Snapshot' Heavy Missiles HM-705
Zainou 'Deadeye' Guided Missile Precision GP-805
Zainou 'Deadeye' Target Navigation Prediction TN-905
Zainou 'Deadeye' Rapid Launch RL-1005

I should buy an Ishtar.
Texty
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-01-04 05:52:07 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Tengu was never on par with with the Machs and NMs. It's half of Mach/NM's 1300 dps. I fly both. The difference is very noticeable.

It was a good mission blitzer on blitzable missions, by only killing objective/completing mission, instead of clearing all rats. If you clear rats, the lack of dps shows. It's easier to tank due to small size, and much faster than all BS except Mach. Back when it had 125km range, the projection also helped blitzing.

Your mids need work, although it'll survive anyway just through the small sig, and it won't improve your mission time.

Like sabre says, blitz these days means you kill the minimum rats and leave the site. Sorry if I got it wrong but I had the impression that your "blitz" seems to refer to the "kill everything as fast as possible" kind of blitz (some people used to use the word that way.) If so, Tengus are not bad for that but the other ships you mentioned are generally better / much better (but Tengus are still pretty nice against Guristas imo with its kin damage bonus and strong sensor strength)

For contemporary blitzing, Tengus are still viable. Small, fast, agile, and reasonable powerful. It's just that Machariels are broke (Fairly small, fast, agile, and extremely powerful lol.) Brush up your fitting and you would be fine.
Hazen Koraka
HK Enterprises
#19 - 2013-01-04 08:14:49 UTC
Stillet0 wrote:
Thanks Jeen aside
I got 11m+ sp in missiles with most lvl 5. Have over an 126m sp pvp char.
Even EFT warrior “all level 5” char has less dps at 664 compared to my 670. (go figure)
Yeah mach is pure ****, might try the Vargur. (Like for you)

Thanks Vir
It tanks fine since I can perma run the shield booster, stable at 39%. I occasionally swap hardeners but it take ages to kill ****. (sorry no Like for you, bad language, m’kay)

Thanks sabre
I read the hype about the Tengu on level 4 missions. Rather than “give my stuff away” I bought one, tried it, it failed. Its range is now just over 70km and with HAMs only 30+km for very little improvement in dps. Mids -It is the webber and TP which I see on many tengu fits which seem pointless. (Like for you too)

In conclusion I think the tengu may have been a good lvl 4 ship before the latest nerf. I dunno since I did not fly one back then.
Or not when compared to Mach/Nightmare., which I do have.



Actually, 670 with 6 racks of Fury is about right in the dps department. With maxxed skills (5 on everything) you should be able to bump it up by around 50 to 730 or so.

It doesn't really need to be said but you should have offensive subsys and defensive subsys to 5. The others help but you should have all the rest at 4 at least too.

That said, fury suffers from very poor range, so I tend to use T1 or faction ammo anyway (for the missions where the rats are very far away).

Exploration is Random. Random is Random... or is it?! http://docs.python.org/2/library/random.html
Gal'o Sengen
Doomheim
#20 - 2013-01-04 08:16:08 UTC
Eternal Error wrote:
No need for EM hardeners are serpentis missions or even most angel missions. You did not list rigs. Whether or not TP matters depends on sig radius of your target. You're also using the wrong defensive subsystem.


It's a Tengu worth nearly 2 billion Isk that can be killed in a single Volley by one or maybe two Tornado's loading RF EMP. The EM hardeners are needed.
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