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New NPC AI, what has it really done?

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Ginger Barbarella
#21 - 2012-12-31 18:25:38 UTC
Sweet Jesus, here we go again.

Hey, CCP, any way I can block entire threads based on a list of keywords or users?? Please? Huh, please?!?!?!

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#22 - 2012-12-31 18:29:46 UTC
Flardowell wrote:
So aside from the fact that its made killing things with drone nearly impossible, along with turrets and soon to be missiles when they can be affected by tracking disruptors, what was the biggest hit that the new AI changes have hurt?

New players

How you might ask?

Lets say someone is very new to the game, maybe has a cruiser with one or two lasers and is somewhat interested in this game (god knows why). Well, you're a l4 mission runner, or lets say you're a null-sec denizen and you managed to get them to join you. In the past, what would you have done? "Hey my newbro friend, why don't you come join me in this mission/sanctum. You can see what this will be like when you get bigger, milk a bit off of my bounties, salvage a few wrecks, and have a good time with me while we chill."


Your point: I do not grant it.

In most MMOs, this type of thing was called twinking or powerleveling - where more experienced or better-equipped players made life easier for the newbies.

Keeping that kind of gameplay is not essential, and tends to diminish the value of the content that is geared towards the newbies - like level 1 and 2 missions.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Kalanaja
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-12-31 19:37:34 UTC
I have no problems using drones in missions or elsewhere. Yes, the rats are smarter now. That's a good thing. It means they stop getting stuck on rocks, station chunks, gates and other things. Then twisting back and forth like they're having seizures. Still some work to be done to get that dynamic feeling going though.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#24 - 2012-12-31 20:04:33 UTC
Kalanaja wrote:
I have no problems using drones in missions or elsewhere. Yes, the rats are smarter now. That's a good thing. It means they stop getting stuck on rocks, station chunks, gates and other things. Then twisting back and forth like they're having seizures. Still some work to be done to get that dynamic feeling going though.

At least you can shoot through the rocks to kill them.

Annoying when they're really far away, though.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-12-31 21:02:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Kalanaja wrote:
I have no problems using drones in missions or elsewhere. Yes, the rats are smarter now. That's a good thing. It means they stop getting stuck on rocks, station chunks, gates and other things. Then twisting back and forth like they're having seizures. Still some work to be done to get that dynamic feeling going though.

Are they actually doing that now? I'm still seeing NPC's get stuck on mission structures.

I've really not noticed in gunboats the difference outside of one mission, even then it just meant letting frigs I couldn't hit with rails get close enough for drone recalls to be near instantaneous.
Kiandoshia
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-12-31 21:26:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiandoshia
Nothing is more interesting if you were not flying drone ships xD

I just swapped out all medium drones with light drones and continued as before. I really have no problems with NPCs killing my drones anymore. I lose maybe one or two in a few hours of running missions, which I guess is an improvement over the one or two a year.

Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Kalanaja wrote:
I have no problems using drones in missions or elsewhere. Yes, the rats are smarter now. That's a good thing. It means they stop getting stuck on rocks, station chunks, gates and other things. Then twisting back and forth like they're having seizures. Still some work to be done to get that dynamic feeling going though.

Are they actually doing that now? I'm still seeing NPC's get stuck on mission structures.

I've really not noticed in gunboats the difference outside of one mission, even then it just meant letting frigs I couldn't hit with rails get close enough for drone recalls to be near instantaneous.


None of that is correct. NPCs are still stupid, still predictable and still boring to fight against. They still get stuck, they still spazz around.. the ONLY difference is, their small ships like to shoot at drones once in a while and their big stuff likes shooting cruisers and such (logis for example) once in a while.

The only way to make that bit challenging is by increase their damage output. At the moment all they are doing is splitting their damage, which makes them easier to deal with if anything.
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#27 - 2013-01-01 00:01:45 UTC
Use sentries in your drone boats on level 4s. Plus add a Large Micro Jump Drive. Kill the rats at range. New NPC AI rendered ineffective.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#28 - 2013-01-01 00:08:52 UTC
From a nullsec players perspective the worst thing about the changes is Ewar like scrams/webs regardless of what ship they are used on greatly increase the chance of rat aggro switching to the PVP player. This is a general nerf to the small gang/roaming gang/solo pilots ability to kill in nullsec.
Tesal
#29 - 2013-01-01 03:48:38 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
From a nullsec players perspective the worst thing about the changes is Ewar like scrams/webs regardless of what ship they are used on greatly increase the chance of rat aggro switching to the PVP player. This is a general nerf to the small gang/roaming gang/solo pilots ability to kill in nullsec.


You have the first post in 2013 in GD, congratulations.
Alayna Le'line
#30 - 2013-01-01 04:09:08 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Flardowell wrote:
So aside from the fact that its made killing things with drone nearly impossible, along with turrets and soon to be missiles when they can be affected by tracking disruptors, what was the biggest hit that the new AI changes have hurt?

New players

How you might ask?

Lets say someone is very new to the game, maybe has a cruiser with one or two lasers and is somewhat interested in this game (god knows why). Well, you're a l4 mission runner, or lets say you're a null-sec denizen and you managed to get them to join you. In the past, what would you have done? "Hey my newbro friend, why don't you come join me in this mission/sanctum. You can see what this will be like when you get bigger, milk a bit off of my bounties, salvage a few wrecks, and have a good time with me while we chill."


Your point: I do not grant it.

In most MMOs, this type of thing was called twinking or powerleveling - where more experienced or better-equipped players made life easier for the newbies.

Keeping that kind of gameplay is not essential, and tends to diminish the value of the content that is geared towards the newbies - like level 1 and 2 missions.



Except that rewards-wise L1 and L2 missions have a truly pitiful payout, even for a new player. Honestly, missions aren't worth it before L3s (and one could argue about those).
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#31 - 2013-01-01 04:09:48 UTC
Do the encounters that you have to scan down if you like the old AI. In case people missed it you can now scan down encounters the same as WH's and anoms. The AI in the encounters are as dumb as rocks and they don't go after drones.

As for the missions, slight adaptation and I still solo L4's. And remember, the longer you play the easier things get as your tank and DPS can constantly go up with training.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#32 - 2013-01-01 06:20:41 UTC
Flardowell wrote:
So aside from the fact that its made killing things with drone nearly impossible, along with turrets and soon to be missiles when they can be affected by tracking disruptors, what was the biggest hit that the new AI changes have hurt?

New players

How you might ask?

Lets say someone is very new to the game, maybe has a cruiser with one or two lasers and is somewhat interested in this game (god knows why). Well, you're a l4 mission runner, or lets say you're a null-sec denizen and you managed to get them to join you. In the past, what would you have done? "Hey my newbro friend, why don't you come join me in this mission/sanctum. You can see what this will be like when you get bigger, milk a bit off of my bounties, salvage a few wrecks, and have a good time with me while we chill."

Now?

Sure, have him warp to a mission or complex to die in a matter of seconds. Now these new players are resorted to doing silly little l1-l2 missions, or waiting patiently in a noctis to hoover up a site. You're really telling me thats the best way to get hooked on this game?

And I don't want to hear anything about "They need to put in the time to get sp to do those missions." If it wasn't for the older players of this game showing how this game can actually be somewhat fun, or bringing on a newbro friend just to see them oooo and aaaahhh over things you've grinded 5000 different times, what would be the point?

I'm sorry, but with all the nerfing CCP has done in the past, from sec status to everything else to make isk harder and harder to obtain, how do they think this is going to affect new players who want to explore this universe? Lets make drone boats useless, TD's right now are killing turrets and soon they'll kill missiles. Go try to gank someone in a mission/sanctum and use ewar, and just watch what happens as your ship pops. But inadvertently messing with the newer players? Yea...


It nerfed AFK RS mission runners. It nerfed new players in no way shape or form.

What sucked was when they broke the AI and had to patch it, but that's been fixed for a couple weeks.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Roderick Grey
Koenigsbergers
#33 - 2013-01-01 07:25:35 UTC
Having to run from a ratting drake because all three battleships switched to me and jammed me is the most painful thing I have experienced in Eve.

What's the logic on that?

1. Why would the rats switch to the target that ISN'T attacking them at all.

2. Why are battleships switching to a cruiser over a battle-cruiser?

It's stupid and CCP needs to change it before more people realize how stupid they can be.

“We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.” - Special needs division of Fcon.
Kogh Ayon
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2013-01-01 08:40:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Kogh Ayon
New players will not die simply because they will think it is the ordinary feature of the game and will adapt to it.
People who actually dying in the mission are botting CNRs and obsolete years old high-sec bears in the railgun machariel.

Really pleased to see lots mission botters bankrupted after this expansion, gf ccp, want a dev blog for this Big smile
Starry Enigma
State War Academy
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-01-01 08:59:41 UTC
Kogh Ayon wrote:
New players will not die simply because they will think it is the ordinary feature of the game and will adapt to it.
People who actually dying in the mission are botting CNRs and obsolete years old high-sec bears in the railgun machariel.

Really pleased to see lots mission botters bankrupted after this expansion, gf ccp, want a dev blog for this Big smile

Railgun machariel... ?!?!?!
SegaPhoenix
Chicks on Speed
Weapons Of Mass Production.
#36 - 2013-01-01 14:21:51 UTC
Unfortunatley I believe this change (as with as most) was geared to reign in the min/maxers of the PVE content. As such some players will inevitably get shafted. I think CCP is looking at the big picture and trying to slow down the uber fountains of ISK all around EVE. Happy new year.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2013-01-01 15:24:46 UTC

Last I checked, level 1 missions for new players are still completely droneable. Helped a mate of mine I was introducing to the game using an Algos myself, did World's Collide, drones didn't even take agro. Drone boats work just fine. If you're struggling, then it's because you're doing it wrong, especially since the AI has been FIXED post-Ret.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
CausticS0da
Shrubbery Acquisitions
Blohm and Voss Shipyards Alliance
#38 - 2013-01-01 15:25:49 UTC
Roderick Grey wrote:
Having to run from a ratting drake because all three battleships switched to me and jammed me is the most painful thing I have experienced in Eve.

What's the logic on that?

1. Why would the rats switch to the target that ISN'T attacking them at all.

2. Why are battleships switching to a cruiser over a battle-cruiser?

It's stupid and CCP needs to change it before more people realize how stupid they can be.



Yeah, the real problem is that it kills a big part of solo pop in nul. This is massive. Killing sanctum runners solo becomes impossible when the rats turn on you. The change kills solo pvp and makes no sense-you'd think the rats would be thanking you...
Irya Boone
The Scope
#39 - 2013-01-01 15:49:09 UTC
done nothing !!! it would be easier and more effective to just remove the agressive mode for drones that it

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
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