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NPC AI hurting solo pvp.
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Roderick Grey
Koenigsbergers
#1 - 2013-01-01 07:34:17 UTC
Having to run from ratting tengus and drakes because the rats have switched to you is a terrible feeling.

I think CCP should change the aggression mechanics so that players attacking them take priority over others. I mean, how is attacking the ship that's killing the ship that's attacking you make any sense?

I think CCP should make it the mechanics work like this:

A drake warps into a belt and gains priority 2 aggression from the rats.

The drake attacks one of the rats granting it priority 1 aggression.

The drake gets it's drones out and attacks a frigate rat with them, the drones now have priority 1 aggression aswell, allowing NPC AI to switch in-between their desired targets.

A Cynabal enters the belt and attacks the Drake and gains priority 2 aggression from the rats.

The rats continue attacking the drake, as the drake has type 1 aggression.

The drake dies, the rats switch to the Cynabal as there are no priority 1 targets on field.

“We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.” - Special needs division of Fcon.
Kestrix
The Whispering
#2 - 2013-01-01 09:32:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Kestrix
LOL Pvp'er chased off by mission rats...

You do realise that the rats switch to you because your the biggest threat. There is not a first come first served system in combat .

You are working off the philosophy that the enemy of my enemy is my friend and it's not true. Ether bring a ship with a bigger tank or choose another profession :)

Edit: Sorry thought I was in GD then... that's an interesting idea but I'll have to give this one the thumbs down.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-01-01 09:35:29 UTC
Seems like the cynabal would be the sweeter kill with an inferior tank, so it could just as well be the primary target for any sensible NPC AI in that situation. Having NPCs switch targets in general also makes sense from a PvP perspective. If they don't do that, the game is making the situation of the already disadvantaged PVE fitted player practically impossible. It would amount to serving free kills to every PvP player who enters the field, since they only needed to tip the fight balance slightly to ensure the kill. The target switching just makes the initial circumstances somewhat equal for both parties.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#4 - 2013-01-01 10:11:52 UTC
The NPC rats will chose to swap to the attacker every time though, due to their hate of EWAR (scram+web). The Tengu could have been in that site killing NPCs for half an hour, and the second you turn a scram on, the rats will swap to you.

This could maybe use some tweaking. Perhaps make scrams and webs, or even just long points immune to this kind of hate?

Can't hold your target down without a point.
Using a point will guarantee you get agro 100% of the time.

Seems to actively discourage ganking.
Roderick Grey
Koenigsbergers
#5 - 2013-01-01 11:06:25 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Seems like the cynabal would be the sweeter kill with an inferior tank, so it could just as well be the primary target for any sensible NPC AI in that situation. Having NPCs switch targets in general also makes sense from a PvP perspective. If they don't do that, the game is making the situation of the already disadvantaged PVE fitted player practically impossible. It would amount to serving free kills to every PvP player who enters the field, since they only needed to tip the fight balance slightly to ensure the kill. The target switching just makes the initial circumstances somewhat equal for both parties.


Do you know how NPC AI works?

“We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.” - Special needs division of Fcon.
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#6 - 2013-01-01 12:18:00 UTC
Roderick Grey wrote:
Having to run from ratting tengus and drakes because the rats have switched to you is a terrible feeling.
LOL Imagine how the tengu/drake pilot used to feel getting jacked by both rats and some douchebag trying to kill them. Kinda evens the odds nowdays. What you should be asking for is a change to the missions and rats. Make missions require an omni-tank, make it so you have to fit a disruptor for NPCs otherwise they warp out when heavily damaged, etc. So both sides get an equal chance for rat aggro, and you can have a target that can theoretically pose a threat... 'Course that is about as likely to happen as CCP rolling back the new rat AI.
Tiger Armani
End-Game
#7 - 2013-01-01 12:39:05 UTC
So gankers are crying about not able to handle NPC aggro. LOL

So, you think it is fair that mission tengu should tank NPC aggro and your dps?
Roderick Grey
Koenigsbergers
#8 - 2013-01-01 14:00:27 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
Roderick Grey wrote:
Having to run from ratting tengus and drakes because the rats have switched to you is a terrible feeling.
LOL Imagine how the tengu/drake pilot used to feel getting jacked by both rats and some douchebag trying to kill them. Kinda evens the odds nowdays. What you should be asking for is a change to the missions and rats. Make missions require an omni-tank, make it so you have to fit a disruptor for NPCs otherwise they warp out when heavily damaged, etc. So both sides get an equal chance for rat aggro, and you can have a target that can theoretically pose a threat... 'Course that is about as likely to happen as CCP rolling back the new rat AI.


I'm going to ignore this.

Tiger Armani wrote:
So gankers are crying about not able to handle NPC aggro. LOL

So, you think it is fair that mission tengu should tank NPC aggro and your dps?



I'm not talking about missioning Tengus, I'm talking about nullsec.

But yeah, if the tengu pilot is too stupid to align and too stupid to check local, he should be fair game for another player.

“We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.” - Special needs division of Fcon.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-01-01 16:03:11 UTC
Paikis wrote:
The NPC rats will chose to swap to the attacker every time though, due to their hate of EWAR (scram+web). The Tengu could have been in that site killing NPCs for half an hour, and the second you turn a scram on, the rats will swap to you.

This could maybe use some tweaking. Perhaps make scrams and webs, or even just long points immune to this kind of hate?

Can't hold your target down without a point.
Using a point will guarantee you get agro 100% of the time.

Seems to actively discourage ganking.


Then stop using EWAR (scram+web), problem solved. Your opponent isn't, why are you?Lol
Tiger Armani
End-Game
#10 - 2013-01-01 18:13:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiger Armani
Quote:

I'm not talking about missioning Tengus, I'm talking about nullsec.

But yeah, if the tengu pilot is too stupid to align and too stupid to check local, he should be fair game for another player.


Care to explain how it is not fair?

You both have to tank NPC dps and your enemies' dps. Fair and square.

Try to attack C5/C6 cap escalation pve players with 10 sleeper guardians at the site. Come back after that.
Live in WH for few years without local and sleeper NPC AI. After that LS and NS is easy peacy...
Roderick Grey
Koenigsbergers
#11 - 2013-01-02 04:26:56 UTC
Tiger Armani wrote:
Quote:

I'm not talking about missioning Tengus, I'm talking about nullsec.

But yeah, if the tengu pilot is too stupid to align and too stupid to check local, he should be fair game for another player.


Care to explain how it is not fair?

You both have to tank NPC dps and your enemies' dps. Fair and square.

Try to attack C5/C6 cap escalation pve players with 10 sleeper guardians at the site. Come back after that.
Live in WH for few years without local and sleeper NPC AI. After that LS and NS is easy peacy...


I never said it wasn't fair, technically it is, except there's an extremely diminished risk/reward ratio.

The ratter only has to check local, intel, corp or alliance for me to be unable to catch him in the first place, why should rats assist him ontop of that?

Wormhole space isn't Nullsec, don't compare the two.

“We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.” - Special needs division of Fcon.
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#12 - 2013-01-02 04:59:15 UTC
Roderick Grey wrote:
...except there's an extremely diminished risk/reward ratio.
Well "diminished" is a bit of an understatement when it was ALL reward and no risk previously. Seriously, before the AI change if you caught a ratter or missioner he was dead - end of story (unless it was a tarp). Now it's a bit more of a fight. You'll just have to bring a ship with a bit more tank of whatever version you fancy. Though as you already pointed out, these are people who are too stupid to align, watch local, and/or pay attention to intel, so really it shouldn't be THAT much trouble to kill them while tanking rats. Odds are they're not gonna be PvP geniuses.

In all honesty, I don't think you're gonna get alot of sympathy. Most of us have done our share of hunting ratters and recognize it was pretty effortless ganking. Granted if I still made that my hobby I'd probably be upset as well. Hell the Crimewatch changes messed up my favorite pastime. Not happy, but the changes do level the. Much like the new AI does. Just gotta adapt with the changes.
Juan Thang
Optimistic Wasteland Inc.
Fraternity.
#13 - 2013-01-03 05:40:30 UTC
This is almost like me complaining about afk campers....
But you complaining that your ship designed to kill ships cannot, so please fit your ship better...
This is the equivalent of saying I like ratting... can you make it so that the NPC's target the structures on grid before me?
Roderick Grey
Koenigsbergers
#14 - 2013-01-03 08:57:48 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
Roderick Grey wrote:
...except there's an extremely diminished risk/reward ratio.
Well "diminished" is a bit of an understatement when it was ALL reward and no risk previously. Seriously, before the AI change if you caught a ratter or missioner he was dead - end of story (unless it was a tarp). Now it's a bit more of a fight. You'll just have to bring a ship with a bit more tank of whatever version you fancy. Though as you already pointed out, these are people who are too stupid to align, watch local, and/or pay attention to intel, so really it shouldn't be THAT much trouble to kill them while tanking rats. Odds are they're not gonna be PvP geniuses.

In all honesty, I don't think you're gonna get alot of sympathy. Most of us have done our share of hunting ratters and recognize it was pretty effortless ganking. Granted if I still made that my hobby I'd probably be upset as well. Hell the Crimewatch changes messed up my favorite pastime. Not happy, but the changes do level the. Much like the new AI does. Just gotta adapt with the changes.


How is it all risk no reward?

What is wrong with you?

“We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.” - Special needs division of Fcon.
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#15 - 2013-01-03 14:04:59 UTC
Roderick Grey wrote:
How is it all risk no reward?

What is wrong with you?
.... Okay. In addition to working on those basic ship fits and tanking skills, ya might wanna brush up on your reading comprehension as well. Just an idea.
Kitt JT
True North.
#16 - 2013-01-03 19:00:52 UTC
This thread has so much fail. From both sides.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-01-03 19:03:17 UTC
Kitt JT wrote:
This thread has so much fail. From both sides.


Nope, the fail originates from one side.Big smile
Roderick Grey
Koenigsbergers
#18 - 2013-01-03 22:16:09 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
Roderick Grey wrote:
How is it all risk no reward?

What is wrong with you?
.... Okay. In addition to working on those basic ship fits and tanking skills, ya might wanna brush up on your reading comprehension as well. Just an idea.


I'm talking about from the ratter's POV you neanderthal.

“We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.” - Special needs division of Fcon.
Aunt Tom
Dark Voodoo Cult
#19 - 2013-01-21 10:41:13 UTC
/signed

Now ratters in 0.0 space are very well protected by NPC. So NPC are guarding their killers :(

May be the better choice will be to apply current aggro-transfer mechanisms to the NPC-aggro (so that NPC won't chase ships which not attack them and not helping others to attack them?)
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#20 - 2013-01-21 10:47:31 UTC
Nothing wrong with NPCs primarying e-war, just like players would.

Solo PvPers should adapt or go play hello-kitty online.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
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