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You CANT Nerf HighSec!

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Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1761 - 2013-01-02 00:15:33 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
-Reduce highsec slots and refinery capabilities.

-Once POS are fixed move most industrial capability to POS and leave NPC stations at the minimum required capabilities.

Define 'minimum required capabilities' please.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1762 - 2013-01-02 00:15:57 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
your wonderful suggestions to balance highsec industry with the rest of the game.


"**** you, got mine"


The space republican party rears its ugly head.

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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1763 - 2013-01-02 00:18:36 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
your wonderful suggestions to balance highsec industry with the rest of the game.


"**** you, got mine"


The space republican party rears its ugly head.


Hi-sec people aren't privileged, they deserve all those free facilities because they pay 0.25% transaction taxes.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1764 - 2013-01-02 00:19:53 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
-Reduce highsec slots and refinery capabilities.

-Once POS are fixed move most industrial capability to POS and leave NPC stations at the minimum required capabilities.

Define 'minimum required capabilities' please.



Enough to build 2500 BS a month, as new players usually do.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1765 - 2013-01-02 00:20:12 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
-Reduce highsec slots and refinery capabilities.

-Once POS are fixed move most industrial capability to POS and leave NPC stations at the minimum required capabilities.

Define 'minimum required capabilities' please.


As in people would be comfortably be able to refine/manufacture using stations but they will not be as competitive with those players choosing to do those activities in POS. Also the competitiveness of the POS will increase as the area it is in increases. The idea is that people in highsec do not lose the ability to do anything they can already they just won't be as profitable as if they were doing it in other sec areas.

This all is assumes the POS revamp works and makes using a POS less of a masochistic task.

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La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1766 - 2013-01-02 00:42:14 UTC
Malcanis wrote:

Hi-sec people aren't privileged, they deserve all those free facilities because they pay 0.25% transaction taxes.


It's time for entitlement cuts to save us from the space fiscal cliff.

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Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1767 - 2013-01-02 00:47:45 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

Hi-sec people aren't privileged, they deserve all those free facilities because they pay 0.25% transaction taxes.

It's time for entitlement cuts to save us from the space fiscal cliff.

There is beer coming out of my nose.

CCP has no sense of humour.
FDIC Agent
Doomheim
#1768 - 2013-01-02 00:58:28 UTC
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1769 - 2013-01-02 01:04:29 UTC
FDIC Agent wrote:
Null Bear Rage


The part you are missing is that no one is arguing for the complete destruction of those activities. So please continue to post your wonderful counter arguments to reasonable reductions of highsec industrial capabilities.

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Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1770 - 2013-01-02 01:10:25 UTC
The part about this whole thing I find most interesting is the part where the pubbie side seems to think highsec deserves to be even competitive with nullsec in industry. The nullsec dudes organized people, fought for space, are continually defending it, and probably upgraded it, too. That's ton of effort, man-hours, and isk sunk into it and they absolutly should have industrial advantages of someone who just docked in an NPC station.

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Tesal
#1771 - 2013-01-02 01:11:40 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Tesal wrote:

A circle jerk consensus.


A shining example of a ~highsec intellectual~'s contribution to the thread. Please tell us more about your wonderful suggestions to balance highsec industry with the rest of the game.

I'm not an intellectual and neither are you.

As for nerfs and buffs, I've already said my piece in this thread. You just don't like what I have to say because it goes against your consensus.

tl;dr Its already balanced. Don't screw it up.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1772 - 2013-01-02 01:14:16 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Tesal wrote:


As for nerfs and buffs, I've already said my piece in this thread. You just don't like what I have to say because it goes against your consensus.

tl;dr Its already balanced. Don't screw it up.


Except you've never clearly explained why its balanced. All you've said is if we change it, it will wreck your game and you'd quit.

E: Considering how you've acted in this thread I'm not sure if you quitting would be a loss.

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Frying Doom
#1773 - 2013-01-02 01:58:38 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
The part about this whole thing I find most interesting is the part where the pubbie side seems to think highsec deserves to be even competitive with nullsec in industry. The nullsec dudes organized people, fought for space, are continually defending it, and probably upgraded it, too. That's ton of effort, man-hours, and isk sunk into it and they absolutly should have industrial advantages of someone who just docked in an NPC station.

Ok I have 2 points on this as I have been called a pubbie often enough.

I don't feel this is an issue of Null vs Hi-sec but an issue of NPC vs player owned. Yes more dangerous space should have an advantage but the difference should be closer than NPC to PC structures are now.

As to Null sec I personally would like to see the space controlled by those who use it rather than those that only go to a system when it is under attack.

This way casual players will also be more useful in Null as although they do not contribute a lot there hours of play will still add to the usage of a system.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#1774 - 2013-01-02 02:01:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Tesal wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
We have somewhat of a consensus at least:

-Make NPC corps less competitive.

-Make Outposts better.

-Reduce highsec slots and refinery capabilities.

-Rebalance mineral distribution across the ores.

-Once POS are fixed move most industrial capability to POS and leave NPC stations at the minimum required capabilities.


A circle jerk consensus.

As I believe you would include me in that I feel I should respond.

All you have really said so far is that hi-sec should be the area with the highest rewards and the lowest risk and that NPC structures should rule.

As to circle jerk, that would indicate that I am in league with these people some of whom are Goons. Not even close, I would like to see the game prosper in all avenues not just one.

I believe farmville might be a better game for you.

The amount you are willing to risk should be tied to what you gain.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1775 - 2013-01-02 02:09:39 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
-Reduce highsec slots and refinery capabilities.

-Once POS are fixed move most industrial capability to POS and leave NPC stations at the minimum required capabilities.

Define 'minimum required capabilities' please.


Seeing as nullsec's current capabilities are apparently suitable in some people's minds, I propose refineries or production slots, but not both, 35% base on the refineries and only 20 slots on the production stations. And separated by a few jumps of lowsec, can't forget that.

Seems fair. Twisted

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Frying Doom
#1776 - 2013-01-02 02:09:43 UTC
Tesal wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Tesal wrote:

A circle jerk consensus.


A shining example of a ~highsec intellectual~'s contribution to the thread. Please tell us more about your wonderful suggestions to balance highsec industry with the rest of the game.

I'm not an intellectual and neither are you.

As for nerfs and buffs, I've already said my piece in this thread. You just don't like what I have to say because it goes against your consensus.

tl;dr Its already balanced. Don't screw it up.

How is it in anyway balanced?

NPC structures rule the roost, it I want to build something is it worth while paying for a structure of my own and building from it, I am spending out isk and what do I see for the return? A bill for fuel costs far higher than if I just built in a station.

Maybe research yes i miss the 30 day queue and get a massively higher bill for saving those 30 days and getting a 25% reward, unfortunately the cost is a lot higher than what those compensate for.

How about I want to live in lo-sec and mine, great but same thing I cannot refine at a POS as I will lose 25% of what I mined, I am once again left with hauling it to an NPC station increasing my risk above what profit will provide for.

So if we leave it with what you call "balanced" we would be better just having Hi-sec with some combat arenas as the rest of space is really just good for PvP and shooting some red crosses.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1777 - 2013-01-02 02:11:55 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
All you have really said so far is that hi-sec should be the area with the highest rewards and the lowest risk and that NPC structures should rule.

As to circle jerk, that would indicate that I am in league with these people some of whom are Goons. Not even close, I would like to see the game prosper in all avenues not just one.

I believe farmville might be a better game for you.

The amount you are willing to risk should be tied to what you gain.

What do you risk in farmville?

Oh, I see what you're getting at ...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1778 - 2013-01-02 02:12:43 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
-Reduce highsec slots and refinery capabilities.

-Once POS are fixed move most industrial capability to POS and leave NPC stations at the minimum required capabilities.

Define 'minimum required capabilities' please.


Seeing as nullsec's current capabilities are apparently suitable in some people's minds, I propose refineries or production slots, but not both, 35% base on the refineries and only 20 slots on the production stations. And separated by a few jumps of lowsec, can't forget that.

Seems fair. Twisted

Insert some whining about newbies making 1000s of drakes a day here.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Frying Doom
#1779 - 2013-01-02 02:17:35 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
-Reduce highsec slots and refinery capabilities.

-Once POS are fixed move most industrial capability to POS and leave NPC stations at the minimum required capabilities.

Define 'minimum required capabilities' please.

My personal feelings are that NPC stations with current 50% refineries should be dropped to 30% and those currently at 30% should be dropped to 10% so it is still possible to have a 100% refine at most NPC stations if you are prepared to skill for them

As to manufacturing, copy, ect.. slots the base should be the cost to run a research or manufacturing POS/the number of slots +10%

Effectively so it is 10% more expensive to use an NPC station than having your own POS.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Tesal
#1780 - 2013-01-02 02:17:38 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Except you've never clearly explained why its balanced. All you've said is if we change it, it will wreck your game and you'd quit.

E: Considering how you've acted in this thread I'm not sure if you quitting would be a loss.


The HBC and CFC don't need, nor should they get, more power than they already have. If null wasn't so blued up it might be worthwhile to change things. Its best to keep power divided between null, low and hi-sec.

I won't quit if hi-sec gets nuked, just unsub my industrial character who will be useless.

Also, serious Goons make me laugh. You make me laugh. So rage on for the greater glory of Goonswarm.