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Talos Suggestion
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WhatChaMaCalled ThingyMaJigy
EVOL Command
#1 - 2013-01-01 15:41:03 UTC
Can someone please help me to understand why the Talos is such a glass cannon??

I mean its a T3 ship yet you so much as throw a wet sponge at it and it falls apart quicker than a paper house in the rain

CCP can you please do something about this as the talos is a magnificent ship but rubbish.
Belthazor4011
Battle BV Redux
#2 - 2013-01-01 15:45:07 UTC
Well its not a T3, those would be the Strategic Cruisers: http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Strategic_Cruisers

A Talos is a tier 3 BC (tiers will soon be removed but for now it is), the whole intend of these ships when they were created was Battleship sized range and DPS without having a Battleship tank.

So you get the spend less then a BS but you obviously will get less as well. What you are asking is raising the tank which would just make it another Battleship and drive up the price. You are asking to make it a standard ship instead of the awesome thing it is right now.

Shame on you!
WhatChaMaCalled ThingyMaJigy
EVOL Command
#3 - 2013-01-01 15:48:47 UTC
Ah tier 3 thats the one my correction....

and yes i do not doubt the talos's awsomeness i have 5 of them as i love them that much but im finding they dont last long...

yes i see what ure saying but i would happily pay extra for a ship that can take as well as it gives.... im not asking for it to be hugely improved but when a sponge comes flying at me id rather have card then paper lol
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#4 - 2013-01-01 16:07:25 UTC
WhatChaMaCalled ThingyMaJigy wrote:
Can someone please help me to understand why the Talos is such a glass cannon??


Simple- because it is a T1 ship that can fit eight tracking-bonused Neutron Blaster Cannon IIs pushing over 1000 dps and still go 2482 m/s and align in under seven seconds even with the MWD on.



.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#5 - 2013-01-01 16:15:26 UTC
WhatChaMaCalled ThingyMaJigy wrote:
Ah tier 3 thats the one my correction....

and yes i do not doubt the talos's awsomeness i have 5 of them as i love them that much but im finding they dont last long...

yes i see what ure saying but i would happily pay extra for a ship that can take as well as it gives.... im not asking for it to be hugely improved but when a sponge comes flying at me id rather have card then paper lol




The ship you are looking for is the Proteus, which is famous for it's damage-absorbent capabilities.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#6 - 2013-01-01 17:31:05 UTC
Man, this guy would have a brain haemorrhage if he flew the vagabond.
Sandra Vellocet
Extended Industries
#7 - 2013-01-01 18:14:10 UTC
Roime wrote:
WhatChaMaCalled ThingyMaJigy wrote:
Can someone please help me to understand why the Talos is such a glass cannon??


Simple- because it is a T1 ship that can fit eight tracking-bonused Neutron Blaster Cannon IIs pushing over 1000 dps and still go 2482 m/s and align in under seven seconds even with the MWD on.





What he said...
Zakki Zateki
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-01-01 20:06:06 UTC
Tier 3s sacrifice tank for huge damage (being able to fit large weapons on a battlecruiser sized hull) so what your experiencing is perfectly normal.
Nero Pantera
ATRAX.
Pandemic Horde
#9 - 2013-01-02 05:08:31 UTC
you're pretty much doing vindicator dps at insane range....its a kiting dps monster.....it has great damage projection just dont get tackled =D
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#10 - 2013-01-03 04:57:44 UTC
Nero Pantera wrote:
you're pretty much doing vindicator dps at insane range....its a kiting dps monster.....it has great damage projection just dont get tackled =D


No you're doing about megathron DPS. The heavy drones more than make up for the lack of 8 turrets.

Vindicators hit like a truck. Were talking 1500 gun DPS without any problems.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#11 - 2013-01-03 05:31:36 UTC
Nero Pantera wrote:
you're pretty much doing vindicator dps at insane range....its a kiting dps monster.....it has great damage projection just dont get tackled =D


The Talos doesn't have any better damage projection than any other Blaster BS. It's just that people don't generally fit Blaster BS that way. Honestly if you want to talk about kiting DPS, the Talos is kinda garbage. Look to the Oracle to save you.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Spheranzinne
Color of Violence
#12 - 2013-01-03 08:33:29 UTC
The thing that sets apart the talos from the other tier 3s is the 25m drone bay. This makes it viable for solo use and u can check the vids of kil2 to see how can this be done properly. The nice combination of damage, speed and quick align times makes it also nice for small gang work and here u can look for examples in aquila inc null sec tactics.

Anyway, in both cases the fit is just about the same with small variations in the lows where u can drop the DCU for another damage mod or nanofiber. A glass canon is usually a sitting alpha duck whereas the talos can easily kite and adjust transversals.
To mare
Advanced Technology
#13 - 2013-01-03 11:02:22 UTC
Talos and others tier3 are more likely to get a nerf more than a buff in the next future, so enjoy it while you can instead of asking stupid things on the forum
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#14 - 2013-01-03 17:26:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Wacktopia
Spheranzinne wrote:
The thing that sets apart the talos from the other tier 3s is the 25m drone bay.


And the tracking bonus. Don't for get that tracking bonus. When combined with one or two Tracking Enhancers on a shield fit you're actually able to hit a load more stuff than the other Tr3 BCs.

The huge thing that Tr3 BCs struggle with is hitting smaller targets, especially those armor tanking or non mwd-ing. Those top-rack BS guns do not track all so well and have a monster sig res.

The big thing with the Talos is that you either want to keep at range, with an exit strategy if things go wrong, or just charge straight in with Void ammo and tear them up. You really do not have any staying power and if you take too long to get the DPS on or cannot mitigate it through range then you are just dead.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#15 - 2013-01-03 18:07:37 UTC
Spheranzinne wrote:
The thing that sets apart the talos from the other tier 3s is the 25m drone bay. This makes it viable for solo use and u can check the vids of kil2 to see how can this be done properly. The nice combination of damage, speed and quick align times makes it also nice for small gang work and here u can look for examples in aquila inc null sec tactics.

Anyway, in both cases the fit is just about the same with small variations in the lows where u can drop the DCU for another damage mod or nanofiber. A glass canon is usually a sitting alpha duck whereas the talos can easily kite and adjust transversals.


I'm more than familiar with the way to fly a Talos, and I'll readily agree that the 25m^3 drone bay gives you some semblance of a frigate defense. However, I've always found that range or a web+low transversal does far more. It's been relatively rare that I've killed a frigate with just my drones. The tracking bonus is cool too, but you have to remember that tracking is only one element for how much damage you do. The other is range, which the Talos is lacking. Out past 40km you aren't going to be doing much damage, but the Oracle is still two shotting AFs with Scorch.

I'm telling you, if damage at range is what floats your boat: accept no substitutes. The difference in kiting DPS between the two ships is amazing.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Spheranzinne
Color of Violence
#16 - 2013-01-03 20:17:14 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Spheranzinne wrote:
The thing that sets apart the talos from the other tier 3s is the 25m drone bay. This makes it viable for solo use and u can check the vids of kil2 to see how can this be done properly. The nice combination of damage, speed and quick align times makes it also nice for small gang work and here u can look for examples in aquila inc null sec tactics.

Anyway, in both cases the fit is just about the same with small variations in the lows where u can drop the DCU for another damage mod or nanofiber. A glass canon is usually a sitting alpha duck whereas the talos can easily kite and adjust transversals.


I'm more than familiar with the way to fly a Talos, and I'll readily agree that the 25m^3 drone bay gives you some semblance of a frigate defense. However, I've always found that range or a web+low transversal does far more. It's been relatively rare that I've killed a frigate with just my drones. The tracking bonus is cool too, but you have to remember that tracking is only one element for how much damage you do. The other is range, which the Talos is lacking. Out past 40km you aren't going to be doing much damage, but the Oracle is still two shotting AFs with Scorch.

I'm telling you, if damage at range is what floats your boat: accept no substitutes. The difference in kiting DPS between the two ships is amazing.

-Liang


Unless u know exactly what you are dealing with, trying to fit webs on tier3s is somehow assisted suicide. A tackled tier3 is a dead one. even a bc could get under the big guns.

The talk about range issues is also superfluous. talos does damage 18-34 with null, thats well within the range of a faction disruptor. u dont need more. if u want to gank a frig, that is not tryin to kill it while tackled, u better go for arty/tachs. thats easy. but kiting, to my knowledge, means also keeping something in point. who kites at the 65km scorch range?

And yeah, the drones... who said damage drones?
shall i go on with cap issues, speed, mobility, ehp or this just some girl talk? Smile
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#17 - 2013-01-03 20:21:34 UTC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYPnV1sUt3Y

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
chris elliot
Treasury Department
Plug N Play
#18 - 2013-01-03 22:11:04 UTC  |  Edited by: chris elliot
Liang Nuren wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYPnV1sUt3Y



I was waiting for you to post that lol.



Edit: The talos is fine, it along with its ti3 cousins will probably stay more or less the same save a few minor tweaks in the future so you might as well get used to flying a glass cannon when you strap into one.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#19 - 2013-01-03 22:16:15 UTC
chris elliot wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYPnV1sUt3Y



I was waiting for you to post that lol.



Edit: The talos is fine, it along with its ti3 cousins will probably stay more or less the same save a few minor tweaks in the future so you might as well get used to flying a glass cannon when you strap into one.


I find it easier to post a link to a video of me doing what I say I do than to argue with people who think it can't be done. Maybe I'm getting old. :-/ At any rate, I'm sure the Tier 3s are gonna eat a small nerf to speed and agility, but I doubt it'll be sufficient to alter the fundamental mechanics of the ships.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Spheranzinne
Color of Violence
#20 - 2013-01-04 00:59:49 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYPnV1sUt3Y


thank you, amarrian scorch pwnage absent from field as expected. web unexpected, but mostly unused.
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