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CCP, why allow one alliance so much influence?

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Dave stark
#41 - 2013-01-02 15:57:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Catharian Sabezan wrote:
Dave stark wrote:


nothing strange at all, if you want a monopoly on a resource you go and take it. this is eve, that's what you do. nothing strange about it.
those multiple people and alliances are, guess what... goons, the ones that own the tech moons, etc. could your point be any more counter productive?

1) as it should be. why should the most lucrative missions be in high sec? you want the reward, take the risk. besides, level 4 missions are still more than lucrative or people wouldn't run them as much as they do, or bot them as much as they do (if that en24 article can be believed)
in addition; most people in 0.0 have high sec alts for isk making so removing level 5s from high sec is going to hurt people in null sec alliances (like goons) more than it'll ever help them.

2) i fail to see how this helps goons in any way, they don't have a monopoly on minerals. i fail to see how this is even a point.

3) and how did 11% npc corp tax benefit goons? oh wait, it doesn't. it doesn't affect them one way or another.

4) no, i don't believe it based on how flimsy your other arguments have been. regardless; again, how does this benefit the goons? if anything it removes a source of easy isk they could have been exploiting. hence if anything, this is ccp NOT bending over backwards for goons.

were you, perchance, dropped on your head as an infant?


here we go, point by point.

1. Thanks for agreeing with me, that the goons have benefitted tremendously from lvl 5's being moved out of highsec.

2. And hulkageddon/goongeddon doesnt raise mineral prices? This in addition to the mission loot nerf has raised mineral prices for everyone, except in goon space, where they mine in peace.

3. the 11% tax doesnt directly help GS financially, but it satisfies alot of the demands by Goons to do so, in order to try to force people out of high sec where they can get some easy kills. Frankly if you want more kills, stop blueing everyone and their grandmother, and voila.........more kills.

4. This does not help the goons either, but thats not the point of my post. This is something that your members vociferously argued for, and you all are now shocked? that it wasnt very helpful. well guess what; careful what you wish for, you just may get it.


1) i didn't. can't you read?

2) and what difference does that make to goons; they...

10/10, you got me. trolling at it's finest.

edit: also you implied i'm a goon, hilarious.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#42 - 2013-01-02 15:57:53 UTC
Catharian Sabezan wrote:
Check out this recent analysis of Something Awful forum web traffic over the past 2 years, done by Alexa.com. Put the interval on max (2 years) and you can see the clearly decreasing web traffic on Something Awful forums. In another year or 2, they will be even less consequential. For those of you who dont know, this is the main internet forum that Goonswarm recruits from. This allows them to run recruiting scams on new players who dont realize that Goonswarm doesnt recruit from the main Eve population.

Goonswarm's player base has already decreased significantly this year. My point, is to stop kowtowing to an alliance that will be relegated to minor status in the not so distant future. Frankly there are other alliances, and not to mention hi sec players who have deserving of more attention than GS deserves.

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/somethingawful.com



Can you give some examples of this "kowtowing"?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#43 - 2013-01-02 15:58:10 UTC
Catharian Sabezan wrote:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/somethingawful.com


http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/eveonline.com

laffo

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#44 - 2013-01-02 15:59:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Mag's wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
The only influence I am currently seeing is that apparently they are capable of generating hysteria in you.
Not empty quoting.

Me neither.


I don't see how CCP has anything to do with the actual complain in the OP, nor do I see any merit to the complaint that's actually there. In short: what.

Also…
Catharian Sabezan wrote:
Let me also give you multiple instances where CCP bent over backwards, due to the demands from Goons to nerf hi sec.
1. Removal of lvl 5 missions from highsec
2. Removal of alot of minerals from missions
3. Huge tax increase on npc corps to 11% due to whining from GS again.
4. Believe it or not, members in GS were the most influential in getting this current NPC AI disaster that we currently have.
Yeah, no. None of those had anything to do with the goons, but at least now we know that you're trolling.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#45 - 2013-01-02 15:59:46 UTC
EvE finds it's own balance. The universe isn't favorable to any group. Groups that are molded to be favorable to EvE are successful. There used to be an alliance called Band of Brothers. There were once mOo pirates. They didn't change... EvE did.

tl;dr; all of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again.

That is all.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Alara IonStorm
#46 - 2013-01-02 16:00:36 UTC
Tippia wrote:

I don't see how CCP has anything to do with the actual complain in the OP, nor do I see any merit to the complaint that's actually there. In short: what.

Allow me to go into further detail.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#47 - 2013-01-02 16:02:18 UTC
Catharian Sabezan wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Catharian Sabezan wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
translation

Quote:
dear ccp,

i am biased against goons, do something.

yours tearfully, some scrub on the forum.



Au contraire, I am merely a concerned Eve citizen who sees that dangerous misbalance of power in this game can have a detrimental experience on everyone's game experience.

As you can see by GS's declining player base, esp. this year, and now the death knell is sounding , with the decline of the Something awful forums from which they recruit, you can easily see GS is in decline.

I am merely pointing out to CCP that they can finally stop bending backwards everytime the Goons scream about something. This is good thing for the game. Whats wrong with that?


and what was the last thing ccp did to "bend over backwards" for goons?
if you can give me a proper answer to that, i'll give you a pack of tissues to dry your eyes with.

i fail to see how there's a misbalance of power anywhere either, to be blunt. at least, not one caused by anything other than the players.



Its strange that 90% of the tech moons in this game are controlled by Goons or their pets. Sorry that is not balanced, when multiple people and alliances have called for redistribution and CCP does nothing?

Let me also give you multiple instances where CCP bent over backwards, due to the demands from Goons to nerf hi sec.
1. Removal of lvl 5 missions from highsec
2. Removal of alot of minerals from missions
3. Huge tax increase on npc corps to 11% due to whining from GS again.
4. Believe it or not, members in GS were the most influential in getting this current NPC AI disaster that we currently have.

There you go, multiple instances where CCP bent over backwards to satisfy GS. Granted you are not the biggest allliance anymore, but you were a very vocal crowd and vocal crowds often get their way if they scream loud enough.



not sure if stupid or just trolling



No actually I'm pretty sure

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#48 - 2013-01-02 16:03:04 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
not sure if stupid or just trolling



No actually I'm pretty sure
I'm voting for both.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#49 - 2013-01-02 16:03:21 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
not sure if stupid or just trolling



No actually I'm pretty sure
I'm voting for both.


I'm sure

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#50 - 2013-01-02 16:03:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Also since CCP apparently gives influence based on the Alexa rating of the external sites we come from, I guess Montolio should usurp Hilmar as CEO since Reddit's worldwide rating is #133

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#51 - 2013-01-02 16:05:09 UTC
Catharian Sabezan wrote:


here we go, point by point.

1. Thanks for agreeing with me, that the goons have benefitted tremendously from lvl 5's being moved out of highsec.

2. And hulkageddon/goongeddon doesnt raise mineral prices? This in addition to the mission loot nerf has raised mineral prices for everyone, except in goon space, where they mine in peace.

3. the 11% tax doesnt directly help GS financially, but it satisfies alot of the demands by Goons to do so, in order to try to force people out of high sec where they can get some easy kills. Frankly if you want more kills, stop blueing everyone and their grandmother, and voila.........more kills.

4. This does not help the goons either, but thats not the point of my post. This is something that your members vociferously argued for, and you all are now shocked? that it wasnt very helpful. well guess what; careful what you wish for, you just may get it.


1. We dont have any level 5s in our space.

2. We got miners a buff to their income, something they have wanted for years. Guess that makes us heros of miners everywhere.

3. not highsec just the corps that provided safety from wardecs. We gave every single player corp in EVE a bigger selling point to nubs.

4. NPC AI uptate have been called for since the days of ASCN aand the changes haveresulted in slightly more funto be had with missions foreveryone including goons.


Well just look at that positive impact for everyone we have!
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#52 - 2013-01-02 16:06:27 UTC
Andski wrote:
Also since CCP apparently gives influence based on the Alexa rating of the external sites we come from, I guess Montolio should usurp Hilmar as CEO since Reddit's worldwide rating is #133


ALL HAIL OUR GLORIOUS LEADER MONTOLIO

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Mag's
Azn Empire
#53 - 2013-01-02 16:06:38 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
not sure if stupid or just trolling



No actually I'm pretty sure
I'm voting for both.


I'm sure
I concur.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2013-01-02 16:07:57 UTC
What I'm really seeing here in the OP, once you move past the hysteria and propaganda is actually a dissatisfaction with the way nullsec currently works, and it's one that I share. Alliances hold vast swaths of space not because those swaths of space are in any way profitable for them, but simply because they can, and they don't want other people to have them (I mean, hey this is Eve - if you want it, you take it. it's up to the other guy to stop you from doing so).

As an example:

Solar fleet holds the vast majority of (last time I checked) three regions, and they have the largest number of outposts in the game claimed by one entity, but they have a third to a fifth of the number of members that alliances like the Goons and Test. Why? Largely because they took it, and no one's bothered to come take it away from them.

The real question that should be answered is why hasn't anyone tried to challenge Solar for their space? Especially with one of their larger allies (IRC) embroiled in a war with Razor, and shedding members left right and center, this would be a prime opportunity (you would think), to go knocking on Solar's door. And i don't mean a lol challenge drop an SBU or two and whelp off when they show up to destroy them. I mean an all out, no holds barred, drop a 500 man fleet on a system and wrest control of it from them.

There's a couple of reasons:
1. Sov grinds are dull, boring work, and taking all those systems from Solar would take a long, LONG time.
2. Most of the systems you'd get aren't worth having, which is why even though Solar owns them, no one lives there.
3. once you have the system, it's not going to make you any more money than it made Solar fleet, unless you take one of their Core systems.
4. Taking one of their Core systems would require you to take some of the other systems to base out of. (See #1-3).

Sov warfare in Eve is a crappy system for holding territory, and everyone knows it. I don't know of anyone (though I realize I'm generalizing) that likes it, because it doesn't promote anything resembling excitement - it promotes something that feels a lot more like actual work, which is, tbh, bad in any game.

The problem really boils down to - sov warfare is broken and no one, including CCP, knows how to make it not broken. They are some ideas floating around, but none of them, imo, yields a better system than the one we have now, nor does anything to stymie the kind of power projection we see in the game now.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Dave stark
#55 - 2013-01-02 16:08:57 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
3. not highsec just the corps that provided safety from wardecs. We gave every single player corp in EVE a bigger selling point to nubs.


don't give up the good fight.

i'm still looking for a reason to leave my wardec immune tax haven npc corp (can't tax mining, aww yeah!). make it happen, ccp will bend over backwards for you, if you ask them!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#56 - 2013-01-02 16:20:36 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
3. not highsec just the corps that provided safety from wardecs. We gave every single player corp in EVE a bigger selling point to nubs.


don't give up the good fight.

i'm still looking for a reason to leave my wardec immune tax haven npc corp (can't tax mining, aww yeah!). make it happen, ccp will bend over backwards for you, if you ask them!


Refineries taking more for the various empires fleet construction.They do have wars going on afterallBlink
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#57 - 2013-01-02 16:20:46 UTC
Cascade effect of poor decisions, bad judgment and lack of dev attention.

Our 'job' is to make sure, when null is revised this year, that mechanics are put in place to make it from ineffective to downright catastrophic to rely on sheer numbers .. with super-sized entities no longer having an iWin button at their disposal things should become a lot more interesting.

Landlords, renters and sheep herds will always be around but we can hopefully mould it into something a bit less static .. would personally love a revolt system that not only forces 'owners' to treat clients properly but provides a backdoor for enemies of aforementioned 'owner' to strike a crippling blow prior to an invasion.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2013-01-02 16:24:12 UTC
Yes but according to this graph I found, no-one gives a damn about Hedion University.
Dave stark
#59 - 2013-01-02 16:25:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
3. not highsec just the corps that provided safety from wardecs. We gave every single player corp in EVE a bigger selling point to nubs.


don't give up the good fight.

i'm still looking for a reason to leave my wardec immune tax haven npc corp (can't tax mining, aww yeah!). make it happen, ccp will bend over backwards for you, if you ask them!


Refineries taking more for the various empires fleet construction.They do have wars going on afterallBlink


but i have 6.67 standings, they love me. they let me take all my minerals home with me and told me not to worry about the war!

we should just apply the original logic for introducing the npc corp tax to begin with; they need money to provide the services in stations. refining should cost x isk per y m3 of stuff refined/reprocessed so they can pay to keep the refinery up to par. easy way to tax refining, at least. *shrug*
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
#60 - 2013-01-02 16:29:05 UTC
Butthurt, NPC corp OP hasn't a clue.