These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Science & Industry

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Freight Can Anchoring?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Hae Sung
#41 - 2012-12-17 17:23:47 UTC
Darenthul wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Hae Sung wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:

- they can not be accessed by anyone but the owner without creating a suspect flag. I believe this is a bug as the pop up states "you can not access this container because you are not a member of the corporation or fleet registered to it". Yet a character in both the same corporation and fleet as the can owner could not access it without getting a suspect flag. It must be a bug as it contradicts the pop up info. I expect they were intended to function just like jetcans for access.


First off, thanks for following up on this.

I've found much the same info and tried a variety of different sizes to make sure that it wasn't limited to just a single size freight container.

After running into the suspect flag issue with access I screen shotted and bug reported the issue. CCP got back to me saying that it was an issue they were unaware of and had added it to the list of things to work on.

Other than the access bug it seems to be working as intended. Would be nice though if they had some structure hit points. A GSC has 500,000 HP and can be anchored an locked.

I am fine with these not being lockable, there has to be some risk, but being able to insta pop them with a civilian gun seems to much. You are already risking the contents to be stolen. Grievers will just wait until they are close to full and pop them.


Its still awesome nonetheless, when that bug gets fixed (and if their HP buffs) we'll be able to set up some nice mining ops.

For now my fleet is going nomad, we're going to mine with like 8 of us + an Orca + a Freighter, jump to belts, use Orca to pull and load the Freighter, Freighter then goes and dumps to station when full.


If we can get a test on the life of the cans, we can see if you even need the freighter on sight.

I'm envisioning an orca tractor-beaming the cans along behind them with the freighter parked in station or at POS. Really only need the freighter to come out for pickup. The rest of the time the freighter pilot can be piloting an extra miner or the Orca to help the efficiency of the operation.
Hae Sung
#42 - 2012-12-17 17:26:25 UTC
I'm heading out for a couple hours with the kids. Will drop one of each of the freight containers in space and see if they're there in a couple of hours when I get home. It's not empirical data but it'll work in the meantime to see if they survive the 2-hour timeline.

I know there's reports of a freight container thats been up for days, but I'd like to confirm for myself or have someone post of doing a test, not "i heard that someone said that" stuff.
Darenthul
Anstard Armory Inc.
#43 - 2012-12-17 17:32:28 UTC
Hae Sung wrote:
Darenthul wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Hae Sung wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:

- they can not be accessed by anyone but the owner without creating a suspect flag. I believe this is a bug as the pop up states "you can not access this container because you are not a member of the corporation or fleet registered to it". Yet a character in both the same corporation and fleet as the can owner could not access it without getting a suspect flag. It must be a bug as it contradicts the pop up info. I expect they were intended to function just like jetcans for access.


First off, thanks for following up on this.

I've found much the same info and tried a variety of different sizes to make sure that it wasn't limited to just a single size freight container.

After running into the suspect flag issue with access I screen shotted and bug reported the issue. CCP got back to me saying that it was an issue they were unaware of and had added it to the list of things to work on.

Other than the access bug it seems to be working as intended. Would be nice though if they had some structure hit points. A GSC has 500,000 HP and can be anchored an locked.

I am fine with these not being lockable, there has to be some risk, but being able to insta pop them with a civilian gun seems to much. You are already risking the contents to be stolen. Grievers will just wait until they are close to full and pop them.


Its still awesome nonetheless, when that bug gets fixed (and if their HP buffs) we'll be able to set up some nice mining ops.

For now my fleet is going nomad, we're going to mine with like 8 of us + an Orca + a Freighter, jump to belts, use Orca to pull and load the Freighter, Freighter then goes and dumps to station when full.


If we can get a test on the life of the cans, we can see if you even need the freighter on sight.

I'm envisioning an orca tractor-beaming the cans along behind them with the freighter parked in station or at POS. Really only need the freighter to come out for pickup. The rest of the time the freighter pilot can be piloting an extra miner or the Orca to help the efficiency of the operation.


Well for multi-system work its just easier to have the Freighter on hand, especially since a belt or two /should/ fill a Freighter ideally, but yea just dropping the cans is the better way to do it.

"I find mining to be an incredibly relaxing thing to do after work. It's like fishing without waking up early. Or cold. But the beer, the beer is the same." - arramdaywalker
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#44 - 2012-12-17 18:45:22 UTC
In a mining op, I use a dedicated hauler to keep the Orca(s) empty.

The hauler just dumps ore / ice at the nearest station in the system, without regard for refining. Later, I use freighter(s) to move the ore / ice to a station for refining,

I use a Caldari Bustard DST for its sturdiness (EHP vs. m3), even though it can't carry a full jetcan without using containers. The Minmatar Mastodon is very close to the Bustard in EHP though.

One can even use another Orca as a hauler, but this is really only needed when harvesting ice, or really large ore mining ops. I've handled two Orca + 25 Hulk ops using just the DST, but it does keep the DST pilot busy.

The hauler can even warp directly to miners when they are spread-out in a large gravimetric or ladar site and using jetcans. Especially in w-space this is the way to go, so that an Orca doesn't have to be with the miners and exposed to attack.
Hae Sung
#45 - 2012-12-17 21:23:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Hae Sung
Tau Cabalander wrote:
In a mining op, I use a dedicated hauler to keep the Orca(s) empty.

The hauler just dumps ore / ice at the nearest station in the system, without regard for refining. Later, I use freighter(s) to move the ore / ice to a station for refining,

I use a Caldari Bustard DST for its sturdiness (EHP vs. m3), even though it can't carry a full jetcan without using containers. The Minmatar Mastodon is very close to the Bustard in EHP though.

One can even use another Orca as a hauler, but this is really only needed when harvesting ice, or really large ore mining ops. I've handled two Orca + 25 Hulk ops using just the DST, but it does keep the DST pilot busy.

The hauler can even warp directly to miners when they are spread-out in a large gravimetric or ladar site and using jetcans. Especially in w-space this is the way to go, so that an Orca doesn't have to be with the miners and exposed to attack.



That sounds not too terribly inefficient. I personally mine with 5 x Mackinaws atm and when they fill up just have one of the mackinaw pilots (usually the one who yields the least) make the rounds and drop all the ore at station then start up again once the accumulated ore is dropped off.

Quote:
I'm heading out for a couple hours with the kids. Will drop one of each of the freight containers in space and see if they're there in a couple of hours when I get home. It's not empirical data but it'll work in the meantime to see if they survive the 2-hour timeline.

I know there's reports of a freight container thats been up for days, but I'd like to confirm for myself or have someone post of doing a test, not "i heard that someone said that" stuff.


Just got back and checked, all three cans are still up after 3 hours. I'll check on them later tonight and then tomorrow after downtime to ensure they're still there.


Edit: And still up after downtime. Passes all reasonable use tests for duration of can at this point. Taking them down.
Hae Sung
#46 - 2012-12-18 04:22:19 UTC
Still up 10 hours after dropping. Safe to say they'll last for the duration of a normal mining operation. I'll check again after down time to verify their durability again before collecting.

If/When accessibility is addressed, then we can expect to use these comfortably on mining operations with the requisite support. The extra 15% yield from a Hulk can be properly utilized, and the peasants can appropriately rejoice. (appropriately retyped 3 times due to rum. yay for drunk EVE.)

Any other tests that people would like to be conducted on these containers while I still have them up?
Darenthul
Anstard Armory Inc.
#47 - 2012-12-18 13:25:34 UTC
Hae Sung wrote:
Still up 10 hours after dropping. Safe to say they'll last for the duration of a normal mining operation. I'll check again after down time to verify their durability again before collecting.

If/When accessibility is addressed, then we can expect to use these comfortably on mining operations with the requisite support. The extra 15% yield from a Hulk can be properly utilized, and the peasants can appropriately rejoice. (appropriately retyped 3 times due to rum. yay for drunk EVE.)

Any other tests that people would like to be conducted on these containers while I still have them up?


I have a question, when he said they could be held unassembled at 2500 and instantly assemble on jettison, does this mean an Orca could drop the cans then a Freighter pick them up later?

"I find mining to be an incredibly relaxing thing to do after work. It's like fishing without waking up early. Or cold. But the beer, the beer is the same." - arramdaywalker
Hae Sung
#48 - 2012-12-18 13:35:12 UTC
Darenthul wrote:
Hae Sung wrote:
Still up 10 hours after dropping. Safe to say they'll last for the duration of a normal mining operation. I'll check again after down time to verify their durability again before collecting.

If/When accessibility is addressed, then we can expect to use these comfortably on mining operations with the requisite support. The extra 15% yield from a Hulk can be properly utilized, and the peasants can appropriately rejoice. (appropriately retyped 3 times due to rum. yay for drunk EVE.)

Any other tests that people would like to be conducted on these containers while I still have them up?


I have a question, when he said they could be held unassembled at 2500 and instantly assemble on jettison, does this mean an Orca could drop the cans then a Freighter pick them up later?


I can test that later today for feasability. Under current mechanics however once the Orca dropped the can it would belong to the Orca pilot. So unless the freighter pilot and the orca pilot are the same person you'd be "stealing" from your Orca pilot when you picked up the can.

As for the Jettison/Expanding trick, I haven't tried this myself. When I take a break from stuff later today I'll give it a whirl and see what happens.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#49 - 2012-12-18 14:15:16 UTC
Hae Sung wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
I am fine with these not being lockable, there has to be some risk, but being able to insta pop them with a civilian gun seems to much. You are already risking the contents to be stolen. Grievers will just wait until they are close to full and pop them.



I was trying to decide if this was something I was too upset about (griefers gotta eat, and tears aren't always cheap) but then I realized that pretty much everything player created has some level of hit points. Jet cans being poppable in one hit makes some sense as they are a game mechanic designed just to hold stuff in space and require no effort to create.

Just curious, but popping the can cause GCC or just a suspect flag to pop up?


I actually didn't test that. I popped it with the toon that launched it. It is possible that them not having any structure points was just an oversight. They probably used the base code from the existing freight container rather than the code from the GSC. Since freight containers were not launchable before there was no need for them to have structural hitpoints.

I believe these were only added to restore jetcan mining as an option. It was pointless to jetcan mine once some mining ships could hold more than a full jetcan. So they may have wanted to maintain the risk associated with jetcan mining while adding the utility of massive storage at a higher risk, just like jetcan mining was before.
Nightshade Mary
Darkwater Innovations
#50 - 2012-12-18 14:31:42 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Hae Sung wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
I am fine with these not being lockable, there has to be some risk, but being able to insta pop them with a civilian gun seems to much. You are already risking the contents to be stolen. Grievers will just wait until they are close to full and pop them.



I was trying to decide if this was something I was too upset about (griefers gotta eat, and tears aren't always cheap) but then I realized that pretty much everything player created has some level of hit points. Jet cans being poppable in one hit makes some sense as they are a game mechanic designed just to hold stuff in space and require no effort to create.

Just curious, but popping the can cause GCC or just a suspect flag to pop up?


I actually didn't test that. I popped it with the toon that launched it. It is possible that them not having any structure points was just an oversight. They probably used the base code from the existing freight container rather than the code from the GSC. Since freight containers were not launchable before there was no need for them to have structural hitpoints.

I believe these were only added to restore jetcan mining as an option. It was pointless to jetcan mine once some mining ships could hold more than a full jetcan. So they may have wanted to maintain the risk associated with jetcan mining while adding the utility of massive storage at a higher risk, just like jetcan mining was before.


I don't know if it was an oversight, during testing you could deploy station containers as well and they'd assemble when jettisoned. (Just like packed ships do).

Must have been amusing to have a can floating in space with 1 million structure. ;)
Iosue
League of Gentlemen
The Initiative.
#51 - 2012-12-19 03:11:47 UTC
Just to add a couple of things...

Darenthul wrote:
I have a question, when he said they could be held unassembled at 2500 and instantly assemble on jettison, does this mean an Orca could drop the cans then a Freighter pick them up later?


yes, i tried this with my group using different orca and freighter pilots. no flags on scoop, but all were in same corp (though not fleet).

and you can't tractor the freight containers, so once they're deployed, you're gonna need a freighter to move them.
Matthl Sile
To. The. Stars.
#52 - 2012-12-28 18:36:21 UTC
Hi,

are there any news on this topic?

I have just tried to haul some ore out of an enormous freight conti, which was set up by a corp member. But it would have only worked (i guess) if i accepted to get a suspect flag and changed the safety switch. We were in the same fleet. And the container was white. Not yellow. I could take ore out of a jetcan without any problem.

Is this listed as a bug by ccp? Or working as intended?

Furthermore... How long will freight containers remain in space before they despawn?
Does somebody have reliable numbers?

Thanks,

Matthl
Versuvius Marii
Browncoats of Persephone
Ironworks Coalition
#53 - 2012-12-30 18:28:47 UTC
Darenthul wrote:
Supabad wrote:
I don't think once you jet a freight container that you can access in terms of a barge putting ore into the jettisoned container.


This is what I'm wanting to confirm before I shell out the bill for a Freighter.

Then get onto Sisi and try it out. 20 mins tops to sort out the client, then 100 isk for each item you're purchasing. Surely a lot quicker/easier/cheaper than testing it in the brutal environment of TQ.

The Gaming MoD - retro to modern, console to MMO, I blog about it if it's a game and I'm interested in it. Yes, I play games other than Eve and I don't care if you think I'm wrong.
Dar Saleem
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2012-12-31 00:22:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Dar Saleem
Matthl Sile wrote:
Hi,


Furthermore... How long will freight containers remain in space before they despawn?
Does somebody have reliable numbers?




I had some up for 5 days, I took them home because I wasn't going to need them anymore.

Quote:


I have just tried to haul some ore out of an enormous freight conti, which was set up by a corp member. But it would have only worked (i guess) if i accepted to get a suspect flag and changed the safety switch. We were in the same fleet. And the container was white. Not yellow. I could take ore out of a jetcan without any problem.




I just scoop the whole container if that becomes a problem
Rio Bravo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#55 - 2013-01-01 00:24:06 UTC
Was waiting for something like this. Been testing out various stuff mentioned here. There is a glitch with getting a global suspect in the same fleet. Hope they add some structure, even a bit. Also hope that glitch is fixed soon. If you could deploy them within a POS shield, then it would be password protected. In that only those knowing it, could get passed the shield to access your deployed freight container. Haven`t tried this yet.
Off Grid Ore Depot in a safe spot is a good idea, in that you can`t scan them. I like this new feature, stationless systems are more accessible now. Will have to come up with some cool ideas to use these containers with. If pirates shoot it, do they get criminal flag or do they get suspect? Haven't tried that yet either.

“You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. I dig.”  - Clint Eastwood, misquote.
Darkblad
Doomheim
#56 - 2013-03-05 21:07:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Darkblad
Since Retribution 1.0, I also did some tests regarding jettisoned Freight containers with this outcome:


1. Jettisoned Freight Containers (JFC) in space last at least a week - the time I was able to check wether it's still there (then, Buckingham closed).

2. JFC are yellow for Corp members, Fleet members and Corp members in fleet as well. No matter wether those are on grid the moment the container is launched or not. For those members who didn't jettison the cans, consequences are:

2a. Looting triggers the suspect flag (only if safety is set to less than green of course).

2b. Attempting to put items into the JFC fails with
20:06:43 Hint You cannot put items into that container because it does not belong to you.

2c. Scooping JFC with a Freighter doesn't trigger any flag/timer.

3. Shooting JFC:
If owner and aggressing player are not in the same corporation, shooting it will trigger the criminal timer (as well as weapon and pvp of course, and certainly only if safety is set to red). The owner (who jettisoned it) will earn a kill right against the aggressing player.
If both are in the same corp, only pvp and weapon timer are triggered.

Doing damage to the JFC showed different results in my attempts:
First attempt: The JFC just vanishes as reported before with no contents left behind, after doing just 4 damage with a Civilian Laser.
Second attempt: Doing just 2 damage results in 76 % structure left on the JFC without popping the JFC, another 3 damage brings it down to 48 %, my final shot with 3 damage then made the JFC vanish (Civilian Autocannon for these attempts)


Maybe related note regarding lifespan of Freight Containers in Space: In early/mid 2012 I noticed Freight containers at the Bei gate in Hagilur. If I remember correctly, getting info on them pointed to a pilot who lost a Fenrir roughly a month ago. This is not confirmed and changes to Freight Containers may have had impact on that. But it appears like such containers at least did last quite a while in space before

NPE – ISD – RIP
Darkblad
Doomheim
#57 - 2013-05-26 07:34:53 UTC
Short update to my experiments on Sisi: Nothing changed regarding access rights for corp/fleet members to jettisoned freight containers. Still none :/

As the new mirror ist taking longer to be applied, though, my JFC are still in space after 44 days. I launched them on the 12. of April.

NPE – ISD – RIP
Adunh Slavy
#58 - 2013-05-27 05:31:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Adunh Slavy
I have not tested this as it relates to Jettisoned Freight Containers, nor will I, but ya'll can give it a try.

Have the character, who will drop the Jettisoned Freight Container, add anyone who needs to add/remove items from it, as a contact AND give that contact excellent standings. Excellent standings translates to +10 standings.

Back before Eve gate, and the contact/standings GUI we have now, you could set ANYONE to +10 and they could take from your cans, tractor your wrecks, etc, even someone with whom you were at war. They didn't have to be in your fleet or your corp.

I suspect the reason you guys are having this issue is because, when the player jets the FC, they are jetting it "as self". I am sure you have seen, when anchoring a GSC, you can launch for corp or self. When you launch for corp, its permissions are based on the corp, when you do it for self, the permissions are based on the anchoring character.

Give it a shot and see what happens.

P.S. One bit of warning, only give +10 to those you trust, and as a corp, never set anyone as +10 unless you know for sure you can trust that character.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Darkblad
Doomheim
#59 - 2013-05-28 14:47:38 UTC
Good point! But unfortunately, that didn't work when I tested it. Players with excellent standing (+10) are still not able to remove items with green safety, and adding to it still doesn't work at all What?

NPE – ISD – RIP
Iosue
League of Gentlemen
The Initiative.
#60 - 2013-05-28 16:22:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Iosue
just a little feedback from my experience:

Darkblad wrote:
1. Jettisoned Freight Containers (JFC) in space last at least a week - the time I was able to check wether it's still there (then, Buckingham closed).
i've had several going on 5 months out in null.

Darkblad wrote:
2a. Looting triggers the suspect flag (only if safety is set to less than green of course).
i'm a little confused about this one as i've never been able to loot a freight can with corp member/fleet member or whatever. (now that i think of it, i've never taken off the green safety button, but i have tried this in null. hmm...)

Darkblad wrote:
2b. Attempting to put items into the JFC fails with
20:06:43 Hint You cannot put items into that container because it does not belong to you.
i've used enormous cans in hi-sec and null. those in hi-sec don't allow corp members (or anyone) to deposit as noted above. However, the cans i have in null do allow corp members to make deposits into other cans( i've not tested this with non-corp members). although only the owner can access it after that point.