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You CANT Nerf HighSec!

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1821 - 2013-01-02 03:22:10 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

You guys are hardly on my xmas card list but buggered if I want the whole game to rot just to spite you.

This is the closest to a good post you've been in a long time.

I'd say it shows a lack of dedication to fighting us, tooth and nail, to the very end. If you aren't willing to risk all of EVE just to remove goons, test and their friends, what kind of non-blue are you ?!

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1822 - 2013-01-02 03:23:51 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Tesal wrote:

No the point is that the CFC and HBC will have secure industry. Other people won't. Its not hate, its a self evident situation. Industry will gravitate towards the safe zones.


Except its not secure, there is nothing stopping people from coming to shoot us. The only difference is that no magic bugzapper space police will appear and destroy you when you shoot that Hoarder. Now were trying to waffle to "nullsec is safe" crap.

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1823 - 2013-01-02 03:28:52 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Tesal wrote:

No the point is that the CFC and HBC will have secure industry. Other people won't. Its not hate, its a self evident situation. Industry will gravitate towards the safe zones.


Except its not secure, there is nothing stopping people from coming to shoot us. The only difference is that no magic bugzapper space police will appear and destroy you when you shoot that Hoarder. Now were trying to waffle to "nullsec is safe" crap.

Plus you can't stuck using subcaps to shoot it.

Of course you might have to deal with PLAYERS defending it when the reinforce timer ends. Unlike highsec, where defenceless wimps will be stuck since they can't NPC corp their POS.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Frying Doom
#1824 - 2013-01-02 03:29:04 UTC
Tesal wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
So this is another "I hate groups of people so this should not be fixed."


No the point is that the CFC and HBC will have secure industry. Other people won't. Its not hate, its a self evident situation. Industry will gravitate towards the safe zones.

Actually some people will go to the larger alliances for safety as some people always will, but it will also mean that you know those areas will have a lot more people in them mining and hauling.

Someone asked me in another post if I did anything in Null other than gate camp.

The answer was yes I used to go roaming but rarely found anyone. Why because atm there is bugger all to do and what there is you are better off doing in Hi-sec.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#1825 - 2013-01-02 03:29:59 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

You guys are hardly on my xmas card list but buggered if I want the whole game to rot just to spite you.

This is the closest to a good post you've been in a long time.

I'd say it shows a lack of dedication to fighting us, tooth and nail, to the very end. If you aren't willing to risk all of EVE just to remove goons, test and their friends, what kind of non-blue are you ?!

I am sure I will get the will back, when the CSM candidates list is released for CSM 8.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Tesal
#1826 - 2013-01-02 03:31:32 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Tesal wrote:

No the point is that the CFC and HBC will have secure industry. Other people won't. Its not hate, its a self evident situation. Industry will gravitate towards the safe zones.


Except its not secure, there is nothing stopping people from coming to shoot us. No magic bugzapper space police will appear and destroy you when you shoot that Hoarder. Now were trying to waffle to "nullsec is safe" crap.


I didn't say hoarder, I said POS. Your people will form up to defend their stuff against anyone silly enough to attack it. Putting the shoe on the other foot, other people outside of the CFC and HBC get their baby titans killed just for fun. I doubt their industry will be as secure.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1827 - 2013-01-02 03:34:56 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

I am sure I will get the will back, when the CSM candidates list is released for CSM 8.


Don't make us vote in someone horrible like Xenuria just to spite you and the rest of eve-o.

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Garou Carew
Doomheim
#1828 - 2013-01-02 03:36:09 UTC
The problem for Null has no relation to the game mechanics and every relation to the mentality of the individuals that populate and more specifically control it. I’ve read these threads for sometime now and as far as I can discern the problems in Null are in the main attributable to the sorry arsed egomaniacs that control it, if they collectively managed their territories effectively they would be developing strategies encouraging Hi Sec dwellers to settle and develop industry in their space rather than continuously whine about how unfair life is. If the retards that control the mega alliances spent half as much effort to develop their fiefdoms as they put into puerile campaigns like Hulkaggedon they could improve Null considerably, this seems to be beyond the capabilities of their pathetic intellects though. In essence if Null sec characters want to see changes in the game they need to realise that there is effectively nothing that the developers can do to improve their lot until they decide to do something themselves.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1829 - 2013-01-02 03:37:12 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
I am sure I will get the will back, when the CSM candidates list is released for CSM 8.

Don't make us vote in someone horrible like Xenuria just to spite you and the rest of eve-o.

You don't joke about that kind of thing

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1830 - 2013-01-02 03:38:24 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Tesal wrote:

I didn't say hoarder, I said POS. Your people will form up to defend their stuff against anyone silly enough to attack it. Putting the shoe on the other foot, other people outside of the CFC and HBC get their baby titans killed just for fun. I doubt their industry will be as secure.


You asserted that nullsec was safe. I cited a reason contrary to your assertion. The whole premise behind player structures at all is that the player gets some advantage in exchange for protecting and maintaining it. It's one of the things CCP refers to as a "conflict driver" and essential to the farms and fields approach. If you want to be able to go and solo-reinforce stuff then I suggest you put up your own server to do it. Why should you as one person be able to wreck what 10000+ people built together? This all boils down to "I hate CFC and HBC and because one of their members is championing a balance change I have to be against it." What alliance were you in that we killed?

E: Why should npc structures that do not have to be maintained or protected be intrinsically better than player structures that have to be protected and maintained?

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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1831 - 2013-01-02 03:40:53 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:


But NPC is too good and the roles need to be reversed.


This last line is the problem with the Null Sec argument. (I say Null Sec as a lot of people who identify as Nul Sec or are blatent Nul Seccer industry Alts are pushing this, obviously not all of Null are).
Living in Null already has significantly higher Isk rewards, for a multitude of reasons as well as full local availability of all materials needed for producing all T1 & T2 ships & mods.

Therefore the argument that Null needs to be 'better' at refining & production than High because of Risk holds no water, as you already have the benefits for your risk in the Isk Generation and Material Availability.

What Null does need is equivilence in production capability. Then it comes down to player choice, which is what a Sandbox is about. If Null is made better, then you force Industrialsts into Null Sec if they want to compete or they just have to retire or find another profession. It just moves the problem, doesn't solve it.

While Equivilent facilities means that people have the means to refine & produce wherever they choose to live, and Null Alliances can do everything locally if they want to. Real player choice at that point. Lets grow the game towards choice, not stagnant perfect paths.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1832 - 2013-01-02 03:41:42 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Tesal wrote:

I didn't say hoarder, I said POS. Your people will form up to defend their stuff against anyone silly enough to attack it. Putting the shoe on the other foot, other people outside of the CFC and HBC get their baby titans killed just for fun. I doubt their industry will be as secure.


You asserted that nullsec was safe. I cited a reason contrary to your assertion. The whole premise behind player structures at all is that the player gets some advantage in exchange for protecting and maintaining it. It's one of the things CCP refers to as a "conflict driver" and essential to the farms and fields approach. If you want to be able to go and solo-reinforce stuff then I suggest you put up your own server to do it. Why should you as one person be able to wreck what 10000+ people built together? This all boils down to "I hate CFC and HBC and because one of their members is championing a balance change I have to be against it." What alliance were you in that we killed?

E: Why should npc structures that do not have to be maintained or protected be intrinsically better than player structures that have to be protected and maintained?

Oh because we form up to defend things, that's why everyone needs to just stay in highsec. Haha, no.

Maybe you don't forgive and no one talks back to you.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tesal
#1833 - 2013-01-02 03:42:10 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Tesal wrote:

I didn't say hoarder, I said POS. Your people will form up to defend their stuff against anyone silly enough to attack it. Putting the shoe on the other foot, other people outside of the CFC and HBC get their baby titans killed just for fun. I doubt their industry will be as secure.


You asserted that nullsec was safe. I cited a reason contrary to your assertion. The whole premise behind player structures at all is that the player gets some advantage in exchange for protecting and maintaining it. It's one of the things CCP refers to as a "conflict driver" and essential to the farms and fields approach. If you want to be able to go and solo-reinforce stuff then I suggest you put up your own server to do it. Why should you as one person be able to wreck what 10000+ people built together? This all boils down to "I hate CFC and HBC and because one of their members is championing a balance change I have to be against it." What alliance were you in that we killed?


You're not reading what I said and are filling in your own biases to stand in the place of my arguments.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1834 - 2013-01-02 03:42:38 UTC
Garou Carew wrote:
The problem for Null has no relation to the game mechanics and every relation to the mentality of the individuals that populate and more specifically control it. I’ve read these threads for sometime now and as far as I can discern the problems in Null are in the main attributable to the sorry arsed egomaniacs that control it, if they collectively managed their territories effectively they would be developing strategies encouraging Hi Sec dwellers to settle and develop industry in their space rather than continuously whine about how unfair life is. If the retards that control the mega alliances spent half as much effort to develop their fiefdoms as they put into puerile campaigns like Hulkaggedon they could improve Null considerably, this seems to be beyond the capabilities of their pathetic intellects though. In essence if Null sec characters want to see changes in the game they need to realise that there is effectively nothing that the developers can do to improve their lot until they decide to do something themselves.


This game is all about numbers if you think alliances don't want good industrialists joining and moving out to nullsec you are myopic. The problem is there is no incentive for industrialists to leave highsec and come live out in null.

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La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1835 - 2013-01-02 03:43:23 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Tesal wrote:


You're not reading what I said and are filling in your own biases to stand in the place of my arguments.


I'm reading your posts and breaking them down to their simplest components. Why don't you answer my questions?

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Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1836 - 2013-01-02 03:44:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Tesal wrote:

I didn't say hoarder, I said POS. Your people will form up to defend their stuff against anyone silly enough to attack it. Putting the shoe on the other foot, other people outside of the CFC and HBC get their baby titans killed just for fun. I doubt their industry will be as secure.



Nullsec industry is as safe as the players are able to make it. It isn't safe by default, we have to combine our efforts to make it as safe as possible. If someones thing gets blown up it boils right down to the players not being as successful at keeping it safe as other players.

Highsec has 100% safe industry by default. They don't have to put any combined effort in to making it safe & as a result, industry is far more practical to be done in highsec as the rewards for making nullsec industry safer are non-existent. Not to mention that player built stations don't have much in the way of industry capabilities anyway.

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1837 - 2013-01-02 03:45:30 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Garou Carew wrote:
The problem for Null has no relation to the game mechanics and every relation to the mentality of the individuals that populate and more specifically control it. I’ve read these threads for sometime now and as far as I can discern the problems in Null are in the main attributable to the sorry arsed egomaniacs that control it, if they collectively managed their territories effectively they would be developing strategies encouraging Hi Sec dwellers to settle and develop industry in their space rather than continuously whine about how unfair life is. If the retards that control the mega alliances spent half as much effort to develop their fiefdoms as they put into puerile campaigns like Hulkaggedon they could improve Null considerably, this seems to be beyond the capabilities of their pathetic intellects though. In essence if Null sec characters want to see changes in the game they need to realise that there is effectively nothing that the developers can do to improve their lot until they decide to do something themselves.


This game is all about numbers if you think alliances don't want good industrialists joining and moving out to nullsec you are myopic. The problem is there is no incentive for industrialists to leave highsec and come live out in null.

We have some pretty good industrialists. You'll never catch them in a freighter, in nullsec or even in our corp. Nope.

NPC corp, highsec station for the WIN.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1838 - 2013-01-02 03:50:03 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

This last line is the problem with the Null Sec argument. (I say Null Sec as a lot of people who identify as Nul Sec or are blatent Nul Seccer industry Alts are pushing this, obviously not all of Null are).
Living in Null already has significantly higher Isk rewards, for a multitude of reasons as well as full local availability of all materials needed for producing all T1 & T2 ships & mods.

Therefore the argument that Null needs to be 'better' at refining & production than High because of Risk holds no water, as you already have the benefits for your risk in the Isk Generation and Material Availability.

What Null does need is equivilence in production capability. Then it comes down to player choice, which is what a Sandbox is about. If Null is made better, then you force Industrialsts into Null Sec if they want to compete or they just have to retire or find another profession. It just moves the problem, doesn't solve it.

While Equivilent facilities means that people have the means to refine & produce wherever they choose to live, and Null Alliances can do everything locally if they want to. Real player choice at that point. Lets grow the game towards choice, not stagnant perfect paths.


Malcanis' tore this apart some 30 pages ago, please either bring something new or go away.

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1839 - 2013-01-02 03:57:53 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

This last line is the problem with the Null Sec argument. (I say Null Sec as a lot of people who identify as Nul Sec or are blatent Nul Seccer industry Alts are pushing this, obviously not all of Null are).
Living in Null already has significantly higher Isk rewards, for a multitude of reasons as well as full local availability of all materials needed for producing all T1 & T2 ships & mods.

Therefore the argument that Null needs to be 'better' at refining & production than High because of Risk holds no water, as you already have the benefits for your risk in the Isk Generation and Material Availability.

What Null does need is equivilence in production capability. Then it comes down to player choice, which is what a Sandbox is about. If Null is made better, then you force Industrialsts into Null Sec if they want to compete or they just have to retire or find another profession. It just moves the problem, doesn't solve it.

While Equivilent facilities means that people have the means to refine & produce wherever they choose to live, and Null Alliances can do everything locally if they want to. Real player choice at that point. Lets grow the game towards choice, not stagnant perfect paths.


Malcanis' tore this apart some 30 pages ago, please either bring something new or go away.

Suspect neither will be the outcome.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Garou Carew
Doomheim
#1840 - 2013-01-02 04:14:12 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Garou Carew wrote:
The problem for Null has no relation to the game mechanics and every relation to the mentality of the individuals that populate and more specifically control it. I’ve read these threads for sometime now and as far as I can discern the problems in Null are in the main attributable to the sorry arsed egomaniacs that control it, if they collectively managed their territories effectively they would be developing strategies encouraging Hi Sec dwellers to settle and develop industry in their space rather than continuously whine about how unfair life is. If the retards that control the mega alliances spent half as much effort to develop their fiefdoms as they put into puerile campaigns like Hulkaggedon they could improve Null considerably, this seems to be beyond the capabilities of their pathetic intellects though. In essence if Null sec characters want to see changes in the game they need to realise that there is effectively nothing that the developers can do to improve their lot until they decide to do something themselves.


This game is all about numbers if you think alliances don't want good industrialists joining and moving out to nullsec you are myopic. The problem is there is no incentive for industrialists to leave highsec and come live out in null.

We have some pretty good industrialists. You'll never catch them in a freighter, in nullsec or even in our corp. Nope.

NPC corp, highsec station for the WIN.


If I remember correctly you had the opportunity to align with a very good Hi Sec industrial corp that wanted to lease space from you in Null, after entering into a formal agreement one of YOUR members arranged for them to shift the industrials fleet and assets into the leased section of space. For your Corp it was a great joke you ambushed them when they jumped and pillaged their corpses, what wonder you can not get people to move into Null when it’s inhabited by asshats. As I said in a previous post the problem is not with the game mechanics its with the very people who infest these forums with their whining, and yes Local is a valid point but its not the fix your looking for.