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Carrier tips and tricks.

Author
Lukas Flamesword
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-12-30 20:33:01 UTC
Darius Brinn wrote:
I am curious about the intented use for that Carrier.

I mean, this character will be five years in January and I haven't even INJECTED Advanced spaceship command. Not ready.

I always saw Carriers as monster Logis, absolutely dependent on their fleet to survive. They are big, they are clumsy, they are expensive, and they are called primary.

With a 4 months character...man. You will need:

-Very good tanking skills. Compensations to V and all.
-Very good cap skills, meaning not only Engineering ones, but Energy emission systems, etc.
-Fitting skils.
-Drone interfacing V (one month)
-Very good cap transfer skills, and shield transfer/remote armor repping skills.
-Triage > Logistics V + Long Range targetting V + Signature analysis V = close to one month and a half.
-Carrier skill = battleship skill to V, Advanced spaceship command > close to another two months.

Even if you would only wish to SIT on your Carrier, unable to do anything else, you're looking at quite a few months before you can undock it.

And if you want to be USEFUL in any real way...well, let's say you are not playing with Carriers anytime soon.

i have already planed that. 1-1.5 years of training will go into it before i even consider pressing the undock bottom
Christine Peeveepeeski
Low Sec Concepts
#22 - 2012-12-30 20:47:45 UTC
I started training for one, can now fly it well on the alt that flies it and still haven't undocked it.

A carrier is good for being a low sec taxi for your ships OR its good for a well organised fleet with a doctrine that supports the use of the carrier and it supports the doctrine back.

So the first question you ask yourself is 'why do I need a carrier?'

If you believe that in a years time you'll have a well formed military presence and the skilled FCs that will mean you aren't just whelping it then go right ahead. Much like any other ship you or your fc will lose lots of them before you realise what they are good for....
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#23 - 2012-12-30 22:58:47 UTC
Lukas Flamesword wrote:

i have already planed that. 1-1.5 years of training will go into it before i even consider pressing the undock bottom


Consider buying a carrier pilot instead. It'll prolly run 20+ bil but that's way easier to come by than 1-2 years of training. Trust me - I've got a max skilled carrier pilot myself. :)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

SB Rico
Sumo Wrestlers
#24 - 2012-12-30 23:01:55 UTC
Another thing here, in a year to 18 months you will have an absolutely useless pilot for 99/100 situations, 18 months is not really enough to fly a carrier well, let alone anything else on top, so you will end up sitting docked up almost constantly and only getting involved once every 6 months.

To fly a carrier well you need:

maxed tank skills for shield and armor, maxed cap skills, maxed fitting skills (3-6 months),

around 10-15mil sp in drones (maxed support skills all T2 combat drones this will take around 8 months -1 year),

carrier 5, fighters 5, (6 more months)

cap remote reps, shield emission, energy emission 4/5, tactical logistics 4/5, jump drive cal4/5 jump fuel conservation 4/5, Cybernetics 5, Science 5 (another 6 months)

So after 2 1/2 years you have a decent carrier toon who can do nothing else .

To give you an idea of the actual scale of the project I bought a 20mil sp focussed carrier toon (ie one that did what you plan) last month and estimate that toon is still 18 months away from being viable (another 15-20mil sp).

Now your 5 year old corpmate may well be months off doing carriers well but then he already probably has 40mil sp in the right support skills.

If you are really determined to go carrier get a second account just for that, then train the toon you have as a day to day pilot, or vice versa.
Better still train your toon to fly a T3 well (6 months) then 6 months doing wormholes and incursions make 15-25 bil and buy a carrier pilot from the character bazaar and save the ballache of training and around 18 :)

Incidentally chimera is a bad choice, Archon/Thanatos are the best carriers atm.

Or just listen to all the people on here trying to tell you it is a bad idea for one in your situation.

Scammers are currently selling killrights on this toon for up to 5mil, if you have paid for this service demand your money back at once.

Killing me should be for free.

Lukas Flamesword
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-12-31 00:01:15 UTC
SB Rico wrote:
Another thing here, in a year to 18 months you will have an absolutely useless pilot for 99/100 situations, 18 months is not really enough to fly a carrier well, let alone anything else on top, so you will end up sitting docked up almost constantly and only getting involved once every 6 months.

To fly a carrier well you need:

maxed tank skills for shield and armor, maxed cap skills, maxed fitting skills (3-6 months),

around 10-15mil sp in drones (maxed support skills all T2 combat drones this will take around 8 months -1 year),

carrier 5, fighters 5, (6 more months)

cap remote reps, shield emission, energy emission 4/5, tactical logistics 4/5, jump drive cal4/5 jump fuel conservation 4/5, Cybernetics 5, Science 5 (another 6 months)

So after 2 1/2 years you have a decent carrier toon who can do nothing else .

To give you an idea of the actual scale of the project I bought a 20mil sp focussed carrier toon (ie one that did what you plan) last month and estimate that toon is still 18 months away from being viable (another 15-20mil sp).

Now your 5 year old corpmate may well be months off doing carriers well but then he already probably has 40mil sp in the right support skills.

If you are really determined to go carrier get a second account just for that, then train the toon you have as a day to day pilot, or vice versa.
Better still train your toon to fly a T3 well (6 months) then 6 months doing wormholes and incursions make 15-25 bil and buy a carrier pilot from the character bazaar and save the ballache of training and around 18 :)

Incidentally chimera is a bad choice, Archon/Thanatos are the best carriers atm.

Or just listen to all the people on here trying to tell you it is a bad idea for one in your situation.

that actually sounds like an awesome idea. altough i could just PLEX my way to a carrier pilot :D
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-12-31 00:55:45 UTC
Hmmmm...

TO answer the OP on uses of a carrier and how to use them well.

1. Carriers are not solo ships. This is an important lesson, and one that many people do not take to heart endding up with some very funny loss mails for everyone else to show off.

2. Actual Carrier uses
2.1-> Logistics
--> moving your stuff around, this is the most common use for carriers. Transporting stuff around the fringes of empire so that you do not have to do the 30+ jumps of lowsec makes life much easier. But you are mostly just a defensible ship hauler that takes forever on a station to gank, Its not impossible, but you will most likely be able to dock before they can bring enough guns to bear on you. provided you did it right and did not aggress or bounce off the station.
--> POS/ Structure repping, Usually done in fleets and insanely boring solo. good for saving the tower of your isk making buddies while you struggle for that plex.
--> MIssion/WH support. another popular use for carriers, Support means that you have filled your highslots with drone control mods and are sitting just barely outside your pos shields. while assigning drones to people actually doing stuff. usually an alt character.

2.1.-> Flying missions or sitting in a Sleeper site.
-->Everyonce in a while i hear about some lol mail of an officer fit carrier in a wh getting ganked by a tier 3 bc fleet (or in the past, an ahac/dictor group) Or even a ratting carrier getting found by a lonely mostly afk cloaky with a batphone connection. Try not to be this guy unless you are in my sector of space and not a blue.

2.2. Fleet carriers.
-->sometimes there is a call over coms for a trojan carrier to be the first to jump through a contested cyno and light a new one when the drake dies. this is a sometimes good use of a carrier but more often then not you will be filing the paperwork for a alliance replacement and searching for some fighters to put into the next one. this one is up to you.
-->More often though is the triage carrier call, some alliance head has gotten his alt into some stupid skirmish and needs support. This is the batphone call. Be prepared to be in a fleet of carriers trying to save a nightmare or bhaalghorn worth more then your total net worth.
--> the last and most seemingly often, the biggest time waster is the CTA call, rep this pos, be prepared to fight x, shoot those structures. if you are not a well skilled carrier pilot, you will most likely be asked to downgrade to meatshield bs.

3.Well for smaller work, sure you can assign fighters to sit on the gate with your dictor buddy, and since the gate gun aggro changes im sure there will be more of this (im not 100% sure that gates wont shoot fighters but i hear they do not shoot drones anymore) sure you could assign drones to fly lowsec missions or whatnot with your friends, but you will really need a pos setup (or i guess station works too) or a group of carriers to make any real dent in anything.

I would say train for it, most of the skills are useful for other reasons. but caldari carriers are bad for many things. do not focus on it because of racial history, Ive got a thanny ive undocked twice, and could fly the others if i ever got around to buying one of them. As a nominally empire pilot (havent had a stint in null for more then a year now) i havent found a good use for a carrier. though i would have loved to have had one when i was a null pilot.

Isk spent on skillbooks is never wasted*, you simply arent using them to their full potential.

*except for skills changed/removed by CCP

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2013-01-01 06:18:28 UTC
check you tube for the following search words

eve online triage carrier rooks and kings clarion call

Watch at how heroic you can become then cry at how long it will take you to skill up.

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships

Kuranei
The Flying Dead
#28 - 2013-01-01 10:44:20 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Lukas Flamesword wrote:
so. after a bit of thinking and the fact that im going to lead the military division of a newer corp. i decided to train for a carrier. so after i have read all the guides i could find (compared to other stuff. i think that there are too few of those.) so i thought that i would just ask the forum for tips/tricks that i could benefit from
(BTW im caldari. so i will train for chimera)


A few tips:
- Getting a cyno is hard so don't hesitate to ask for someone to light a cyno for you in local
- A great way to make ISK is to do level 5s in your carrier. You don't really need much tank. There's some great level 5 agents near Amamake.
- If you sit on a gate in low sec long enough you can jump through it. It's like 5 minutes but sometimes its a lot faster than waiting for a cyno!
- Carriers are almost invincible, so you don't really need to make sure to take your ships out of the maintenance bay or modules out of the corp hangar.
- You can use fighters in triage mode, so you should keep them in your drone bay when you undock to triage.
- It's perfectly safe to undock and hit triage before stopping. You will not fly off the station for 5 minutes.
- You can cancel triage mode any time you like, so you don't need to think much about when you tap that button.
- You have super long ranged remote reps so you don't need to be careful about being in range of your gang when you hit triage.
- Carriers are super tough so you should spend a lot of money on faction modules.
- Everyone in Amamake is a complete noob. You should fly there in your carrier and pwn us all.

-Liang




Man Liang you were so wrong for that on soo many levels, but gawd was it funny as hell.
Lukas Flamesword
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-01-01 11:19:52 UTC
Gevlin wrote:
check you tube for the following search words

eve online triage carrier rooks and kings clarion call

Watch at how heroic you can become then cry at how long it will take you to skill up.

man. that was epic!
mama guru
Yazatas.
#30 - 2013-01-01 14:32:33 UTC
OP: I have owned a carrier for 5 years and I have never used it in combat. I have used it for capital fleet ops back in the day and for ratting but beyond that it's of little use today thanks to supers.

EVE online is the fishermans friend of MMO's. If it's too hard you are too weak.

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#31 - 2013-01-01 21:23:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
mama guru wrote:
OP: I have owned a carrier for 5 years and I have never used it in combat. I have used it for capital fleet ops back in the day and for ratting but beyond that it's of little use today thanks to supers.


I've used my carrier in combat a few times, but it's generally few and far between. Probably less than 20-30 times total. The best reason to get a carrier is for carting your **** around, and the best reason to get a dread is to knock down structures faster. If you're willing to risk the supercaps.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Ponch Valdez
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-01-02 02:33:26 UTC
Carriers are like the swiss army knife of new eden, not everyone need them, but when they do <33333
Ave Kathrina
My Ass Is On Fire
#33 - 2013-01-02 03:26:40 UTC
Does the OP know you cannot generally fly carriers in high sec/empire ?
I've done some really stupid shit in this game.
Valea Silpha
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2013-01-02 04:11:15 UTC
People have pointed out most of the really huge problems with flying carriers. The thing that's been missing, and hopefully which will help the OP make less terrible decisions is WHY carriers aren't a good choice most of the time.

The reason is this: Any fight that you can bring a carrier to, the other guys can bring things that kill carriers. You might think you are somehow power gaming by going for the biggest ship that a single person can reasonably aspire to, but eve just doesn't work like that. Anything you can do the bad guys can do, and chances are will do so with far greater elan than you.

Once upon a time, I was in a corp with some RL friends. They were stupid people. They wanted to go knock over a POS on a decent moon in Aridia. They decided they would take out all the stops and bring their carriers with them. At this point I told them I wasn't coming with them, and that they'd all die.

They didn't even make it to the POS. They got into a little fight on a gate (about 10-15BS on each side). They thought that dropping the carriers in would help matters. They did not. Everyone still died, and so did all the carriers. During this period I mocked everyone involved in corp chat, because my pre-cognative abilities are apparently strong.

So yeah... If you can do it, someone else can. It takes either exceptional intel or giant brass balls to confidently deploy just a few capitals, and even more so to just deploy one.
Nero Pantera
Whale Girth
Touched by the Tism
#35 - 2013-01-02 04:58:02 UTC
everyone saying that being the solo carrier is bad clearly has never lived in a wh.
the most important thing.....triage.....boosts........must out recharge 2 bhaalgorns and still use mods....and combat boosters.....sexy sexy drugs.
Andracin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2013-01-02 08:14:30 UTC
I find my carrier to mostly be a cheaper alternative to a jump freighter that is able to hold fit ships. I have had it since 2006-ish and have dropped it in combat 2 times and taxied my stuff around low and null 100x +. If you are the only carrier pilot in your corp and you live in low-sec or null your going to be like the neighbor with the pickup truck... "hey man, you mind hauling my stuff?"...every time you move operations. If thats what your looking for go for it, but totally expect to eventually die. I know people who are willing to fly 50 jumps in a noob ship just to get in on a carrier kill.
Esra Udan
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#37 - 2013-01-02 16:56:03 UTC
Lukas Flamesword wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Denuo Secus wrote:
Liang why such elitist behavior? Disappointing.


It's a good set of tips for someone that knows nothing about capitals - if he can read between the lines.

-Liang

i do know something. but i was just asking if the forums had more. because most guides are outdated
BTW: the new corp im starting in is mostly made of of never players. so im one of the top 5 guys in age.


Look as a new player in a new corp filled with new people I would check out the hydra theory. Use T1 frigates and learn/train pvp with each other first.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-01-03 12:36:54 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
So look. There's nothing wrong with training for a carrier to help grow a small corp. But as a "military" asset? Forget it. It's for hauling things across several regions without trouble. And that's it.


This sums up quite good what carriers are good for, move stuff around and eventually rep pos mods/shields, personally I see it just like a ships freighter for null.
For a 2B+ mark ship it brings nothing interesting to your game experience but more constraints (specially when it comes to rep stuff and you'll understand what I mean at some point), you'd have far more fun with those 2B+ filling your hangar with T1 full fitted cruisers/BC's.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Lukas Flamesword
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#39 - 2013-01-04 06:18:51 UTC
Esra Udan wrote:

Look as a new player in a new corp filled with new people I would check out the hydra theory. Use T1 frigates and learn/train pvp with each other first.

well. we do that alot. and i used to be in tribal alliance. flying around in a stealth bomber or battlecruiser (when drakes where good :( )
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-01-04 15:45:45 UTC
I rolled an alt in May '11 and started it towards carriers. I didn't have it in one until August of 2012, and it's /still/ training carrier relevant skills.

Believe me, carriers are not a trivial skill training path as they take over a year of focused training even for a somewhat passable fleet role. I have 40M SP on my main and I have not even injected a single capital-related skill, and have no plans to do so anytime soon.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar