These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Should the Capsuleer story include conquering the empires?

Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Da Dom
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-12-26 08:47:43 UTC
Hypothetically speaking, there are only two superpowers in this galaxy. The Jovians. Thousands of years old and partly responsible for the creation of the CONCORD system that now protects empire space, they are suspected of covertly using the empires as lab rats for their experiments in genetic perfection and immortality. Thus we were created. The second superpower.

Capsuleer's control the space economy and the vast majority of the military economy. As one, we have the means to cripple the empires economically and sustain a long seige. This fact alone should force them to peacefully submit to our protection, rather than the protection of the Jovians, who, will do nothing but sit in their fortress systems and watch us.

Ask yourselves, should our story include conquering the empires? And then ask yourself "Why?"

Because Far-que... That's why.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-12-26 09:31:14 UTC
Da Dom wrote:
The second superpower.

The Caldari State!

Da Dom wrote:

Capsuleer's control the space economy and the vast majority of the military economy.

And CONCORD controls YOUR economy.

Da Dom wrote:

As one, we have the means to cripple the empires economically and sustain a long seige.

And they can just plug off your clones and say: "Oops, sorry, power shortage!" Lol

Da Dom wrote:
This fact alone should force them to peacefully submit to our protection, rather than the protection of the Jovians, who, will do nothing but sit in their fortress systems and watch us.

The capsuleers are in minority. We are so in minority, that if we all die today, no one on the planets will notice it, maybe, except some market brokers.

Da Dom wrote:

Ask yourselves, should our story include conquering the empires? And then ask yourself "Why?"

I am a soldier of the State and I will protect the State from all enemies, baseliner and capsuleer alike.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-12-26 15:51:52 UTC
The Empire is eternal, no capsuleer or any other foe will ever be able to topple that. But, even if it wasn't, capsuleers don't have the fleets, the economic ressources, the production facilities, the population, etc. to really attempt to destroy any one of the empires, much less all of them. And, even if we had them as a whole, capsuleers are well known for having problems to work together, and focusing more on fighting each other.

So no, it's not going to be the next page in history. And no, it should never be.

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#4 - 2012-12-30 06:02:54 UTC
Sepherim wrote:
The Empire is eternal, no capsuleer or any other foe will ever be able to topple that. But, even if it wasn't, capsuleers don't have the fleets, the economic ressources, the production facilities, the population, etc. to really attempt to destroy any one of the empires, much less all of them. And, even if we had them as a whole, capsuleers are well known for having problems to work together, and focusing more on fighting each other.

So no, it's not going to be the next page in history. And no, it should never be.


To be fair, anything can be destroyed by a patient, determined enemy. Consider the power output of an Imperial battleship, an Abbadon class vessel. Now imagine hundreds, maybe even thousands of them using their engines to accelerate a large asteroid, lets say 50km across. This is accelerated over days in deep space, to a sliver beneath light speed in realspace on a collision course with Ammar Prime, or perhaps even its station. The mass of the asteroid at these velocities would be colossal, the station would be vaporised in an instant.

We are capsuleers, New Eden is our playground.

We can cloak the ships, we can cloak the asteroid too.

I say this to give you perspective, the Empire may not fall as a concept, but with the loss of its Imperial throneworld, would it survive the onslaught of the Minmatar?

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#5 - 2012-12-30 11:25:10 UTC
Kirjava wrote:
Sepherim wrote:
The Empire is eternal, no capsuleer or any other foe will ever be able to topple that. But, even if it wasn't, capsuleers don't have the fleets, the economic ressources, the production facilities, the population, etc. to really attempt to destroy any one of the empires, much less all of them. And, even if we had them as a whole, capsuleers are well known for having problems to work together, and focusing more on fighting each other.

So no, it's not going to be the next page in history. And no, it should never be.


To be fair, anything can be destroyed by a patient, determined enemy. Consider the power output of an Imperial battleship, an Abbadon class vessel. Now imagine hundreds, maybe even thousands of them using their engines to accelerate a large asteroid, lets say 50km across. This is accelerated over days in deep space, to a sliver beneath light speed in realspace on a collision course with Ammar Prime, or perhaps even its station. The mass of the asteroid at these velocities would be colossal, the station would be vaporised in an instant.

We are capsuleers, New Eden is our playground.

We can cloak the ships, we can cloak the asteroid too.

I say this to give you perspective, the Empire may not fall as a concept, but with the loss of its Imperial throneworld, would it survive the onslaught of the Minmatar?


You can cloak the ships, and yet, you can't anymore in enemy territory or under CONCORD scrutiny.
Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-12-30 15:31:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Sepherim
Even if you could do what you claim, and I am yet to see any ship capable of such a feat, you would only destroy a planet or a station. Planets have been bombed, stations have been rammed, and people have died in thousands of ways, and none of the empires were topped by that. Amarr is no excaption, you can't destroy an idea, a political system, and the will of people through mass murder, those things are inmaterial and will evolve and react to remain. As I said, the Empire is eternal, it will always remain vigilant in its place because we won't stop at anything and our determination won't falter: we will rebuild it, modify it, update it, evolve it.

Capsuleers lack that will, that unity in purpose, that clearness of thought, that driving goal that pushes the Empire.

And that's only on the political-phylosophical side of the coin.

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
#7 - 2012-12-30 15:50:03 UTC
Three of the four known Empires are already led by capsuleers.

I'd say we've conquered them already.
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#8 - 2012-12-31 03:06:59 UTC
Sepherim wrote:
Even if you could do what you claim, and I am yet to see any ship capable of such a feat, you would only destroy a planet or a station. Planets have been bombed, stations have been rammed, and people have died in thousands of ways, and none of the empires were topped by that. Amarr is no excaption, you can't destroy an idea, a political system, and the will of people through mass murder, those things are inmaterial and will evolve and react to remain. As I said, the Empire is eternal, it will always remain vigilant in its place because we won't stop at anything and our determination won't falter: we will rebuild it, modify it, update it, evolve it.

Capsuleers lack that will, that unity in purpose, that clearness of thought, that driving goal that pushes the Empire.

And that's only on the political-phylosophical side of the coin.


Well sir, given Acceleration is the result of applied force, and a ship supplies it, even a the force of a gentle summers breeze will accelerate a Neutron star to any velocity given time. The combined engines of an armada of Battleships, engaging Microwarpdrives and bolted, tethered of what ever manner of connection you choose to employ to the asteroid, it will accelerate. At a sustained one standard gravity, this will take less than a year.

Capsuleers can, if they choose to do so, exterminate humanity. I can view from orbit the planets of the empires, and I can eject a canister.

What if I load that canister with a missile, armed with a potent viral agent, and instruct them to fire simultaneously? The Serpentis would hardly turn down a fee from a wealthy client...

The Empires are Fragile, they dwell on planets, they live a single life, they learn no lessons from their own death.

We are Immortal, we die, we rise again and with the capacity to reach out to resources beyond our borders...

Well, Capsuleers of wealth such as President Roden of the Gallente Federation is a Capsuleer who walks one path.
Empress Jamyl is another who walks a path as a Capsuleer of ambition to rule.

We are a herd of cats, the only thing we have in common is the knowledge that as time takes its toll on the trillions of humans, we will know of each other. We won as soon as Roden was elected. We won when Jamyl took the throne. We won when we clawed our way out of the cloning chamber for the first time.

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]
Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-12-31 03:27:34 UTC
Kirjava wrote:
Well sir, given Acceleration is the result of applied force, and a ship supplies it, even a the force of a gentle summers breeze will accelerate a Neutron star to any velocity given time. The combined engines of an armada of Battleships, engaging Microwarpdrives and bolted, tethered of what ever manner of connection you choose to employ to the asteroid, it will accelerate. At a sustained one standard gravity, this will take less than a year.


If you are so sure about it, I certainly invite you to try to do it. We'll see how far you can get on that road, as soon as planetary defense systems and other means detect the incoming threat and react against it. I recomend you to keep your clone up to date before trying, and to make sure it is hosted in a sttaion that won't cancel the contract once the crime has been made public.

Quote:
Capsuleers can, if they choose to do so, exterminate humanity. I can view from orbit the planets of the empires, and I can eject a canister. What if I load that canister with a missile, armed with a potent viral agent, and instruct them to fire simultaneously? The Serpentis would hardly turn down a fee from a wealthy client...


Viral agents don't affect the entire population of a planet, not even a large part of it. And take time to act during which solutions can be found. Even if you could get hold of nuclear warheads or other such massive destruction weapons you wouldn't be able to kill a planet unless you shot a good number of them, which requires time. As for the canister, I doubt it would pass undetected after reentering the atmosphere, if it isn't detected even much sooner.

Quote:
The Empires are Fragile, they dwell on planets, they live a single life, they learn no lessons from their own death.
We are Immortal, we die, we rise again and with the capacity to reach out to resources beyond our borders...


Empires dwell on planets, as well as space stations and everywhere humanity has been able to colonize. They are much more extended that capsuleers, and thus much more resistant. Have bigger economic ressources and production capabilities, as well as control much of our own through our need of isk and the use of their stations and cloning facilities. Just to mention some things. So no, we are the fragile ones.

Quote:
Well, Capsuleers of wealth such as President Roden of the Gallente Federation is a Capsuleer who walks one path.
Empress Jamyl is another who walks a path as a Capsuleer of ambition to rule.
We are a herd of cats, the only thing we have in common is the knowledge that as time takes its toll on the trillions of humans, we will know of each other. We won as soon as Roden was elected. We won when Jamyl took the throne. We won when we clawed our way out of the cloning chamber for the first time.


I don't know much about that mess people call "Gallente politics", but I can tell you one thing: before being anything, the Empress was a Sarum. And that is something that remains in her blood, and brain. And before that, she was an imperial citizen. So no, we (if such a thing can exist among the capsuleers) don't pull any strings anywhere, maybe only in the delusional dreams of some of you.

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#10 - 2012-12-31 03:51:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirjava
Failpost, not sure what happened, working on fixing.

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]
Da Dom
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-12-31 04:01:05 UTC
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
Three of the four known Empires are already led by capsuleers.

I'd say we've conquered them already.


Which three?

CONCORD has the 4 empires under heel for their Jovian puppet masters.

How can we make these empires valuable assest in our galaxy?

Because Far-que... That's why.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#12 - 2012-12-31 06:34:38 UTC
Kirjava wrote:


The Empires are Fragile, they dwell on planets, they live a single life, they learn no lessons from their own death.

We are Immortal, we die, we rise again and with the capacity to reach out to resources beyond our borders...

Well, Capsuleers of wealth such as President Roden of the Gallente Federation is a Capsuleer who walks one path.
Empress Jamyl is another who walks a path as a Capsuleer of ambition to rule.

We are a herd of cats, the only thing we have in common is the knowledge that as time takes its toll on the trillions of humans, we will know of each other. We won as soon as Roden was elected. We won when Jamyl took the throne. We won when we clawed our way out of the cloning chamber for the first time.


If you feel yourself to not be beholden to the Empires, I invite you to stop paying them via CONCORD for your Piloting License. Surely this will not trouble an immortal who sails between the stars.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#13 - 2012-12-31 15:22:10 UTC
Da Dom wrote:
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
Three of the four known Empires are already led by capsuleers.

I'd say we've conquered them already.


Which three?

CONCORD has the 4 empires under heel for their Jovian puppet masters.

How can we make these empires valuable assest in our galaxy?


The heads of state for the Amarrian Empire, the Gallente Federation, and the Minmatar Republic are capsuleers, all of them. Only Tibus Heth is not a capsuleer.
Mitara Newelle
Newelle Family
#14 - 2012-12-31 16:19:12 UTC
Da Dom wrote:

Capsuleer's control the space economy and the vast majority of the military economy. As one, we have the means to cripple the empires economically and sustain a long seige.

Ask yourselves, should our story include conquering the empires?

Another example of capsuleer ego run amok.

Lady Mitara Newelle of House Sarum, Holder of the Mekhios province of Damnidios Para'nashu, Champion of House Sarum, Sworn Upholder of the Faith, Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Admiral of Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Vendrin
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#15 - 2013-01-01 00:19:21 UTC
Why should we shackle ourselves to the monotony of attempting to govern the planet bound? The Stars and what lies beyond this cluster is our destiny, not the specks of dust the people of the Empires inhabit.
Raphael Ordo
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#16 - 2013-01-01 05:49:41 UTC
No mere "superpower" can hope to match or even begin to challenge the eternal power of God.
Hence, let go of the ego that is spreading amongst capsuleers and open your eyes, brethren - God wills it. Therefore, the Empress and the Empire wills it.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#17 - 2013-01-01 14:38:17 UTC
Kirjava wrote:
Well sir, given Acceleration is the result of applied force, and a ship supplies it, even a the force of a gentle summers breeze will accelerate a Neutron star to any velocity given time. The combined engines of an armada of Battleships, engaging Microwarpdrives and bolted, tethered of what ever manner of connection you choose to employ to the asteroid, it will accelerate. At a sustained one standard gravity, this will take less than a year.


You forget that (for reasons unclear) New Eden is exists in fluidic space. Nice try, though.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#18 - 2013-01-01 19:07:54 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Kirjava wrote:
Well sir, given Acceleration is the result of applied force, and a ship supplies it, even a the force of a gentle summers breeze will accelerate a Neutron star to any velocity given time. The combined engines of an armada of Battleships, engaging Microwarpdrives and bolted, tethered of what ever manner of connection you choose to employ to the asteroid, it will accelerate. At a sustained one standard gravity, this will take less than a year.


You forget that (for reasons unclear) New Eden is exists in fluidic space. Nice try, though.

Poppycock, how else do planets orbit stars and not simply fall into their parent stars? I am not as familiar with the specifics, but I thought that it was merely subspace anchoring from active warpdrives that gave rise to this phenomena? Were the proposed plan to occur entirely within realspace (no active warp drives) would this not give the desired exercise in Newtonian mechanics?

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#19 - 2013-01-01 23:54:37 UTC
Kirjava wrote:
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Kirjava wrote:
Well sir, given Acceleration is the result of applied force, and a ship supplies it, even a the force of a gentle summers breeze will accelerate a Neutron star to any velocity given time. The combined engines of an armada of Battleships, engaging Microwarpdrives and bolted, tethered of what ever manner of connection you choose to employ to the asteroid, it will accelerate. At a sustained one standard gravity, this will take less than a year.


You forget that (for reasons unclear) New Eden is exists in fluidic space. Nice try, though.

Poppycock, how else do planets orbit stars and not simply fall into their parent stars? I am not as familiar with the specifics, but I thought that it was merely subspace anchoring from active warpdrives that gave rise to this phenomena? Were the proposed plan to occur entirely within realspace (no active warp drives) would this not give the desired exercise in Newtonian mechanics?


Given your plan seems to hinge on microWARPdrives, I am not sure how you plan to have no warp drives active. Additionally how do you plan to accelerate it beyond the speed of the Battleships. Since even if Fluidic space doesn't impact on the Asteroid, it will impact on the ships, limiting your top speed remotely possible to a very low velocity.

This of course pays no attention to anyone opposing your plans.
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#20 - 2013-01-02 00:13:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirjava
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Kirjava wrote:
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Kirjava wrote:
Well sir, given Acceleration is the result of applied force, and a ship supplies it, even a the force of a gentle summers breeze will accelerate a Neutron star to any velocity given time. The combined engines of an armada of Battleships, engaging Microwarpdrives and bolted, tethered of what ever manner of connection you choose to employ to the asteroid, it will accelerate. At a sustained one standard gravity, this will take less than a year.


You forget that (for reasons unclear) New Eden is exists in fluidic space. Nice try, though.

Poppycock, how else do planets orbit stars and not simply fall into their parent stars? I am not as familiar with the specifics, but I thought that it was merely subspace anchoring from active warpdrives that gave rise to this phenomena? Were the proposed plan to occur entirely within realspace (no active warp drives) would this not give the desired exercise in Newtonian mechanics?


Given your plan seems to hinge on microWARPdrives, I am not sure how you plan to have no warp drives active. Additionally how do you plan to accelerate it beyond the speed of the Battleships. Since even if Fluidic space doesn't impact on the Asteroid, it will impact on the ships, limiting your top speed remotely possible to a very low velocity.

This of course pays no attention to anyone opposing your plans.

My good sir it does not hinge on Microwarpdrives, it would merely expedite the process. I'm sure an afterburner would give an adequate increase in applied force without requiring warp fields.

Also these are not my plans to take out a station, merely an example of the mass devastation of potential Empire crippling scale that a handful of dedicated Capsuleers could be capable of.

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]