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margin trading
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Useful Alt
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-01-01 17:40:31 UTC
no I'm not complaining about scam, these i don't care

what I dislike about this skill is the fact that you can increase / manipulate price of rare module if you have time

this wasn't the case when these modules was contract only, you were not able to do this

now you can
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#2 - 2013-01-01 17:54:27 UTC
How does this differ from modifying the value using contracts? You could make "buy orders" on contracts too to make it look differently, if anything it was easier on contracts since everyone could see it, here you can only manipulate region wise...?

/c

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Theodora Carac
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-01-01 17:56:42 UTC
Here you can use fake orders to manipulate with no financial risk to yourself.
Hannah Flex
#4 - 2013-01-01 18:00:22 UTC
Welcome to greater competition on the open market. The Margin Trading skill is absolutely necessary for straightup traders. I need to be able to put all those orders up to stay competitive with the 0.1 iskers. One thing I noticed about the market (speaking about Jita and surroundings here) It's 95% diligent dudes or no life order babysitters who sit there staring at their orders all day, 4% bots and 1% manipulators and scammers.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-01-01 18:05:31 UTC
Hannah Flex wrote:
Welcome to greater competition on the open market. The Margin Trading skill is absolutely necessary for straightup traders. I need to be able to put all those orders up to stay competitive with the 0.1 iskers. One thing I noticed about the market (speaking about Jita and surroundings here) It's 95% diligent dudes or no life order babysitters who sit there staring at their orders all day, 4% bots and 1% manipulators and scammers.


How about implementing a system to prevent thins kind of BS 0.01 isk war? ake it so it cost more to constantly change your buy/sell order and this crap will be gone. For someone who's not putting the market play in his priority, setting up a an order is just a giant waste of time because you get undercutted all the damn time. I sell to buy order because quite frankly, I don't have the will to fight these wars.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#6 - 2013-01-01 18:06:56 UTC
Useful Alt wrote:
no I'm not complaining about scam, these i don't care

what I dislike about this skill is the fact that you can increase / manipulate price of rare module if you have time

this wasn't the case when these modules was contract only, you were not able to do this

now you can
So?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#7 - 2013-01-01 18:17:21 UTC
Chribba wrote:
How does this differ from modifying the value using contracts? You could make "buy orders" on contracts too to make it look differently, if anything it was easier on contracts since everyone could see it, here you can only manipulate region wise...?

/c



With margin trading you don't actually have to risk buying them at your inflated price.

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#8 - 2013-01-01 18:25:35 UTC
Mag's wrote:
So?
^^ What he said.
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#9 - 2013-01-01 18:30:09 UTC
Tul Breetai wrote:
Chribba wrote:
How does this differ from modifying the value using contracts? You could make "buy orders" on contracts too to make it look differently, if anything it was easier on contracts since everyone could see it, here you can only manipulate region wise...?

/c



With margin trading you don't actually have to risk buying them at your inflated price.

Ahh you mean like that, yeah guess that's manipulation in a way yeah.

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Hannah Flex
#10 - 2013-01-01 18:31:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Hannah Flex
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Hannah Flex wrote:
Welcome to greater competition on the open market. The Margin Trading skill is absolutely necessary for straightup traders. I need to be able to put all those orders up to stay competitive with the 0.1 iskers. One thing I noticed about the market (speaking about Jita and surroundings here) It's 95% diligent dudes or no life order babysitters who sit there staring at their orders all day, 4% bots and 1% manipulators and scammers.


How about implementing a system to prevent thins kind of BS 0.01 isk war? ake it so it cost more to constantly change your buy/sell order and this crap will be gone. For someone who's not putting the market play in his priority, setting up a an order is just a giant waste of time because you get undercutted all the damn time. I sell to buy order because quite frankly, I don't have the will to fight these wars.


When the margins shrink the 0.1 dudes go away and my orders fill, you either need diligence to play the 0.1 game or patience for them to move on to the next thing and your orders fill- thats why diversity is key. If I put up all my buys for great margin, high volume stuff then they'll take ages to fill because everyone else and their mother is in that market, so I spread my orders out among a variety of things.

Obviously this doesn't help with whatever rare item you are trying to acquire/manipulate but thats how it works.
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#11 - 2013-01-01 19:18:38 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
[quote=Hannah Flex]How about implementing a system to prevent thins kind of BS 0.01 isk war? ake it so it cost more to constantly change your buy/sell order and this crap will be gone. For someone who's not putting the market play in his priority, setting up a an order is just a giant waste of time because you get undercutted all the damn time. I sell to buy order because quite frankly, I don't have the will to fight these wars.


You're doing it wrong. Blink
Don't bother with 0.01 isk wars, don't sell to buy orders either, just think of it as frakking up the market, it is a game yes?
Sell your stuff priced in-between the buy and sell orders, not too close to either one. Either a seller buys up your goods or watch and see the market plummet for that item, needlessly. Then observe tears in the market discussion forum -> "we just had this nice 0.01 isk war going on then someone steps in and totally ruined it!"

Market PvP can be _so_ rewarding. Lol
Opera Noir
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2013-01-01 20:06:52 UTC
Pak Narhoo wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
[quote=Hannah Flex]How about implementing a system to prevent thins kind of BS 0.01 isk war? ake it so it cost more to constantly change your buy/sell order and this crap will be gone. For someone who's not putting the market play in his priority, setting up a an order is just a giant waste of time because you get undercutted all the damn time. I sell to buy order because quite frankly, I don't have the will to fight these wars.


You're doing it wrong. Blink
Don't bother with 0.01 isk wars, don't sell to buy orders either, just think of it as frakking up the market, it is a game yes?
Sell your stuff priced in-between the buy and sell orders, not too close to either one. Either a seller buys up your goods or watch and see the market plummet for that item, needlessly. Then observe tears in the market discussion forum -> "we just had this nice 0.01 isk war going on then someone steps in and totally ruined it!"

Market PvP can be _so_ rewarding. Lol

Destroying profit margins is really a lot of fun. Also it really really makes people mad, so it's like bonus points.Big smile Also its a good way to make money while making others miserable.
Darth Khasei
Wavestar Business Ventures Inc.
#13 - 2013-01-01 20:17:58 UTC
Respect. Cool

If you are involved in a 0.1 isk war in a major trade hub then you are doing it right for me! Please continue this practice while I wipe the floor with the profits of your intelligent market manipulations. Shocked.
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
#14 - 2013-01-01 22:18:50 UTC
I am pretty sure anything that leads to confusion is intended.

EVE's market system is straight forward, make products available where they are needed.

The market system where margin trading comes heavily into effect is purely optional, and intentionally high risk.


If you are really confused... you can buy RETAIL @ Jita Phased Plasma ammo and move it to the nearest high-sec of ANY low-sec and sell it for twice the retail.

There are like a billion systems that need this service performed, you WILL make ISK and you will have very minor competition.

Works on most ammo types, Phased Plasma is just an example.

Now with 100% less Troll.
ihcn
Life. Universe. Everything.
#15 - 2013-01-01 22:47:19 UTC
Theodora Carac wrote:
Here you can use fake orders to manipulate with no financial risk to yourself.

It's not no risk, it costs tens of millions of isk to set the order up, and if someone kills it without your scam going through, you're out that money.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-01-01 22:57:05 UTC
Theodora Carac wrote:
Here you can use fake orders to manipulate with no financial risk to yourself.



Which is bad for game economics but whatever, there's no problem with eve economy Lol

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Merdaneth
Angel Wing.
Khimi Harar
#17 - 2013-01-02 00:49:59 UTC
ihcn wrote:
Theodora Carac wrote:
Here you can use fake orders to manipulate with no financial risk to yourself.

It's not no risk, it costs tens of millions of isk to set the order up, and if someone kills it without your scam going through, you're out that money.


There was a dude in Amarr with an order of 1300 Prototype ECCM modules or 20 million each. I happened to have a lot of those lying around and killed his order. Big smile

He's now trying it with Magnetrometic ECCM mods.
Epsilon Bathana
EPS Kings
#18 - 2013-01-06 16:11:27 UTC
Merdaneth wrote:
ihcn wrote:
Theodora Carac wrote:
Here you can use fake orders to manipulate with no financial risk to yourself.

It's not no risk, it costs tens of millions of isk to set the order up, and if someone kills it without your scam going through, you're out that money.


There was a dude in Amarr with an order of 1300 Prototype ECCM modules or 20 million each. I happened to have a lot of those lying around and killed his order. Big smile

He's now trying it with Magnetrometic ECCM mods.


You killed his order, but he got his 23% ESCROW returned and only lost his broker costs. In my opinion this is not correct. He is clearly (very often intentionally) at default and the ESCROW should not be returned to him, but to you as being the "damaged" party without you having to deliver any of the requested goods.

This would be a good change to the ESCROW /MT mechanism. For honest traders the option of a 1 day notice to the buyer for getting the extra money in order to get the goods that he wanted could be added (but the buyer shouldn't be allowed to cancel/change the order any more)
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#19 - 2013-01-06 16:21:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Ptraci
Useful Alt wrote:
no I'm not complaining about scam, these i don't care

what I dislike about this skill is the fact that you can increase / manipulate price of rare module if you have time

this wasn't the case when these modules was contract only, you were not able to do this

now you can


No one is forcing you to buy or sell anything. That's the beauty of markets. If you don't like the price, don't do it. If you get caught by the margin trading scam it's only because you were thinking like a greedy SOB. Bulls make money. Bears make money. Pigs and sheep get slaughtered.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2013-01-06 16:27:55 UTC
Posting in a whine-thread created by a random coward.
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