Player Features and Ideas Discussion

If you could take an activity, geared for PvE like the described mission, and rebalance it... that might be a start.

A major problem with PvE specialized ships so often desired in these missions, is that they are horribly equipped to handle PvP by comparison. Especially if they are already involved with a PvE conflict when engaged.

If a ship more geared towards PvP could be made desirable, at least the pilot being targeted would not be at such a severe disadvantage as before with ship and fittings.

Rats and exploration sites are already better in lowsec, but those are career options that don't get nearly as much attention as mindless mining and "the tutorial was missions, so I need more missions" mission running. The exploration tutorial doesn't sell exploration as a career very well, and ratting is practically unheard of by people in highsec because it's usually laughable in highsec.

If the missions in low are significantly different than the missions in high, i've never heard anything about it - that angle might be something that could be run with. Slip some extra yummies into missions from lowsec agents that are in lowsec, and see who bites. Have to agree that every PvE fitting I see looks like a fail as a PvP fit.

Ore mining is the LAST thing i'd ever think to do in lowsec. It's about the least suited to the place thing you can do, and I doubt it would even be worth it if there were ABC ores there. Trying to encourage lowsec mining seems like a downright wacky thing to push.

I suggested a possible solution on this aspect.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=184371&find=unread

The basic idea was that an actual player, while completely blinded to who and where they were fighting to prevent exploiting, would control the NPC assets against a player in a mission.

The incentive would be that they get an ISK return on damage dealt.

Such damage would be refined so it could not be recognized more than once for reward.
(you only get paid for the first time you kill their shields. If they recover that damage the isk reward is also lost.)
This is intended to encourage finishing fights, rather than prolonging them in any attempt to milk ISK.

daily bump

bumping. Also, consolidating some of my recent arguments for my ease of reference.
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Nerfing highsec operates on the assumption that players will chase rewards, so if we put more rewards, they will go there to get them. This has been proven false repeatedly. Players will go to the area that enables their favorite activity. If that's pvp, it means lowsec, FW, etc. If it's playing the massive reward, massive risk game, it's wormholes. If it's casually building an industry empire (or casual anything, really), it's highsec. So on and so forth. If you want to get people out into low/nullsec/etc, then you have to enable them to do more things there.

By way of illustration, imagine EVE as a buffet with Hamburgers, Hot Dogs, Pancakes, and Souffles. In nullsec, all of these items are not only on the table, but are of the finest quality: pure angus 1/2 pound juicy burgers, fluffy home-made pancakes, and so on. Unfortunately, they are behind a sheet of bullet proof polycarbonate that can only be opened by the people already there. Lowsec has some decent food, but no Souffles. The polycarbonate screen blocking access to the food is still there, and every bit as sturdy. In highsec, you've got frozen burgers, toaster waffles instead of pancakes, and boiled off-brand hotdogs that barely taste like meat, but now the bulletproof screen is made out of plastic wrap.

Now, which is going to attract more people? The good food that's inaccessable behind an impenetrable barrier, or the crappy food that can actually be eaten? Here's a hint, one of them involves starving to death and one doesn't.
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Here's what's really needed: a progression of Risk/Reward/Accessability from High>Null. As is plainly obvious now, no reward is enough to overcome the fact that gameplay is effectively blocked at lowsec border.
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Oh, says you (whoever you is... this is a common argument), if you know what you are doing, you can do just fine in lowsec! This is true. But how did you learn that? Who taught you? How much frustration did you endure? I had the advantage of starting the game already knowing what corp I would join, and thus got that training starting on day one. That corp is the only reason I am still playing EVE.

The average customer who simply says "hmmm, spaceships? I think I'll give that a try..." is going to quit long before they reach that point.
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Regardless of our respective opinions about the mechanics and how to address them, there is an irreconcilable difference between people like myself and people like the OP [Nerf Highsec]. The OP wants more targets to pvp with and more tears to collect; I want to increase the player retention and number of players of EVE as a whole. These are not mutually exclusive, but people like the OP have to accept that increasing EVE subscribers is a good thing and benefits everyone, themselves included, and make a couple sacrifices to accommodate it. The only sacrifice needed is to make lowsec safer, and move their current lowsec activities into NPC null, which is a pretty minor change. The gameplay you want will still be there, it's just going to move a few jumps. In it's place would be a whole new type of gameplay that noones ever seen before.

May I suggest you read the relevant entries on Making Low-sec Matter as a lot of the things have already been examined over the years.

Failheap had a thread at one point on the topic as well I think, that might also be prudent to track down and peruse.

Believe it or not, the movement to improve low-sec (ie. make it matter) is older than FW. Problem for the LS crowd was that FW co-opted the 'space' so that everything LS related in the aftermath became about FW .. would be truly glorious if a common framework for LS could be hashed out and then having FW being just one 'thing' operating within said frame.

Dont know if its been tried or mentioned...

But one idea would be to allow one jump clone very early to players, people be much more likely to risk things without their very expensive cyber implants... and probably easen up on the time hazzle jumping inbetween clones

Thanks for the link- there's a couple good ideas there. The majority of them just highlight the problem I'm trying to point out: the carrot on a stick strategy will not work (or it's inverse, Nerf Highsec). It doesn't address the problem, which is that lowsec prevents people from playing the game how they want.




This could singlehandedly solve almost every problem in eve. Pulling it off would be a massive undertaking though... and I'm not sure it would actually be popular. As you noted, actual PVP (in the sense of a fair contest of skill or wits) in EVE is extremely rare. Most of the people that PVP like it that way. That's why harvesting tears is such a popular euphemism. As good an idea as it is, I don't think it'll ever happen. We should try to figure out how to close the gap however, so that a skilled pilot in a PVE ship has a decent chance vs a dopey pilot in a PVP ship.

I wouldn't object to players fighting back. After all, that's when the fun really starts and blood gets pumping.

A friend of mine used to use the Hulk as a bait ship and had some success killing unsuspecting pilots that attacked him. The thing is this was possible, before the barge changes. Not sure what kind of fit you'd get now. So I know this was already available, but he was the only one I knew that took advantage of it.

Knowing that, I honestly don't think the none combat pilots would adapt to use it. As good as it sounds on paper, so to speak.

Confirming this! It is a rush like a rollercoaster when I get on grid with a hostile.

All your planning bears results in that first few moments, when a fight's outcome could be determined.

Did they fit a defense I can overcome? Did I fit my ship to handle what they are throwing at me?


Points for setting traps like that. Very satisfying when they walk into it.