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You did it to yourselves - Yet Another Boost null/low, nerf hi thread, except not.

Author
psycho freak
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2012-12-30 00:59:07 UTC
there is no npc null damn

but if you read bck you see turning all sov null to npc space was somthing I sugested but that might be to dangaras for nullsheep

my spelling sux brb find phone number for someone who gives a fu*k

nop cant find it

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#62 - 2012-12-30 01:04:00 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
damn you nulluminati for making 20b stations have worse refining and manufacturing, both efficiency and capacity-wise, then free npc corp stations

why null leaders did you do this? whyyy?

why couldn't you all learn from CVA's NRDS example?

If only setting everyone red before shooting them would make the stations better.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

psycho freak
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2012-12-30 01:11:16 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
damn you nulluminati for making 20b stations have worse refining and manufacturing, both efficiency and capacity-wise, then free npc corp stations

why null leaders did you do this? whyyy?

why couldn't you all learn from CVA's NRDS example?

If only setting everyone red before shooting them would make the stations better.



you still av some reds? quick go take they space then alt post about how null broken and nurff hisec


but to stay on topic

I can understand null needs buff lived nul for many years but dont nurff othe areas

buff null let the playets decide were they wana live

my spelling sux brb find phone number for someone who gives a fu*k

nop cant find it

Qolde
Scrambled Eggs Inc.
#64 - 2012-12-30 01:14:33 UTC
psycho freak wrote:
there is no npc null damn

but if you read bck you see turning all sov null to npc space was somthing I sugested but that might be to dangaras for nullsheep

There's enough NPC null as it is. You should come down some time. A few orphan blobtards have moved in, but other than that it's good fun around here.

If someone craps in your sandbox: 1. Light it on fire 2. Grab your shovel 3. Throw it back at them.

psycho freak
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2012-12-30 01:24:09 UTC
Qolde wrote:
psycho freak wrote:
there is no npc null damn

but if you read bck you see turning all sov null to npc space was somthing I sugested but that might be to dangaras for nullsheep

There's enough NPC null as it is. You should come down some time. A few orphan blobtards have moved in, but other than that it's good fun around here.




thnx m8 but I av no intrest in null if I did id probly rejion A4D or outbreak but them days are behind me im just a losec scumag now lol

my spelling sux brb find phone number for someone who gives a fu*k

nop cant find it

Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2012-12-30 01:24:17 UTC
Qolde wrote:
It can be better, even with the current game mechanics.



nope ! the current situation is almost 90% game mechanics and 10% people

some reasons why you simply can not get a nullsec industrial empire running (other than for building supercaps)

1. highsec is WAY to good compared to nullsec
- build slots are available for virtually free and in abundance
- same with 100% refineries, often in combination
- same with lowend minerals

Example: Right You need one Minmatar Outpost, several Amarr Outposts, some rorquals, several towers and at least one JF to "start" a nullsec industrial corp (not even talking about an alliance !) the additional profits that come with faster manufacturing and research don't even come close to paying that (that = at LEAST 100bn ISK) in a reasonable amount of time, it is also a major pain in the ass and simply not worth it. period

Solution:
- a starbase system that allows building structures that have both, a 100% refinery and loads of production slots in the same place
- highsec refineries and production slots should be worse and/or more expensive than those in 00 by at least 10% that can not be bypassed
- add a nice amount of lowend minerals to gneiss and spodumain
- add more ore variations (hyperdense veldspar, 30% more minerals ...)

2. corp mechanics
- all or nothing, you can not allow someone to build stuff without letting him cancel everyones jobs currently running
- hangar access
- there is no corp or alliance income to gain from industrialists

Solution:
- fix corp mechanics
- introduce a way to tax members for using infrastructure in a way that lets both parties profit from it
- more hangar divisions to allow a better organisation of blueprints and the like.

3. reasons to have an inustrial backbone:
- there is no way an alliance can profit from having a strong industrial backbone (in it's own territory)

Solution:
- introduce a way to tax members for using infrastructure in a way that lets both parties profit from it, much (maybe 20%) better (faster, less waste, ...) industrial lines for the producer, 10% Tax for the alliance

4. mentality (the 10% people)
- there are people out there who want all the cool stuff without doing anything for it.

Solution:
- will solve itself, useless corps and people have always, and will always be kicked, if you do not want to fight for your stuff, it will be removed from you, either with enemy help or by our own hands
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
#67 - 2012-12-30 01:27:23 UTC
i fully support OP

finally a good suggestion that doesnt require CCP to do anything - which is exactly why it wont work
Frying Doom
#68 - 2012-12-30 01:30:47 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
Qolde wrote:
It can be better, even with the current game mechanics.



nope ! the current situation is almost 90% game mechanics and 10% people

some reasons why you simply can not get a nullsec industrial empire running (other than for building supercaps)

1. highsec is WAY to good compared to nullsec
- build slots are available for virtually free and in abundance
- same with 100% refineries, often in combination
- same with lowend minerals

Example: Right You need one Minmatar Outpost, several Amarr Outposts, some rorquals, several towers and at least one JF to "start" a nullsec industrial corp (not even talking about an alliance !) the additional profits that come with faster manufacturing and research don't even come close to paying that (that = at LEAST 100bn ISK) in a reasonable amount of time, it is also a major pain in the ass and simply not worth it. period

Solution:
- a starbase system that allows building structures that have both, a 100% refinery and loads of production slots in the same place
- highsec refineries and production slots should be worse and/or more expensive than those in 00 by at least 10% that can not be bypassed
- add a nice amount of lowend minerals to gneiss and spodumain
- add more ore variations (hyperdense veldspar, 30% more minerals ...)

2. corp mechanics
- all or nothing, you can not allow someone to build stuff without letting him cancel everyones jobs currently running
- hangar access
- there is no corp or alliance income to gain from industrialists

Solution:
- fix corp mechanics
- introduce a way to tax members for using infrastructure in a way that lets both parties profit from it
- more hangar divisions to allow a better organisation of blueprints and the like.

3. reasons to have an inustrial backbone:
- there is no way an alliance can profit from having a strong industrial backbone (in it's own territory)

Solution:
- introduce a way to tax members for using infrastructure in a way that lets both parties profit from it, much (maybe 20%) better (faster, less waste, ...) industrial lines for the producer, 10% Tax for the alliance

4. mentality (the 10% people)
- there are people out there who want all the cool stuff without doing anything for it.

Solution:
- will solve itself, useless corps and people have always, and will always be kicked, if you do not want to fight for your stuff, it will be removed from you, either with enemy help or by our own hands

Most of that are pretty good suggestions except with the near instantaneous transport from Null to Hi-sec it will mean Hi-sec will lose its biggest customer (Null) and get flooded with cheap imports from Null, leaving no way for Hi-sec, lo-sec or wormholes with the ability to compete.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Qolde
Scrambled Eggs Inc.
#69 - 2012-12-30 01:33:13 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
Qolde wrote:
It can be better, even with the current game mechanics.



nope ! the current situation is almost 90% game mechanics and 10% people

some reasons why you simply can not get a nullsec industrial empire running (other than for building supercaps)

1. highsec is WAY to good compared to nullsec
- build slots are available for virtually free and in abundance
- same with 100% refineries, often in combination
- same with lowend minerals

Example: Right You need one Minmatar Outpost, several Amarr Outposts, some rorquals, several towers and at least one JF to "start" a nullsec industrial corp (not even talking about an alliance !) the additional profits that come with faster manufacturing and research don't even come close to paying that (that = at LEAST 100bn ISK) in a reasonable amount of time, it is also a major pain in the ass and simply not worth it. period

Solution:
- a starbase system that allows building structures that have both, a 100% refinery and loads of production slots in the same place
- highsec refineries and production slots should be worse and/or more expensive than those in 00 by at least 10% that can not be bypassed
- add a nice amount of lowend minerals to gneiss and spodumain
- add more ore variations (hyperdense veldspar, 30% more minerals ...)

2. corp mechanics
- all or nothing, you can not allow someone to build stuff without letting him cancel everyones jobs currently running
- hangar access
- there is no corp or alliance income to gain from industrialists

Solution:
- fix corp mechanics
- introduce a way to tax members for using infrastructure in a way that lets both parties profit from it
- more hangar divisions to allow a better organisation of blueprints and the like.

3. reasons to have an inustrial backbone:
- there is no way an alliance can profit from having a strong industrial backbone (in it's own territory)

Solution:
- introduce a way to tax members for using infrastructure in a way that lets both parties profit from it, much (maybe 20%) better (faster, less waste, ...) industrial lines for the producer, 10% Tax for the alliance

4. mentality (the 10% people)
- there are people out there who want all the cool stuff without doing anything for it.

Solution:
- will solve itself, useless corps and people have always, and will always be kicked, if you do not want to fight for your stuff, it will be removed from you, either with enemy help or by our own hands

Those are all very good reasons that sov 0.0 wont work, and I agree with you fully. They need to be changed. But what about lowsec/ npc null? They have stations(though not nearly as bountiful and pimped out like hisec). I think that the fringes of empire (molden heath, derelik, khanid, aridia) are severely underutilized.

If someone craps in your sandbox: 1. Light it on fire 2. Grab your shovel 3. Throw it back at them.

Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2012-12-30 01:40:46 UTC
Quote:
I can understand null needs buff lived nul for many years but dont nurff othe areas


buffing null equals nerfing other areas, this argument is stupid
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2012-12-30 01:48:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Gilbaron
Quote:
Those are all very good reasons that sov 0.0 wont work, and I agree with you fully. They need to be changed. But what about lowsec/ npc null? They have stations(though not nearly as bountiful and pimped out like hisec). I think that the fringes of empire (molden heath, derelik, khanid, aridia) are severely underutilized.


there is actually :stuff: happening in lowsec, mostly reactions and quite some T2 and capital production

for NPC nullsec:

lack of stations, lack of anomalies to mine reasonable amounts of highend minerals, too many :elitepvp: corps to defend against, no system upgrades, terrible sec-status and almost nothing that highsec can't offer for a cheaper price and with much less hassle

€dit: LOWSEC gdmmit
Qolde
Scrambled Eggs Inc.
#72 - 2012-12-30 01:55:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Qolde
The minerals available to mine in npc null DEFINITELY need some CCP love. There seems to be more than enough build slots, a good amount of copy slots, and plenty of invention slots. Everything we need for lowsec/npc nullsec industry (excluding datacores) passes right through these areas on the way to jita. Why not stop a couple JF jumps short of jita and throw up some sell orders?
edit for your ninja edit: lowsec too

If someone craps in your sandbox: 1. Light it on fire 2. Grab your shovel 3. Throw it back at them.

Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2012-12-30 02:16:36 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
Quote:
Those are all very good reasons that sov 0.0 wont work, and I agree with you fully. They need to be changed. But what about lowsec/ npc null? They have stations(though not nearly as bountiful and pimped out like hisec). I think that the fringes of empire (molden heath, derelik, khanid, aridia) are severely underutilized.


there is actually :stuff: happening in lowsec, mostly reactions and quite some T2 and capital production

for NPC nullsec:

lack of stations, lack of anomalies to mine reasonable amounts of highend minerals, too many :elitepvp: corps to defend against, no system upgrades, terrible sec-status and almost nothing that highsec can't offer for a cheaper price and with much less hassle

€dit: LOWSEC gdmmit


NPC nullsec stations are much like highsec stations in terms of services. But since the stations are fewer, the oddities of highsec type stations standout enough to outweigh the perks. Like, you may have lots of cheap factory slots, but no medical. And since their isn't likely to be a couple other stations in system with medical, like you would find in highsec and lowsec, that can be a big drag.


NPC nullsec does have potential for trade hubs though, as the stations are effectively neutral to all nullsec alliances. So while it may not be advantageous to mine in npc null, or even haul minerals to factories in npc null, you can sell finished goods to a wider market by selling those in npc null.
Dark Long
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2012-12-30 05:22:46 UTC
first you idea has been tryed before and not shockly it failed. why? one little fact it would take all the alliance's in game to say ok lets do this and guess what they won't.

ill use goons as a point in this. Goons is well know for doing what they do best use everything little trick and opening in the game to make crasy isk "rember fw lp's?"

If goon's see market in high sec is lacking they would be the first ones to fly there JF's to high sec to off load there wears in a heart beat to made there isk from high sec players and you know they will one thing about goons you dont mess with there income. well that and goons are allso know for saying one thing and stabing people in the back later.

Real trade hubs in low or 0.0 pipe dream that will never get moveing for the simple fact high sec is faster and safer to move your goods around in. ok jita is not the safest but other hubs are.
EvEa Deva
Doomheim
#75 - 2012-12-30 05:25:39 UTC
If you stop the flow of ABC ores into high my melted mission loot becomes worth even more, so -1 carebear tears +1 carebear wallet fatness.

Hedion's oracle
Naari LLC
#76 - 2012-12-30 08:31:58 UTC
Goons complaining about null, man thats priceless P

Error: Working As intended

Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2012-12-30 08:56:24 UTC
Dark Long wrote:
...well that and goons are allso know for saying one thing and stabing people in the back later.


If we didn't stab in the back, how would we get that delicious back meat?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyster_%28fowl%29
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#78 - 2012-12-30 09:01:05 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Dark Long wrote:
...well that and goons are allso know for saying one thing and stabing people in the back later.

If we didn't stab in the back, how would we get that delicious back meat?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyster_%28fowl%29

It's ironic because you'd think we stabbed people in the back down south, except now they're blues. Welp.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

TharOkha
0asis Group
#79 - 2012-12-30 09:02:22 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Taxes would be merely passed onto the consumer, best solution is to match highsec industrial production capacity with highsec commodity consumption, ie: removing most station manufacturing slots, gearing down highsec large POS production capacity, research, etc. and letting scarcity increase pressure to develop new manufacturing areas.


Of course... So lets say that "Country A" has great industry on the west side, while on the east side is is uneconomical... So what do you do? Destroying flawlessly working factories on the west or buffing poor and unbalanced industry on the east? (by some advantages like better material/time manufacturing ratio etc)...

Your post lacks logic. Roll Thats why i think that this whole cry is not about balancing industry in null but it is childish envy that something is working as indeed. You simply cannot swallow that hisec dwellers are able to earn nice isks.

You have moon, goo, you can produce simple and complex reactions, you can have heavy industry (titans, supers, carriers, dreads), you can manufacture boosters. Hi sec cant. Hell, you have so much advantages, that any hisec industrial tycoon would like to have. And its not hisec fault that null bears are not able to make most of those advantages. Yet, you want to nerf hisec instead of buffing null (as i mentioned, better time/material efficiency and much more manufacturing slots for example).

Pitty and childish
Hedion's oracle
Naari LLC
#80 - 2012-12-30 09:24:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Hedion's oracle
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Dark Long wrote:
...well that and goons are allso know for saying one thing and stabing people in the back later.

If we didn't stab in the back, how would we get that delicious back meat?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyster_%28fowl%29

It's ironic because you'd think we stabbed people in the back down south, except now they're blues. Welp.

This is good news! Null will be exciting again P.......... Thank good for WH's and low sec.

Error: Working As intended