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So I've just had my first gank from gate campers
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Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#81 - 2012-12-31 14:09:44 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
It's utter bullcrap for a space game to have that primitive traveling solution of developers-seeded pre-made deathtraps network instead of player-based exploration system. Not going to visit low/null until gate camps mechanic will be removed from the game - I'm not interesting in gameplay with 100% chance to lose ship.


That is just silly. Because there is *a chance you *may run into *a gate camp, you're denying yourself of a part of the game you pay to play for.

I could understand if you said that about 0.0 because that can be a real pain with them bubbles. But low sec hasn't got them and as said before you can prepare yourself, check out the route etc.
I still at times find myself (on my trade alt) on the wrong side of the gate, too busy buying up cheap stuff, forgetting to turn on/off the filter and so far my trade alt never ran into a gate camp.

Another reason why you're being silly is that the moment you undock in high sec you still have *a chance that *someone will gank you. Doesn't matter where you are, people can shoot you still in the face. Does that make you stop playing the game entirely?
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2012-12-31 14:11:20 UTC
Dorian Wylde wrote:
Buried on page 3, but:

We're basically in a catch-22 here. If CCP does something to curb random, stupid ganking, it will **** off the older players, fundamentally change the game, and the vets will leave.

If they keep things the way they are, most new players will quit after short trials, because it's too cut-throat, and the game doesn't grow.

I have no idea what the solution it, but somethings going to give eventually.


This isn't a catch-22, its easily solvable. CCP needs to give more incentives to be in player corps so more people will be in them. With more people increases the likelihood that there will be someone knowledgeable in the corporation that can teach the newbies how its done. It'd also help if there were a way for those proven newbie teaching corps to advertise better or get some kind of bonus.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#83 - 2012-12-31 14:14:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
La Nariz wrote:
Dorian Wylde wrote:
Buried on page 3, but:

We're basically in a catch-22 here. If CCP does something to curb random, stupid ganking, it will **** off the older players, fundamentally change the game, and the vets will leave.

If they keep things the way they are, most new players will quit after short trials, because it's too cut-throat, and the game doesn't grow.

I have no idea what the solution it, but somethings going to give eventually.


This isn't a catch-22, its easily solvable. CCP needs to give more incentives to be in player corps so more people will be in them. With more people increases the likelihood that there will be someone knowledgeable in the corporation that can teach the newbies how its done. It'd also help if there were a way for those proven newbie teaching corps to advertise better or get some kind of bonus.


This^^. Someone opened up an advertising feature idea in the Assembly Hall at some point, that would be perfect with this. If there were some kind of in-game mechanic orientated advertising, new players wouldn't have to be browsing the forums, or actively looking for a corp to some way see that there are better alternatives to an NPC corp.

Edit: There is is: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96911

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2012-12-31 14:23:30 UTC
Arduemont wrote:


This^^. Someone opened up an advertising feature idea in the Assembly Hall at some point, that would be perfect with this. If there were some kind of in-game mechanic orientated advertising, new players wouldn't have to be browsing the forums, or actively looking for a corp to some way see that there are better alternatives to an NPC corp.


Agreed, the forums do not reach enough people let alone newbies. Perhaps proven newbie teaching/aiding corps should be allowed to advertise in npc corp chat.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#85 - 2012-12-31 14:24:18 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Just pointing out that last year WoW lost well over a million subs and EVE is the only MMO to still be growing after 10 years.




1 million from 14 it's not really important after 10 years. CCP doesn't need to loose as much to loose 20% of their staff.

Blizzard is blizzard, CCP is CCP, both are great and provide entertainment for millions of bitter arrogant nerds.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#86 - 2012-12-31 14:26:02 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
It's utter bullcrap for a space game to have that primitive traveling solution of developers-seeded pre-made deathtraps network instead of player-based exploration system. Not going to visit low/null until gate camps mechanic will be removed from the game - I'm not interesting in gameplay with 100% chance to lose ship.


you can go through wormholes
if u are in a corp you can have a crowd cloud source (whatever the stupid word is) a scanning system to find wh's to low and null
go through them, do whatever pve u want in low, come back again
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#87 - 2012-12-31 14:37:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
La Nariz wrote:
This isn't a catch-22, its easily solvable. CCP needs to give more incentives to be in player corps so more people will be in them. With more people increases the likelihood that there will be someone knowledgeable in the corporation that can teach the newbies how its done. It'd also help if there were a way for those proven newbie teaching corps to advertise better or get some kind of bonus.


just like the old amway MLM schemes
the diamonds and the emeralds get paid, while the downstream does the marketing for them
lol
maybe ccp will be a real company one day and write an instruction manual
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#88 - 2012-12-31 14:38:09 UTC
- Fit a t1 cloak and a MWD and do the cloak / mwd trick - youjust bet the gatecampers
- fly a frigate, you just defeated the gatecampers (most of the time)
- bring a friend in a scout
- check the map before you jump in for kills in system and players in space

lots of options to get past gatecamps, stop whining.

people in lowsec play to PVP for the most part, which means if you are not blue to them, you are a target. doesn't matter who you are, or what you are flying.

also, you seem certain thee guys had been gate camping forever waiting for you.. may not be the case. when i take out roams we will often pause and setup camp on a gate for 5 minutes while we sort out a new destination, or just to see if stuff comes through and kill it before moving on..
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#89 - 2012-12-31 14:38:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96911

^^ This is a pretty good solution. It appears to be closed because they promised something like this in the CSM minutes before they were release. I still have their minutes, and nothing even vaguely like this was mentioned.

Better corp advertising means people can get in like-minded groups with people who actually know what they're doing and can help to teach newer players how to keep safe. Ie, to avoid gatecamps.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Mascha Tzash
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#90 - 2012-12-31 14:59:21 UTC
I made some similar experience as the OP with this char. With my main, my corp joined a low-sec Alliance. The thing I learned from this is, that you have to make friends in the "not-highsec" area or you are just considered a cyno alt or hunted for the lulz of it.

Low sec isn't the wild west of new eden. Just other rules apply to it than to highsec. You can get shot at by virtually anyone but if you got friends, gang up and turn yourself from beeing the prey to the preyer. For me it was a very thrilling, exciting and new experience to learn something new about life in new eden and make some new friends I like to chat on voice coms.

Loosing ships is a thing you will soon do on a daily basis. There are lots of corps out there that embrace new players and live in low-sec. If you are lucky you find the right bunch of people who will teach you the ropes and ties of eve online, that a pure high-sec located corp won't be able to show you. It's more thrilling than everything I encountered so far in eve. Even living in a WH was not that cool to live in, than low-sec.

It is by far not the part of the map that says "there be dragons!".
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2012-12-31 15:09:16 UTC
I live in 0.0 and agree that gate campers are gay as ****
Mister S Burke
Doomheim
#92 - 2012-12-31 15:31:42 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
[quote=baltec1]

Blizzard is blizzard, CCP is CCP, both are great and provide entertainment for millions of bitter arrogant nerds.


Finally someone said it. Eve players have to talk about how much smarter they are every thirty seconds for some reason. Read thru this post though, the only thing different I can see is that you get insulted and called stupid with some better punctuation.
Jantunen the Infernal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2012-12-31 15:49:45 UTC
Forbes wrote:
But there’s one game that’s perplexing analysts as it not only is surviving using a paid subscription model, but thriving. That would be CCP Games‘ EVE Online, the space combat simulator which recently announced that it’s broken 450,000 subscriptions for the first time in the games ten year history.

Eve is dying all right. Roll

Also HTFU.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#94 - 2012-12-31 16:22:10 UTC
People have said it before, but as someone who has lived in low-sec for going on a year now, I can tell you that there are several things which completely frustrate most gate camps I have been involved in.

Most "gate camps" are not actually. They are wandering, roaming fleets that happen to be on a gate while someone looks for targets in the next system. They are not set up to catch frigates on gates (since this necessitates essentially having a ship specifically designed for catching and killing frigates, which makes them not very useful in the actual fights), which means assuming you have even a modicum of piloting skill that you will get away in a frigate most of the time. Frigates can catch frigates, but they cant survive on the gate. Sensor boosted cruisers can catch frigates but a lot of the time can't keep them held down.

This means use a frigate as a scout before bringing your big, slow, easy to lock, easy to bump ship through. You can even do this solo although thats not recommended.

2) If you are in something big and slow, dont try to warp away. Don't panic. Hold your cloak for a random amount of time while you collect yourself. Turn back to the gate and turn on your prop mod, and all your tank. Chances are everyone will aggres you. They will try to web you down and bump you, and if they do, well... should have scouted, but you took your chances. If they dont have enough web and don't alpha you down, jump through the gate, and find a safe spot to hang around in. Chances are they won't chase after you since they will assume you just completely got away. Most small gangs don't bring probes since that is someone who could be in a more immediately useful ship, so you are probably okay. Hop around anyways.
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#95 - 2012-12-31 16:24:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jame Jarl Retief
Janus Darkjudge wrote:
And if the mechanics allow them to scare off new players, then 40k peak numbers is all there is going to be.


That's pretty much true. Unless something changes in a significant way, the game will continue to stagnate.

One of the things CCP could do is remove the jumpgates and allow ships to jump by themselves from system to system. Bam. Suddenly, no gate camps, because there are no gates, a ship can jump in anyplace in the system. Buuuut then all the bored gatecampers will ragequit. They won't HTFU, oh no, that's a one-way street. They will all ragequit or shoot a statue in Jita. After all, why bother flying around scanning and hunting if you can just camp the gate and have people come to you? And it's not like CCP can afford to lose these subs. So nothing ever changes, and the game just keeps on stagnating.

And this is just one example where one group's gameplay (gate campers) supercedes another group's gameplay (everyone else). Yes, there's ways of dealing with camps, but it requires friends, or alt account, or extra time, or all of the above. Something a lot of people aren't willing to do, or don't have time for. So they end up paying for it often enough by getting popped. And many/most see it as fair. And in a way, it is fair. However, this also leads to cancellations. And that leads to a relatively small population, and significantly less income for CCP, which translates into less new things for us, which leads to even more cancellations from people who just get bored to death of the same old stuff. And the cycle continues.

People laugh at "EVE is dying". And they have a right to, because it's been here a good long while. However, I would say the game is most definitely stagnating. We haven't had any record shatters in a good long while. The concurrent user record set a year or more ago is still there. We're still at roughly 450k subs, most of those are alt accounts. If there's any growth, it's likely due to alt propagation, so it's not real growth. And this is after three expansions in a row focusing exclusively on FiS. Perhaps it's time to start branching out into WiS and actually get the Incarna content to a usable state.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#96 - 2012-12-31 16:48:19 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Janus Darkjudge wrote:
And if the mechanics allow them to scare off new players, then 40k peak numbers is all there is going to be.


That's pretty much true. Unless something changes in a significant way, the game will continue to stagnate.

One of the things CCP could do is remove the jumpgates and allow ships to jump by themselves from system to system. Bam. Suddenly, no gate camps, because there are no gates, a ship can jump in anyplace in the system. Buuuut then all the bored gatecampers will ragequit. They won't HTFU, oh no, that's a one-way street. They will all ragequit or shoot a statue in Jita. After all, why bother flying around scanning and hunting if you can just camp the gate and have people come to you? And it's not like CCP can afford to lose these subs. So nothing ever changes, and the game just keeps on stagnating.

And this is just one example where one group's gameplay (gate campers) supercedes another group's gameplay (everyone else). Yes, there's ways of dealing with camps, but it requires friends, or alt account, or extra time, or all of the above. Something a lot of people aren't willing to do, or don't have time for. So they end up paying for it often enough by getting popped. And many/most see it as fair. And in a way, it is fair. However, this also leads to cancellations. And that leads to a relatively small population, and significantly less income for CCP, which translates into less new things for us, which leads to even more cancellations from people who just get bored to death of the same old stuff. And the cycle continues.

People laugh at "EVE is dying". And they have a right to, because it's been here a good long while. However, I would say the game is most definitely stagnating. We haven't had any record shatters in a good long while. The concurrent user record set a year or more ago is still there. We're still at roughly 450k subs, most of those are alt accounts. If there's any growth, it's likely due to alt propagation, so it's not real growth. And this is after three expansions in a row focusing exclusively on FiS. Perhaps it's time to start branching out into WiS and actually get the Incarna content to a usable state.
Heaven forbid you should rely on friends or corp mates in an MMO. That would be way too much to ask. So instead let's change the whole nature of the game, remove it's sole and kill it?
A sandbox means you can do anything you want within the rules, but so can everyone else. Just because you dislike one mechanic, doesn't mean it's a bad one. Plus you'll find CCP gives you the tools to deal with those mechanics. If you don't want to use those tools, then that's your problem not ours.

Numbers were hitting 60k, you know what killed it? The biggest carebear expansion ever dropped onto the Eve server, Incarna. Or as many called it, incarnage. It's now starting to recuperate and the last thing this game needs for that, is yet more bad carebear ideas.

This game is PvP centric. Almost every aspect of the game is based on PvP, even ship spinning. Time you dealt with that fact.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Lexmana
#97 - 2012-12-31 16:49:28 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Janus Darkjudge wrote:
And if the mechanics allow them to scare off new players, then 40k peak numbers is all there is going to be.


That's pretty much true. Unless something changes in a significant way, the game will continue to stagnate.

You call constant growth over a decade for stagnate? Did you read the news that EVE broke 450k subscribers for the first time ever and it was this month.
Tortise Winkle VonDudenberg
Doomheim
#98 - 2012-12-31 16:55:28 UTC
Janus Darkjudge wrote:
I know I'm the millions noob to make this complaint. But not fussed.

I see barely 40,000 players online on weekends and half that number during the week.

One of the oldest, and I would have to say more interesting, MMOs seems to be stuck with low numbers whilst new comers like WOT etc grow substantially, the old rivals like WOW and LOTRO go from strength to strenth.


They keep gettin stronger? These games fizzle out after just a year, Some even sooner. You dont seem very informed on what you are saying. Please refrain from comparing any game to eve. They are just games. Eve is real. Real consequences. Real player market. Real player driven content. Neither of the games you mentioned have even 1/10th that. You shoot stuff die respawn, or in LOTRO you die and respawn with all your stuff AKA no consequence. This isnt that type of "game".

Janus Darkjudge wrote:
I've been playing a month and I couldn't put my finger on why.

Now I know.


1 month? Man have you got some learning to do. I hope you stick around and update this post after 1 year. To see how much you have changed since then. I can imagine it will be very different, but i doubt you will last that long.

Janus Darkjudge wrote:
Look, I took the bare minimum equipment with me and I was flying in a Vexor that I could afford to lose so I'm not bitter about the loss.

But on my very first time exploring outside high sec, the fact 3 idiots are spending their time at midnight on a Sunday next to a jump gate in a 0.3 sec system in the middle of nowhere and have nothing better to do than take out a crappy vexor in 3 shots then podkill the owner means there are clearly a lot of tossers playing this game.


Insert Bitter. You said you weren't, But it found its way in that last paragraph. You did good by taking something you could afford to lose. But in the same instance you did bad by going alone. You said you read all the posts. You could not have. If you did you wouldn't have went alone. If you fit a Micro Warp Drive you could have burned back to the gate and jumped out.
Did you stop to think that maybe it wasn't 12 am to them? There is this crazy thing called timezones, Get to know them, and know them even better in eve.

Janus Darkjudge wrote:
I'll keep playing for a while but all those whining that hi-sec should be nerfed should know why no-one goes null sec. I suspect most of us are more than happy to leave to tossers to their onanism and we'll fly space ships for fun instead.


Please do keep playing. In time you will find that your thinking on this matter is very flawed. Read more posts, Talk to informed experienced players. Get some friends! This is an MMO the part you have to learn can be made much easier with a lil bit of effort on your part.
Karrl Tian
Doomheim
#99 - 2012-12-31 16:57:08 UTC
UI and having to PvE to PvP turns more people away then getting ganked in my opinion, although I will admit I know at least one person IRL who quit because he took his first BS into a lowsec belt to "see what it was like" (and he did).

Still, gatecamps are hardly everywhere (especially in lowsec) nor are they unavoidable. Just a matter of getting over the learning hump which you'll never do by sitting on your ass in highsec grumping that low/null is "too dangerous."
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#100 - 2012-12-31 17:47:16 UTC
Ugh. We have a bunch of pirates in Cynabals in our favourite system that believe ganking scrubs on a gate, the same gate, all day, all night, is the epitome of leet peeveepee. I just don't know with whom to agree anymore, this is all very confusing at the moment. I'd like to believe lowsec is there to pew pew and have fun, but I'm also a bit dissapointed that the first few experiences in lowsec pvp go a bit like this:

1. You are being locked.
2. You are now in an egg.
3. Go pay for a new ship.

Not very appealing to people new to the game. Nowadays I can throw away frigs and destroyers by the dozen, just to do crazy stuff, or merely to use them the same way Mario uses a mushroom to bypass said pirates the lazy way even if it cuts into the profits a bit. I couldn't do this in my first few weeks off course, and I can see people getting bored of missioning and mining in hisec rather quickly, quicker then a typical player might develop the habits needed to survive / thrive in lowsec, or blow up people themselves.

That being said there are methods to survive and even thrive (make ISK) in lowsec, and I find them quite enjoyable. I do see how certain players would be put off by the seeming ease others destroy you, or the unfairness percieved by random podding at a gate. But it's very rewarding to master the mechanics to survive there and the only way to learn anything usefull is to get blown up. It's harsh, it's trial-and-error, it's like a NES game on steroids with 40K people in it wanting you dead. Hey, I think that's fun.

You just might bounce back OP. If you stick with it however, you will start crying about how your triple-warpstabbed overshielded T1 hauler is overinsured because it survived it's third gatecamp and that hisec needs to be nerfed. You are this close.Lol