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Grombutz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-01-02 14:14:03 UTC
Cambarus wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


You're comparing Cruise to Pulse Lasers, ACs and Blasters?

How much DPS does that Vindi do at 80Km?
Given that literally the whole point of my post was to show that you trade off a significant amount of damage to gain the range needed to do sniping, and that this isn't worth it since it ends up meaning longer completion times, yes, I am comparing cruises to ACs and pulses (Not sure where you got blasters from, blaster domi/vindi is in the 1800-2000 dps range, not the 1400-1500 of rails)

As for resists: Pick your agents properly and it's almost never an issue.


I have to agree, sniping in missions isn't worth it. However, the CNR is still the best ship to snipe with, since it requires just the usual CM fit + 1/2 targetting range mods. If you really want to use a CNR for sniping, you can do it easily with 900 dps, and it's a hard job to find a ship which can do the same out to 190km.
Using a CNR is certainly not the best option you have, but it is a brilliant allrounder for any type of mission, regardless of what is in.
Skira Noza
Skira Noza Tax Free Corporation
#22 - 2013-01-02 17:39:44 UTC
Is it possible to use MJD inside DED complexes?
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#23 - 2013-01-02 22:08:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Cambarus
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:

It's not as simple as that. First, there is a distinct difference in how missiles and guns operate - in particular ACs will rarely get the theoretical applied dps, usually operating well in falloff. A fully skilled, 3 TE Machariel, for instance, has around 4km optimal - beyond this range, the dps is going to decrease. Granted, Mach's falloff is huge, but the dps drop is nontheless significant. Meanwhile, you get the stated 1000 dps with missiles at any range between 0 and maximum, regardless of angular velocity, provided that the target is big and slow enough (read: cruiser and up). It also has a shorter targetting range - take for instance Sansha Pirate Invasion - the mission completion mobs sit beyond 100km - for a Mach that means it'll have to fly some distance before it gets in range, whereas the CNR will simply target and shoot from warp-in location, with no need of movement.
The mach needs to move around to do missions effectively, which does make mission running a tad more tedious, but having done both I would say less so than having to count volleys when shooting rats far away with cruises. I explicitly chose not to dive into the mechanics behind missiles vs guns because it's a whole other topic that I find tilts the board to further favour turrets, especially when it comes to smaller ships in missions.

Caitlyn Tufy wrote:

I am, however, saying that stating Cruises are terrible for missions is silly. They have their uses and there are situations where they clearly pull ahead of the alternative weapon systems. Overall, a cruise CNR is a good ship - it may not be Mach, but for a navy ship, it sure does great.
The CNR is arguably the second best navy ship for missions, but that's more because the napoc and navypest are both crap for pve. I look moreso at the best ships for each weapon system though, since the one off investment of a ship tends to be small enough in the long run that the difference between pirate and navy is pretty small.

Caitlyn Tufy wrote:

As for picking agents for proper resists - heh, that's like saying Nightmare's the best ship in game, because if you're not in sansha space, you're a noob anyhow.
In terms of highsec pve I would 100% say that the order of effectiveness for lvl 4 ships goes:
Navy domi > Mach > Vargur > everything else The tengu may belong in there, but I haven't used it in ages so I don't know how it works now with the missile changes. The machariel and vargur are a nice mix of raw dps with the ability to apply it, but neither of them come close to the navy domi, due to its absurd damage projection + the tracking of gardes with a couple omnilinks. Popping frigs at 40k in a mach? The domi can pop them at 15 without even needing a lock.

Picking the right ship for the right job is of course important, and obviously if you're in a situation where cruise missiles are ideal then by all means go for them, but as a rule when I look at highsec pve I look at it as a whole, and the goal of a mission ship is to be the best at pulling in isk, not running any particular type/faction of mission.
Larloch TheAncient
Freindly Mining Corporation
#24 - 2013-01-02 22:52:21 UTC
Skira Noza wrote:
Is it possible to use MJD inside DED complexes?



Yes it is, and even in the scramming plexes I haven't had any issues with MJD's working.


Just about the only way to run complexes for sansha now adays with a battleship I've found.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-01-03 12:43:23 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
How much DPS does that Vindi do at 80Km?



With enough TE's and TC's script Op range maybe 400 Lol but yep it's worthless doing so.
Still can't change my mind about Navy Mega+rails and T2 short range ammo+CNAM, lights and sentry's, blows asses

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
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