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You did it to yourselves - Yet Another Boost null/low, nerf hi thread, except not.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#221 - 2013-01-01 09:09:32 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Now, do the last step with your logic and you'll get to my point. Today null is boring, but tomorrow, after the initial "oooh, aaaah" will have settled down, it'll become almost as boring.

EvE needs new unknown, new challenges, new unseen experiences, new horizons. And copying existing and exhausted content everywhere is going to help but just for 2-3 years then you will also feel what I say now.
You have to look farter than this, the game has to start planning for new experiences today so after those 2-3 years there'll pop a new Apochrypha "much new content" expansion with new experiences to be had.

Else EvE will become the Far West game minus the Far West, that is an aging, stale shell of itself.


Look, we're talking apples and oranges here. You're arguing that EVE needs a big "NEW THINGS TO DO, NEW WAYS TO BE" Apocrypha-class expansion to regenerate and sustain excitement and interest, and I am wholly 100% totally in agreement with you on this. I can easily point to a dozen posts I've made over the last few months making this exact argument.

But that's completely a different thing to arguing that the low-level, everyday, baseline set of activities specifically available in Sov 0.0 is totally broken. It's like I'm telling you that we need to buy the kids new shoes, and you're saying no, the problem is that we need to sell the house and move to Brazil, because that's where the world economy will centre on in the next generation and that's what we'll have to do if we want to sustain our nice middle class lifestyle...

Well that could easily be, but meanwhile, our kids feet are hurting today.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#222 - 2013-01-01 09:10:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Malcanis wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Now, do the last step with your logic and you'll get to my point. Today null is boring, but tomorrow, after the initial "oooh, aaaah" will have settled down, it'll become almost as boring.

EvE needs new unknown, new challenges, new unseen experiences, new horizons. And copying existing and exhausted content everywhere is going to help but just for 2-3 years then you will also feel what I say now.
You have to look farter than this, the game has to start planning for new experiences today so after those 2-3 years there'll pop a new Apochrypha "much new content" expansion with new experiences to be had.

Else EvE will become the Far West game minus the Far West, that is an aging, stale shell of itself.


Look, we're talking apples and oranges here. You're arguing that EVE needs a big "NEW THINGS TO DO, NEW WAYS TO BE" Apocrypha-class expansion to regenerate and sustain excitement and interest, and I am wholly 100% totally in agreement with you on this. I can easily point to a dozen posts I've made over the last few months making this exact argument.

But that's completely a different thing to arguing that the low-level, everyday, baseline set of activities specifically available in Sov 0.0 is totally broken. It's like I'm telling you that we need to buy the kids new shoes, and you're saying no, the problem is that we need to sell the house and move to Brazil, because that's where the world economy will centre on in the next generation and that's what we'll have to do if we want to sustain our nice middle class lifestyle...

Well that could easily be, but meanwhile, our kids feet are hurting today.

Your kids ... :psyduck:

Nullsec, broken, harsh and cold. I think the thermostat broke.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#223 - 2013-01-01 09:12:00 UTC
The hope of the future ♥

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Frying Doom
#224 - 2013-01-01 09:27:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Mirajane Cromwell wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Mirajane Cromwell wrote:
Does anyone remember the devblog nullsec development: design goals which was released 1.5 years ago and pretty much describes the roadmap CCP has for the null sec??? Shouldn't we be asking from CCP when they start implementing parts of this roadmap instead of arguing here what should be nerfed/buffed? They already got a plan and they even asked for our input for it in the old forums (see links in the devblog). I'm hoping the next expansion starts to implement parts of this plan and I hope we see new features like the ring mining and comet mining as well...

I had a really quick look at these and it seemed the players did not contribute that much towards it. Maybe we are just more vocal nowdays.
It was around the time when they were closing the old forums and the devs didn't make new feedback threads on these new forums... so the discussion ended partly because of it.

Is a shame as the current problems are just the same as the old ones but more pronounced with time.

One thing I would like to add to this discussion is that while Malcanis goes on about Sov space that is not really my bag, yes I would love to see smaller alliances thrive in that environment and that is probably why its not my bag.

This is while I am happy to try to contribute rationally (yes a scary concept for me) I am more concerned with the game as a whole be it the fact that POSs suck currently in Hi-sec compared to NPC facilities, or the fact that there really is no reason to go to NULL atm for an industrialist. Why would you? Or the fact that manufacturing in a WH in a POS atm is a joke as well.

So while I would love to see Sov more based on usage than isk, I do have a selfish point of view in that being mostly an industrialist it kind of sickens me that I have a better isk per hour in a hi-sec NPC station than I do in a POS in the same hi-sec systems let alone in a WH or in NULL. Appologies for the elongated post but thought that there was a reasonably spot for my personal bias and reasoning.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#225 - 2013-01-01 09:37:12 UTC
Malcanis wrote:

Look, we're talking apples and oranges here. You're arguing that EVE needs a big "NEW THINGS TO DO, NEW WAYS TO BE" Apocrypha-class expansion to regenerate and sustain excitement and interest, and I am wholly 100% totally in agreement with you on this. I can easily point to a dozen posts I've made over the last few months making this exact argument.

But that's completely a different thing to arguing that the low-level, everyday, baseline set of activities specifically available in Sov 0.0 is totally broken. It's like I'm telling you that we need to buy the kids new shoes, and you're saying no, the problem is that we need to sell the house and move to Brazil, because that's where the world economy will centre on in the next generation and that's what we'll have to do if we want to sustain our nice middle class lifestyle...

Well that could easily be, but meanwhile, our kids feet are hurting today.


The apples of today are the oranges of tomorrow.
You should apply for a CSM and already draw the future and leave the near future (well, I hope!) discussions to the other GS talkers (I don't shorten in GW because that's too alike to Guild Wars).

That's why I often talk about "post near future" things that apparently have a thin connection to today, there's plenty of people who can look at their nose, very few who can look at the horizon and pilot the ship avoiding the deceptively far iceberg.

Only thinking outside the crowd and well ahead brings you to a new level and you can make it!

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Jantunen the Infernal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#226 - 2013-01-01 17:09:05 UTC
Let's assume that the coalitions would even be able to form a trade hub.

1. Trade hub is formed in null
2. Enemies/pirates notice it
3. 24/7 raids and gatecamps in the surrounding area
4. Difficult to move any of your recently bought stuff out, and how everything is centered in highsec means they'll probably have to haul it back to highsec from null after buying it anyway -> barely any buyers for items
5. Hub dies
6. ???
7. Back to Jita it is.

Creating anything like this is unfeasible as long as highsec remains the market/industry/everything powerhouse it is currently.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#227 - 2013-01-01 19:20:35 UTC
Highsec is the market powerhouse because it's people that make markets, and people are drawn to markets.

To really have a market hub in lowsec or nullsec you need to have a place where you can have thousands of people in and out of a single system all the time.

If you *can't* do that in lowsec or nullsec, then the fix isn't in highsec.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
psycho freak
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#228 - 2013-01-01 20:59:28 UTC
im all for boosting null sec

but not for nurfing any other area

liek iv said countless times null sec has EVERYTHING it needs

npc space for build slots
incursions
belt rats
ded plex
missions
all the ores
wh's


it has nothing to do with hisec tbh null sec is player controled space and look at the mess players have made of it giant coalitions and blobs takeing space left and right who in they right mind would set up assests in a non blue allaince to these giant coalaitions

pos needs a revamp defo the refine rate is just stupid but so is the corp rols and other things similar

null secers need few more tools yes but is your empire and youve built it this way get over it stop crying all the time


null sec player controled content

working as intended

my spelling sux brb find phone number for someone who gives a fu*k

nop cant find it
Onixun
State War Academy
Caldari State
#229 - 2013-01-01 21:57:09 UTC
Quote:
Most tech 2 manufacturing and even large ship manufacturing takes place in empire, yet the amount of megacyte, morphite and zydrine required to make this possible ALL must come from nullsec.


Nope. Run enough missions and reprocess enough crap modules, and you can eliminate that issue entirely with Scrap metal Processing...

Anything else?
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#230 - 2013-01-01 22:05:31 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Highsec is the market powerhouse because it's people that make markets, and people are drawn to markets.

To really have a market hub in lowsec or nullsec you need to have a place where you can have thousands of people in and out of a single system all the time.

If you *can't* do that in lowsec or nullsec, then the fix isn't in highsec.


Jita is the only system in the game the routinely has thousands of players. But there are still plenty of other market hubs.

Highsec will always have an edge on this simply because it is effectively neutral space to anyone who has an NPC alt to do their trading.
Oxandrolone
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#231 - 2013-01-01 23:16:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Oxandrolone
as this game is a sandbox somewon will just make the profit of moving it all from the HUB to empire with jump freighters or whatever.

with the session change now being shorter than the invuln timer its impossible to lose a jump capable cap ship even on pushout stations unless you dun goof.

the price might become slightly higher in empire but most people just make more isk if the super coalitions decide not to sell there minerals there.

also the volume of minerals coming out of nullsec might reduce when rorquals can no longer boost from a POS. i suppose they could just allign on grid and warp off when somewon comes into local but some nullbears might stop getting their boosts altogether.
Qolde
Scrambled Eggs Inc.
#232 - 2013-01-02 02:53:07 UTC
Yeah, it's CCP's fault. Damnit, why don't they listen?

If someone craps in your sandbox: 1. Light it on fire 2. Grab your shovel 3. Throw it back at them.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#233 - 2013-01-02 02:59:33 UTC
Oxandrolone wrote:
also the volume of minerals coming out of nullsec might reduce when rorquals can no longer boost from a POS. i suppose they could just allign on grid and warp off when somewon comes into local but some nullbears might stop getting their boosts altogether.

Rorqurals have to be in their siege mode to get the bonuses from their hull. Ie, aligned they are worse than Orca.

Most likely you'd see aligned orcas, if they had to be ongrid to boost.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Garou Carew
Doomheim
#234 - 2013-01-02 03:09:48 UTC
Have any of you null dwellers ever stopped to think that Null is exactly what YOU have made it!

You whine and fart about in the forums while you sit in null in a continuous circle jerk, if you got off your sorry arses and encouraged settlers into your area of Null you could perhaps develop it to a respectable level. The key to developing any sort of plan though requires TRUST, and that is something that many Null Sec Corporations do not deserve. There seems to be a lack of integrity and an inability to honour a given word with many Null Sec Corps, my perception is that you live in gated communities and any one outside your pathetic little dung piles is fair game to be conned or shot [preferably both if the situation is favourable].

So if you want change in Null, first look at changing your own scarcity mentality and develop your own strategies to entice players into null and FFS stop whining like pathetic spoiled brats for someone else to fix it for you.
Frying Doom
#235 - 2013-01-02 03:41:10 UTC
Garou Carew wrote:
Have any of you null dwellers ever stopped to think that Null is exactly what YOU have made it!

You whine and fart about in the forums while you sit in null in a continuous circle jerk, if you got off your sorry arses and encouraged settlers into your area of Null you could perhaps develop it to a respectable level. The key to developing any sort of plan though requires TRUST, and that is something that many Null Sec Corporations do not deserve. There seems to be a lack of integrity and an inability to honour a given word with many Null Sec Corps, my perception is that you live in gated communities and any one outside your pathetic little dung piles is fair game to be conned or shot [preferably both if the situation is favourable].

So if you want change in Null, first look at changing your own scarcity mentality and develop your own strategies to entice players into null and FFS stop whining like pathetic spoiled brats for someone else to fix it for you.

Hiding from the blob is never fun, actually hiding from the guy that likes hot dropping carriers on single ships is not much fun either but atm that is what you do in Null as there is bugger all else to really do they only have to defend space if it is attacked they don't have to use it.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#236 - 2013-01-02 03:56:40 UTC
Garou Carew wrote:
Have any of you null dwellers ever stopped to think that Null is exactly what YOU have made it!

You whine and fart about in the forums while you sit in null in a continuous circle jerk, if you got off your sorry arses and encouraged settlers into your area of Null you could perhaps develop it to a respectable level
game mechanics you are unfamiliar with prevent this
Garou Carew
Doomheim
#237 - 2013-01-02 03:58:41 UTC
[/quote]
Hiding from the blob is never fun, actually hiding from the guy that likes hot dropping carriers on single ships is not much fun either but atm that is what you do in Null as there is bugger all else to really do they only have to defend space if it is attacked they don't have to use it.[/quote]

That’s the problem though they don’t use it; their leaders either lack the mental capacity or are unwilling to develop a game plan to fix it. On one hand they whine about how the game is a Sand Box then on the other ask for the solutions for the problems they created to be handed to them, they don’t have a creative bone in their collective bodies.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#238 - 2013-01-02 03:59:47 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Garou Carew wrote:
Have any of you null dwellers ever stopped to think that Null is exactly what YOU have made it!

You whine and fart about in the forums while you sit in null in a continuous circle jerk, if you got off your sorry arses and encouraged settlers into your area of Null you could perhaps develop it to a respectable level
game mechanics you are unfamiliar with prevent this

In other words: LOCAL

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#239 - 2013-01-02 04:02:06 UTC
You can't stick a bunch of entitled asshats in lawless space and expect anything good out of it. It Just ain't gonna happen, OP.

'nuff said

Mr Epeen Cool
Garou Carew
Doomheim
#240 - 2013-01-02 04:02:48 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Garou Carew wrote:
Have any of you null dwellers ever stopped to think that Null is exactly what YOU have made it!

You whine and fart about in the forums while you sit in null in a continuous circle jerk, if you got off your sorry arses and encouraged settlers into your area of Null you could perhaps develop it to a respectable level
game mechanics you are unfamiliar with prevent this


I’m sorry to disillusion you but the only game mechanics that prevent a solution are the entitled egomaniacs ensconced in positions of power in null, in a Sand Box anything is possible they just lack the intelligence to make it happen.