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Crime & Punishment

 
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CEO's Corp Dropping to Avoid War Decs
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Theron Dashto
Doomheim
#41 - 2013-01-01 01:12:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Theron Dashto
FeralShadow wrote:
Yes, clearly not everybody is pvp-centric. That is a choice that each of us make when we play this game, and every choice, even those, have consequences. Not being able to defend yourself in a meaningful way is a consequence.


Declare war against those who want to fight you back. You know, your fellow PvP types? You're whining here because paying 50m to grief small corps is eating a hole in your wallet. Plain and simple.

You are CHOOSING to attack non PvP corps. If they fold up shop to avoid you, that is your consequence.
FeralShadow
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2013-01-01 02:03:18 UTC  |  Edited by: FeralShadow
And what about all those corps that are supplying my enemies with resources, ships, and industrial backbone? I can destroy thousands of ships and it won't matter if they keep getting resupplied.

So what, I war dec the indy types, they fold up shop, and continue on to the next corp and simply keep up with what they're doing. You don't think that's a problem?

Why do you think there's so many suicide ganks these days? Not because there's more "griefers", but rather because people fold up shop constantly, and/or simply stay in the noob corps. The only way to actually do any meaningful damage is to either suicide gank, or join the corp and AWOX people, because it's too easy for the targets to avoid the wars, and continue on unhindered. Even if they docked up and didn't do crap for a week, and I didn't do crap for a week, it'd at least have meaning and impact on the game.

I even do consistent business with my own industrial friends, and I don't think they should be able to avoid war decs so easily either. If they were trapped in a war and forced to fight, I would more than happily come and fight on their behalf. People are just too lazy.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
#43 - 2013-01-01 02:46:38 UTC
FeralShadow wrote:
And what about all those corps that are supplying my enemies with resources, ships, and industrial backbone? I can destroy thousands of ships and it won't matter if they keep getting resupplied.


and how exactly do you know which is which? You got supplier too, are you buying from the market? you might as well wardec your own supplyer in your home system!


FeralShadow
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2013-01-01 02:53:07 UTC
Does it really matter? Let's say I have a spy in the enemy corp and am privy to knowledge. The point remains valid regardless.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Dacryphile
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2013-01-01 03:13:36 UTC
If you want to pvp why don't you dec corps that actually want to fight, or get out of high sec?
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#46 - 2013-01-01 03:55:10 UTC
Dacryphile wrote:
If you want to pvp why don't you dec corps that actually want to fight, or get out of high sec?


Ah, we've boiled down to the "High sec should be safe for industrialists who don't want to PVP" arguement. That took longer than expected.

EDIT: How are the benefits in Brutor Tribe working for you?

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
FeralShadow
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2013-01-01 04:12:15 UTC
Dacryphile wrote:
If you want to pvp why don't you dec corps that actually want to fight, or get out of high sec?



That doesn't matter, whatsoever. Industrial corps supplying ships/modules are having a direct impact on my war against those "People who actually want to fight". You expect me to continue an uphill struggle against them without destroying their supply lines?

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Theron Dashto
Doomheim
#48 - 2013-01-01 04:28:00 UTC
It just burns your ass that some people are better at avoiding you than you are at hunting them down, doesn't it?

Some people just don't want to PvP. You're trying to force players to play your game, and now you're complaining because they won't. It's kind of silly.
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2013-01-01 04:51:22 UTC
Alright, then. Industrialists don't have to be touched by PvP. All we ask in return is that PvPers don't have to pay for their ships, modules, or other supplies. Sound fair?

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
#50 - 2013-01-01 05:38:53 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
Alright, then. Industrialists don't have to be touched by PvP. All we ask in return is that PvPers don't have to pay for their ships, modules, or other supplies. Sound fair?


they are touched everyday by PVP with ganking.

if you want to destroy the supply line, gank them.

Theron Dashto
Doomheim
#51 - 2013-01-01 05:47:08 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
Alright, then. Industrialists don't have to be touched by PvP. All we ask in return is that PvPers don't have to pay for their ships, modules, or other supplies. Sound fair?


Sounds fair to me. No ships, modules, or other supplies for you then...unless you acquire them from a PvP corp that produces goods. No more hi-sec trade hubs for you, either. You can get all your stuff in null space and pay through the nose for it.

It works both ways.

These corps are going about their business, doing what they want to do to make money. They're not bothering anyone. They make no attempt to interfere with your gameplay in any way whatsoever. Nothing they do in their entire process involves attacking another player. This may be hard for some of you to comprehend, but some people enjoy other challenges offered by the game that do not include PvP.

No one is safe in Eve. We all get it. At the same time, there are a lot of PvP-oriented players who seem to get their jollies off preying on players in hisec. It's not your civic duty to perform the occasional gank just to "keep these carebears in line" or whatever other justification you can come up with. It's just completely unnecessary. If PvP is your thing, there are PLENTY of corps out there doing the exact same things: they're researching blueprints, making ships and goods, and running indy ships full of valuable loot. There's players building POS's in w-space. Why not seek those guys out?

At the end of the day, it all comes back to the same reason: they're not good enough, that's why. If these players really wanted a challenge, they'd seek one out. Why attempt to go after someone who is equally (or better) geared and willing to fight, when they can just gank players who don't?
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#52 - 2013-01-01 05:53:50 UTC
FeralShadow wrote:
Yes, clearly not everybody is pvp-centric. That is a choice that each of us make when we play this game, and every choice, even those, have consequences. Not being able to defend yourself in a meaningful way is a consequence. I'm simply saying that a 50mil isk war dec fee and 50mil isk corp formation fee balances it out for both sides. You want to remake? Fine. Go ahead. Each of you can make the other poor through 50mil isk fees, or figure out a way to fix it without running to the mechanics for the answer.

You know, in this game that involves other players, you can't always play your way. I can't always play mine, either.


Your paying extra money to essentially get to kill the life out of any corporation you choose, whenever you choose to do so. That's why it's not more expensive, and it won't be.

You sure are posting a whole lot about potentially 48m ISK, if you spent half the time posting belt ratting, mission running, or FW Plexing I doubt that this would be an issue. You dec'd someone and you didn't get to kill anything? Abloo bloo bloo.

Get over it.
FeralShadow
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2013-01-01 22:13:18 UTC
First, I am quite space rich, so the extra isk really doesn't bug me too much. What does bug me is that the people or person can jump corp and evade the war in its entirety for a paltry 2 mil isk, negating any and all work that has been done to track the targets, figure out what targets are actually the ones I want, and any other work.. Perhaps if corps were actually more meaningful to people, they wouldn't want to jump them so easily, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Second, every single thing that people do in this game has an impact on other people, whether directly or indirectly. By creating ships and goods and selling it to my enemies the industrialists are indirectly affecting my war effort, in a negative way. And I should have the ability to rectify the situation, should I not? By jumping corp and reforming, I am unable to rectify the situation.

If every single industrial corporation created items for their own personal use and never sold them to anybody, then yeah.. you're not affecting anybody.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
#54 - 2013-01-02 04:04:04 UTC
FeralShadow wrote:
First, I am quite space rich, so the extra isk really doesn't bug me too much. What does bug me is that the people or person can jump corp and evade the war in its entirety for a paltry 2 mil isk, negating any and all work that has been done to track the targets, figure out what targets are actually the ones I want, and any other work.. Perhaps if corps were actually more meaningful to people, they wouldn't want to jump them so easily, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Second, every single thing that people do in this game has an impact on other people, whether directly or indirectly. By creating ships and goods and selling it to my enemies the industrialists are indirectly affecting my war effort, in a negative way. And I should have the ability to rectify the situation, should I not? By jumping corp and reforming, I am unable to rectify the situation.

If every single industrial corporation created items for their own personal use and never sold them to anybody, then yeah.. you're not affecting anybody.


Thx for the laugh!

I'm sure every griefer who wardec a corp is taking to time to "track" their target.

"hey corpmate, look, that corp looks pretty active with all those hulk! let's wardec them! huhuhu!"

on the other hand, if you, doing pvp, are space rich, imagine the industrialist. even if you put the corp creation at 250m, they will change.

there are some people that can't jump corp. if you don't know about them, i'm pretty sure you aren't really tracking anyone.
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#55 - 2013-01-02 07:06:58 UTC
Red Frog Rufen wrote:
I'm sure every griefer who wardec a corp is taking to time to "track" their target.


Research is an important aspect of being successful at killing people in high sec, even if the targets are not prepared to defend themselves.

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
Thomas Gore
Blackfyre Enterprise
#56 - 2013-01-02 08:24:55 UTC
Posting in a true "HTFU" thread created by those who want to gank helpless highsec noobs. If they only could see the irony themselves...
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#57 - 2013-01-02 08:35:52 UTC
Thomas Gore wrote:
Posting in a true "HTFU" thread created by those who want to gank helpless highsec noobs. If they only could see the irony themselves...


Hmm. I don't believe the ganking of "helpless highsec noobs" was ever the topic of this thread. Do you read, or just badpoast?

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
Media Jessup
Nuka-Cola
#58 - 2013-01-02 11:06:17 UTC
Khador Vess wrote:


In any case, plenty of 'civilised countries' where i do business on a weekly / monthly basis operate on the principal that if i want to do business with someone... rather large brown envelopes are the done thing... (hey dont judge...) if i dont like what a competitor is doing i can wreck any chance them being able to do business in that teritory with some well placed envelopes... if i want them gone, there are plenty of territories where..... well lets not go into that particular rabbit hole.

Restricting War Decs, removing them or making them more expensive will not fix the issue. There are legitimate reasons for creating corps and / or dropping out of them them quickly / in quick succession (for example premade corps and standings services) but IMHO you should not restrict peoples ability to corp hop like this... its a game mechanic just like the War Decs... as i said before the more annoying a target becomes the sweeter it will be when you catch them in the end...


LoL at large brown envelopes... Btw people who give into corruption like that are what keep those "civilized countries" in quotations.

But I do agree with the second point. If a person is willing to forsake his pride and have a sloppy employment history he should have his own game mechanical for avoiding your griefing/cyber bullying/whatever.
You're no daisy... You're no daisy at all!
Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
#59 - 2013-01-02 14:52:28 UTC
Tah'ris Khlador wrote:
Red Frog Rufen wrote:
I'm sure every griefer who wardec a corp is taking to time to "track" their target.


Research is an important aspect of being successful at killing people in high sec, even if the targets are not prepared to defend themselves.


a simple check on my corp description would allow anyone to see that there are nothing usefull deccing Red Frog Freight, even before we adopted the permanant war model.

we still got plenty of wardec nonetheless.

Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#60 - 2013-01-02 19:47:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Tah'ris Khlador
Red Frog Rufen wrote:
a simple check on my corp description would allow anyone to see that there are nothing usefull deccing Red Frog Freight


Your example of limited research tells nothing. People write fake Corp descriptions all the time, either to lure people in or to desperately ward them off.

Killboard statistics will tend to also show the general space that the group likes to reside. If most of their kills/losses are in WH but their corp description says "Highsec Missions 4 Lyfe!" then they are probably not a valid target unless you have their actual WH and are able to fight in that environment.

Similarly, a corp may put "Null sec mining operations!" but have majority of their membership operating in a fringe 0.5 system.

Or the corp description may be something like "Mission, Mining, and Industry corporation! All Welcome!" and has a high chance of being a scammer corp.

Similarly, if a corp has an extremely high tax rate, 50% or a 100% is typical, then the corp is probably all alts for one person or under a CTA. Again, the KB statistics and number of corp members will lend themselves to what it is.

There are other avenues of research but my point is that the corp description is not enough if you are to be effective.

EDIT: As to your comment that you get plenty of Wardecs none-the-less, that is because there are people who are stupid and don't do research and want to catch a shiny freighter.

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance