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Crime & Punishment

 
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Low Sec Retribution
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Paul Panala
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#1 - 2013-01-02 17:35:45 UTC
So far I really like the changes made in Retribution. Or I should say, I like the idea behind them. However, I think it falls a little short.

I can now share my kill rights, yay!!! But what good is that really?

First, if I get killed its most likely in low-sec space, no kill rights. Pod killing hurts your security status so much that if I get pod killed it is probably by a -5.0 and kill rights don't matter.

Now lets say I did get kill rights and I want my revenge, so I make the kill rights public and set a bounty!! Wait, who is going to see that? By default the Overview doesn't show activatable kill rights. I suggest that the default overview should have that icon enabled and order moved just above Terrible and Bad standings.

So really what I got from Retribution is...not a lot of retribution.

Would it really be that bad to give kill rights in low sec after an unprovoked attack? A change like that would not have any impact on people who live and operate out of low sec or have less than -5.0 security. Really what it would do is make high sec slight more dangerous (at least for people who try to live a double life), and make low sec fights more meaningful (people who care about being able to fly safely in high sec might think twice about killing for fun).

To contenue the scale of system security from most safest to least safe, maybe only give kill rights in 0.4 and 0.3 systems. Null of course is no rules, anything goes, I am glad there are no kill rights there.
PO3T
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2013-01-02 18:41:39 UTC
Thats why you have us Big smile

Check this out....

Might be what you are looking for.

Regards,
the friendly bounty hunter from around the corner
Paul Panala
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#3 - 2013-01-02 18:47:10 UTC
PO3T wrote:
Thats why you have us Big smile

Check this out....

Might be what you are looking for.

Regards,
the friendly bounty hunter from around the corner


Cool idea, I will keep you guys in mind!! My point, and you probalby agree given your line of work, is that kill rights are too hard to get given the current system. If someone kills you in 0.4 or 0.3, then I think it is only fair to get kill rights.
PO3T
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-01-02 18:59:09 UTC
If I get you right, you're referring to shipkill in low sec...
tbh I like it the way it is. Not because I think there are plenty of killrights available - there always can be more P - but because if someone gets shipkilled in low sec, its partially his fault. I mean you have to enter into low sec, prior of being killed in low sec Blink

But what I've seen so far, is that there is still lots of people flying around, being AFK on gates in High sec, with public killrights on them. And that sight aint that rare, I can assure you that.

I am not a CCP desciple, who unconditionally accepts what they throw at us... hell if anything you may call me a skeptic.
But I really do like Retribution. In order to make the changes effective, it just requires a little adaption/flexibility on our side...
Paul Panala
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#5 - 2013-01-02 19:21:31 UTC
Mainly, I just don't like it when people who are otherwise carebares go to low sec, get a few ship kills for fun and then fly back to high sec for safety. I think doing that should generate kill rights, that is all.

Yes, I got a guy a few days ago auto piloting with kill rights, I know it happens, its just rare.
Forum Clone 77777
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-01-03 01:17:03 UTC
It works perfectly fine the way it is, no need to make ship aggression in lowsec grant killrights.
Xylorn Hasher
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-01-03 08:25:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Xylorn Hasher
Paul Panala wrote:
So far I really like the changes made in Retribution. Or I should say, I like the idea behind them. However, I think it falls a little short.

I can now share my kill rights, yay!!! But what good is that really?

First, if I get killed its most likely in low-sec space, no kill rights. Pod killing hurts your security status so much that if I get pod killed it is probably by a -5.0 and kill rights don't matter.

Would it really be that bad to give kill rights in low sec after an unprovoked attack? A change like that would not have any impact on people who live and operate out of low sec or have less than -5.0 security. Really what it would do is make high sec slight more dangerous (at least for people who try to live a double life), and make low sec fights more meaningful (people who care about being able to fly safely in high sec might think twice about killing for fun).



Do you really think that would make any change to for people like me who holds outlaw status constantly for years?
At them moment 83 people have killrights on me cuz I am addicted to podkilling and i never saw any of them trying to hunt me down.

I would like to see bounty hunters roaming in lowsec trying to make ISKies from that but we all know how it would end for them.

New system is good for yarrbears - people who come to score a kill in lowsec but then come back to high to do their carbear things. No killrights for ship kill is great change.

All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana consumption.
Paul Panala
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#8 - 2013-01-03 16:14:08 UTC
@Xylorn
You are right, that change would not impact you, I don't think it should. Outlaws roaming low sec it part of the game and I don't want it to change.

@Clone
It does work as currently implemented. It would also work the other way.

It really comes down to the philosophical question of “what is low sec space?” To me Null is the area without rules, you can do whatever you want without consequence. Low has some rules and restrictions, and things you do can have small consequences. Awarding kill rights for illegal ship kills would add a minor consequence to that action. If you want to kill ships without that consequence, do it in Null (or join FW), if you don’t care about kill rights, then nothing has changed, keep shooting away.

I understand different people will have different points of view, but that is my opinion.
Springe
Bastelrunde EV
#9 - 2013-01-03 17:03:53 UTC
PO3T wrote:
If I get you right, you're referring to shipkill in low sec...
tbh I like it the way it is. Not because I think there are plenty of killrights available - there always can be more P - but because if someone gets shipkilled in low sec, its partially his fault. I mean you have to enter into low sec, prior of being killed in low sec Blink

But what I've seen so far, is that there is still lots of people flying around, being AFK on gates in High sec, with public killrights on them. And that sight aint that rare, I can assure you that.


No you don't get him right.
For now there are still "old" killrights left, from before the patch. As soon as those are gone your business will pretty much fall apart. The only people with killrights will be flashy reds, or suicide gankers. None of those will be anywhere near afk in hisec.
Forum Clone 77777
Doomheim
#10 - 2013-01-04 03:06:06 UTC
Paul Panala wrote:
@Xylorn
@Clone
It does work as currently implemented. It would also work the other way.

It really comes down to the philosophical question of “what is low sec space?” To me Null is the area without rules, you can do whatever you want without consequence. Low has some rules and restrictions, and things you do can have small consequences. Awarding kill rights for illegal ship kills would add a minor consequence to that action. If you want to kill ships without that consequence, do it in Null (or join FW), if you don’t care about kill rights, then nothing has changed, keep shooting away.

I understand different people will have different points of view, but that is my opinion.

That wont be a "small" consequence, just saying, and it would completely take away any willingness of any highsec player/corp/alliance to wanna go have some fun in lowsec (which is where all the fun is at)
No highsec anything would willingly get themselves a killright cause its basically the same as being -5 if you find the right (or wrong) people.
Such a change would do soooo much bad and.. Well, I personally dont see any good come from it, so why would such a change happen?
I dont get why youre whining about it at all anyway, Ive had abit of thought and I cant come up with 1 good reason why anyone would be butthurt they dont get a killright from losing their ship to someone in lowsec.
Paul Panala
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#11 - 2013-01-04 04:16:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Paul Panala
Forum Clone 77777 wrote:
[quote=Paul Panala]@Xylorn
Such a change would do soooo much bad and.. Well, I personally dont see any good come from it, so why would such a change happen?
I dont get why youre whining about it at all anyway, Ive had abit of thought and I cant come up with 1 good reason why anyone would be butthurt they dont get a killright from losing their ship to someone in lowsec.


It sounds like you are saying "its not broke, don't fix it." Don't you realize that up until Retribution pilots DID get kill rights for losing ships in low-sec space? I am not suggesting some crazy new idea, I am saying, why can't it be the way it always was??? Heck, I even suggested meeting halfway, only giving kill rights in 0.3 and 0.4 systems, not lower.

For people who enjoy fights in low-sec and then running to the safety of high-sec, yeah, it would make life a little harder. However, people like that have always been at risk, the pilot you killed DID get kill rights on you and could have hunted you in high-sec if they wanted to. The only real change is being able to assign kill-rights, which helps younger players and players who chose not to train combat skills.

I find it funny that a patch called Retribution, where CCP made such a big deal about getting revenge, actually makes it harder to get revenge.

Anyway, if they did implement such a change and someone made a kill right against you public, you have an easy out, just get in a cheap ship and have one of your friends activate the kill rights. At least as far as I know kill rights are only good for one kill.

I am not sure how I feel about being able to make kill rights public. I see your point, that makes high-sec VERY dangerous. I would actually prefer it if they could only be assigned to a player or corp.

As far as why? That is easy. Lets say I am in low-sec for a reason other than random fights, there are several. You see me and fight, I lose because I don't have a PvP fit. You attacked me, I would like to be able to go get another ship and attack you back, but so many just run an hide in high. I am not saying you would, but a lot of people only take cheap shots, Retribution claimed it was going to fix that, it didn't, it actually made it wrose.
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-01-04 04:43:03 UTC
Kill Rights, now just as pointless as they ever were.
VegasMirage
Blank-Space
Northern Coalition.
#13 - 2013-01-04 06:02:17 UTC
Xolve wrote:
Kill Rights, now just as pointless as they ever were.


I don't know, the guy posting above with the lossmail links made it personal

I just hope when you kill them, you send some kind of indication who sent you hunting

no more games... it's real this time!!!
Xylorn Hasher
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-01-04 07:53:33 UTC
Killrights are meaningless, my wingman was mining with his Orca and Hulks in hisec when 4 guys had killrights on him. Funny thing was they live just 2 jumps away. Do you think they ever come and check what is he doing? Nah..

Retribution was advertised as a punishemnt system for those who do crimes, but except for nerfing griefers hardly in hisec Retribution is biggest long time needed piracy buff ever made by CCP.

Surprisingly Retribution increased traffic in lowsec highly - just last night 15 kills in 3 hours of playing.

CCP loves Pirates again \o/

All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana consumption.
PO3T
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2013-01-08 14:44:55 UTC
Springe wrote:
PO3T wrote:
If I get you right, you're referring to shipkill in low sec...
tbh I like it the way it is. Not because I think there are plenty of killrights available - there always can be more P - but because if someone gets shipkilled in low sec, its partially his fault. I mean you have to enter into low sec, prior of being killed in low sec Blink

But what I've seen so far, is that there is still lots of people flying around, being AFK on gates in High sec, with public killrights on them. And that sight aint that rare, I can assure you that.


No you don't get him right.
For now there are still "old" killrights left, from before the patch. As soon as those are gone your business will pretty much fall apart. The only people with killrights will be flashy reds, or suicide gankers. None of those will be anywhere near afk in hisec.


http://blackdawnrising.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15817023
Wasn't an old Killright

http://blackdawnrising.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15805821
Wasn't an old Killright

http://blackdawnrising.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15803874
Wasn't an old killright

...

As you might notice, I could go on like that for a while...

Of course I am realistic and consider the fact, that our business might reduce in activity some day. But at the same time I am sure, there will always be guys - like you - who think Retribution is broken. Possible also that you guys simply don't care about the risk - at least thats the b***s*** excuse every single of our targets gives me, once they lose 2 Bill ISK.

But you have to admit: there seems to be a pattern Lol
PO3T
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2013-01-08 14:54:52 UTC  |  Edited by: PO3T
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
Killrights are meaningless, my wingman was mining with his Orca and Hulks in hisec when 4 guys had killrights on him. Funny thing was they live just 2 jumps away. Do you think they ever come and check what is he doing? Nah..

Retribution was advertised as a punishemnt system for those who do crimes, but except for nerfing griefers hardly in hisec Retribution is biggest long time needed piracy buff ever made by CCP.

Surprisingly Retribution increased traffic in lowsec highly - just last night 15 kills in 3 hours of playing.

CCP loves Pirates again \o/


Same answer as above. Please go on with your activities. We live on your missbehaviour.

That the mentioned guys just don't want do releave your friend of his Orca is sad. Its even more sad, that they didn't at least make the Killright public Sad But hey, my message can't reach every good soul in EVE.
Please have at above kills. PM the guys and ask em, if they feel punished.

I truly hope that the traffic in low sec increases... cuz at the same time traffic at our gates increase as well. The only difference: we make more ISK then you ;)
Paul Panala
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#17 - 2013-01-08 15:07:05 UTC
Wow, those are some imprvessive kills!!! I love the Ora. People will have to learn that if you mess around in low you might get killed in high. Still wish we could get kill rights for ship kills. Oh well, I guess from now on when I roam in low I will take a blank pod, that way if I lose my ship I can bait them with the pod to earn the KR.
Karrl Tian
Doomheim
#18 - 2013-01-08 17:54:12 UTC
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
Killrights are meaningless, my wingman was mining with his Orca and Hulks in hisec when 4 guys had killrights on him. Funny thing was they live just 2 jumps away. Do you think they ever come and check what is he doing? Nah..

CCP loves Pirates again \o/


CCP can't do anything about apathy.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2013-01-08 18:54:51 UTC
Springe wrote:
None of those will be anywhere near afk in hisec.

It's funny that you say that, because i often park my pod at a random moon in the system i ganked something in ...
... and then leave the computer for a smoke or something.

I feel some irony and humour in this.
PO3T
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2013-01-09 00:18:02 UTC
lol that was fun today.
People at least try something new...Guy tries to bait in his Geddon navy issue. We attack and surprise, two Guardians start to rep him, while he tries to apply his damage.
More of our DPS warps in, targets are called. Logis go down, Geddon goes down as well. Loot is taken - a successfuly day Cool

http://blackdawnrising.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15829640
http://blackdawnrising.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15829703
http://blackdawnrising.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15829690

Good fight guys. Has been lots of fun - especially seeing that people use the new mechanics, and don't just complain about them.