EVE General Discussion

Or for that matter try to do things where there is no NPC structures.

And people might be willing to risk part of those hundreds of billions of isk if there is a reason too.

Indeed, and currently there isn't wich is something i've been complaining about fairly often since i started in 2003 and have done it all, though i suppose i went to null from late 2003 to 2006 to primarily make isk and not so much shoot people unless they kept me from making isk....


The biggest single things that ruined it in null space comes down to 3 things:


1: The release of lvl 4 missions in high sec, wich many seasoned pilots from those days moved back to empire to do those since it's possible to make 25 million an hour, even if it's boring and pretty repetitive once you know all the missions.

2: The availability of incursions in high sec empire wich pay even more than lvl 4 missions do, even if they are harder and require a team to do them where there's at least 2 logistics ships for armor and/or shield repping the damage dealers in tthe group.

3: The introduction of plexes where players can essentially buy them from CCP and sell them on the market, potentially making billions depending on just how many they buy off CCP.....This last one is getting pretty close to pay to win in my book and i wouldn't be surprised if sometime down the line CCP even introduces offers for skill point packs.


When i was in 0.0, none of the above existed and regardless if the pilot was there to make isk or participate in CTA's for defensive or offensive operations or just roaming gangs destroying whatever comes in their path, they still had to be there anyhow because doing anything in high sec empire back then payed like crap by comparison.

Without having outposts and POS's or sov to worry about, and not having much isk pouring in, we can say that wars usually started and ended within a matter of weeks between major aliances in most cases since they couldn't afford to replace the losses as easily as they can today....wars can drag on for years now.


i'm sorry to say it, but eve is seriously watered down in terms of difficulty, and has a lot more ways to make silly amounts of money and yet people still complain that it's too hard.....

been in over half of w-space systems, never lost a ship

Is absolutely everything a zero-sum game?

The point I was getting at is that it ought to be possible to enhance certain aspects of the mechanics of the game economy without it necessarily be a nerf elsewhere.

Or, what's gained from a 'buff' and lost from a 'nerf' balances out to something greater than zero, i.e. the overall state of the game has been enhanced.

I don't think mechanics that result in enhancements/gains to the null-sec economy/markets/production need necessarily dictate that precisely an exact amount of loss will occur elsewhere (e.g. high-sec).

Thanks for the cliche though.

Ok easiest way to look at this

Here is manufacturer A

He used to mine in Null and import the hi-sec minerals he needed to make his goods in Null until he got his precious 200 mill isk hulk ganked. So he realized that instead of mining himself it was actually more cost effective to just buy the minerals off someone else but that meant hauling across Null and risking losing it.

So he looked around and realized it was more cost effective to just do the lot in Hi-sec as the risk is massively reduced for a small alliance member.

So he did this for a while and would then export it back to Null when he then realized that being in a small alliance that this was a lot of risk for a few isk so he just started selling in JIta what he made.

Now by magic Null gets a lot of better facilities to produce goods and a lot of minerals, so he returns to Null and starts mining again this time everything he needs to make goods but there are so few NPC stations and they have suddenly been filled with the new ability to manufacture so he instantly decides to put up a POS to manufacture and then it occurs to him that with the cost of a manufacturing POS he will lose money compared to what he was making in Hi-sec using NPC facilities.

So now someone buffs POSs and nerfs NPC facilities, great he can put up his POS and manufacture and do it better and cheaper than hi-sec and so he decides to export all he makes to hi-sec as the best profit is there, the Jita market is soon flooded with goods from Null and the profit margin is back to where he was making in Hi-sec before but unfortunately everyone manufacturer who would not leave Hi-sec due to the fear of risk could not compete with the cheap Null products so they jumped out their airlocks.

Then someone realised that jump drives where tearing the space/time continuum apart and actually needed to use 8 times the fuel they were before to run safely and now we have Null independent and able to manufacture what they need and people in Hi-sec able to put up POSs that mean something and the market is not flooded with cheap Null nock offs and people who only dabble in mining and manufacturing are using the NPC facilities that while not as good as a POS are still a great way to dabble.

It's not a bad idea but I can't see you getting it done. Even if you did manage to get all the major coalitions to agree to it, prices would inevitably start to rise in high sec, you're right but at some point you are going to get null industrialists who decide to take advantage of the massive profits to be had in high and all you need is likely to be a cyno alt, easily attainable even with high sec only resources.

I like your plan but I just don't see it happening, that first hurdle is roughly the height of a skyscraper and if you do manage to clear it some greedy people will line their own pockets rather than sticking to the plan and as soon as one does it the flood gates will open and we'll be right back where we are now.

That is why jump drives and bridges need to consume so much more fuel atm an ashar only uses about 28 isk in fuel per m2 if you raise this to 8 times its current amount it will adequately protect the hi-sec markets so they will still have the ability to operate competitively within their own markets as it will raise the cost of transport to 224 isk per m2 so still not a huge profit margin but when you add it to the risk it will allow hi-sec to remain worthwhile.

I of course would like to see moon mining made an active process as well and not limiting the moons placements to any region or security in space except of course Hi-sec (or maybe even set it up like PI where you can do it in hi-sec but it is really not worth it, maybe a special laser powered by isotopes?), so that it is another profitable operation for those willing to take risks rather than the super AFK mining it is atm.