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In defence of AFK mining

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#241 - 2012-12-29 12:37:35 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


Not going to work (again).

EHP nerf on Mack => everybody roll Retrievers since why have an easily popped, nerfed yield 200M ship when you can have a similar insurable throwaway other ship?

Also, "3 ships for different jobs" is an illusion and will stay an illusion till CCP will (ever) redo mining from scratch and make it worth actively playing. Till that day there's only 1 job and that's using the most AFK ship of all, period.


Given that t2 untanked retrievers are profitable to gank and not as good as a mack I would say that is not a very valid tactic. There are also indeed different jobs for these ships. Skiff can tank the easyest, mack can stay out the longest and the hulk get the best yeild. This is what CCP intended and all they need to do to make it happen is alter the mack a bit.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#242 - 2012-12-29 13:14:05 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


Not going to work (again).

EHP nerf on Mack => everybody roll Retrievers since why have an easily popped, nerfed yield 200M ship when you can have a similar insurable throwaway other ship?

Also, "3 ships for different jobs" is an illusion and will stay an illusion till CCP will (ever) redo mining from scratch and make it worth actively playing. Till that day there's only 1 job and that's using the most AFK ship of all, period.


Given that t2 untanked retrievers are profitable to gank and not as good as a mack I would say that is not a very valid tactic. There are also indeed different jobs for these ships. Skiff can tank the easyest, mack can stay out the longest and the hulk get the best yeild. This is what CCP intended and all they need to do to make it happen is alter the mack a bit.


Nobody of the targets cares they are profitable to gank if their ship is throwaway and insurable. What hurted a lot was to put 250M in a ship that would give no insurance and would actually yield from 1 to 3 intact armor playes for 8-14M a piece (depending on the month) to who loots it.

As for what CCP intended to do, sure it's quite logic and clear... too bad the huge majority of the playerbase see mining as "AFK mining for AFK ISK" (given how boring it is, they can't be held at fault for thinking so).

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Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#243 - 2012-12-29 13:31:57 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

As for what CCP intended to do, sure it's quite logic and clear... too bad the huge majority of the playerbase see mining as "AFK mining for AFK ISK" (given how boring it is, they can't be held at fault for thinking so).


Yes they can. If mining is so boring, than they can always find something more interesting to do, so why don't they? They can certainly be held at fault for thinking "I'm going afk because this is boring" instead of thinking "What am I doing, this is boring, I should go find something else to do."

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#244 - 2012-12-29 13:43:43 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

As for what CCP intended to do, sure it's quite logic and clear... too bad the huge majority of the playerbase see mining as "AFK mining for AFK ISK" (given how boring it is, they can't be held at fault for thinking so).


Yes they can. If mining is so boring, than they can always find something more interesting to do, so why don't they? They can certainly be held at fault for thinking "I'm going afk because this is boring" instead of thinking "What am I doing, this is boring, I should go find something else to do."


Your thought is quite obvious... maybe a bit too much. There are several cases where mining being boring is actually a plus.

IE for all those who work in the IT industry (a number of EvE players do) can slap 3-4 clients happily AFK mining while they answer helpdesk calls, go to another department to install a software and come back etc. Couldn't really pew pew or even mission doing that, mining becomes the "> 0 ISK income for when I get home and I can actually play".

A mum can sick some mining ships on ice and go "tame" the baby and painstakingly convince him to sleep.

For others mining is an ISK plus to something else. I.e. if you are a Jita trader you can sit in a mining ship while flipping orders, ISK will add up on the long run.

Mining is also the thing you can ALT TAB while doing missions, WHs or something else.

Mining boringness is seen as the "add on activity" to put additional ISK on top of some other activity.

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#245 - 2012-12-29 13:45:32 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


Nobody of the targets cares they are profitable to gank if their ship is throwaway and insurable.


Many botters lost a lot of isk trying this and the rage was oh so funny when people pointed out that if they simply tanked their ships they would make a lot more isk and lose far fewer ships.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#246 - 2012-12-29 13:51:16 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


Nobody of the targets cares they are profitable to gank if their ship is throwaway and insurable.


Many botters lost a lot of isk trying this and the rage was oh so funny when people pointed out that if they simply tanked their ships they would make a lot more isk and lose far fewer ships.


Bolded the relevant word.

Botters are effectively "nobody", they don't even live Big smile

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#247 - 2012-12-29 13:53:49 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


Botters are effectively "nobody", they don't even live Big smile


Botters are indeed the scum of the universe.
Dave Stark
#248 - 2012-12-29 15:30:05 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

As for what CCP intended to do, sure it's quite logic and clear... too bad the huge majority of the playerbase see mining as "AFK mining for AFK ISK" (given how boring it is, they can't be held at fault for thinking so).


Yes they can. If mining is so boring, than they can always find something more interesting to do, so why don't they? They can certainly be held at fault for thinking "I'm going afk because this is boring" instead of thinking "What am I doing, this is boring, I should go find something else to do."


show me any other activity in eve that can be done afk, then i'll tell you why people aren't doing that afk instead.
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#249 - 2012-12-29 16:49:41 UTC
Hi everyone,

May I remind you not to resort to personal attacks in this debate; I know it's an emotive subject but please avoid lashing out verbally.

Thanks.

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#250 - 2012-12-29 17:18:41 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Nobody of the targets cares they are profitable to gank if their ship is throwaway and insurable.

Many botters lost a lot of isk trying this and the rage was oh so funny when people pointed out that if they simply tanked their ships they would make a lot more isk and lose far fewer ships.

Since they were botters, did they also get banned?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#251 - 2012-12-29 17:32:37 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

As for what CCP intended to do, sure it's quite logic and clear... too bad the huge majority of the playerbase see mining as "AFK mining for AFK ISK" (given how boring it is, they can't be held at fault for thinking so).


Yes they can. If mining is so boring, than they can always find something more interesting to do, so why don't they? They can certainly be held at fault for thinking "I'm going afk because this is boring" instead of thinking "What am I doing, this is boring, I should go find something else to do."


Your thought is quite obvious... maybe a bit too much. There are several cases where mining being boring is actually a plus.

IE for all those who work in the IT industry (a number of EvE players do) can slap 3-4 clients happily AFK mining while they answer helpdesk calls, go to another department to install a software and come back etc. Couldn't really pew pew or even mission doing that, mining becomes the "> 0 ISK income for when I get home and I can actually play".

A mum can sick some mining ships on ice and go "tame" the baby and painstakingly convince him to sleep.

For others mining is an ISK plus to something else. I.e. if you are a Jita trader you can sit in a mining ship while flipping orders, ISK will add up on the long run.

Mining is also the thing you can ALT TAB while doing missions, WHs or something else.

Mining boringness is seen as the "add on activity" to put additional ISK on top of some other activity.




While the above mentioned examples are not "bots" as in programs meant to automate keyboard/jmouse clicks, they are indeed bot-aspirant since they aren't choosing to play the game, but are choosing to do something else OTHER than playing the game. Which, you did indeed justify and prove with your same examples.


Which is in fact the problem.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#252 - 2012-12-29 17:34:25 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Your thought is quite obvious... maybe a bit too much. There are several cases where mining being boring is actually a plus.

IE for all those who work in the IT industry (a number of EvE players do) can slap 3-4 clients happily AFK mining while they answer helpdesk calls, go to another department to install a software and come back etc. Couldn't really pew pew or even mission doing that, mining becomes the "> 0 ISK income for when I get home and I can actually play".

A mum can sick some mining ships on ice and go "tame" the baby and painstakingly convince him to sleep.

For others mining is an ISK plus to something else. I.e. if you are a Jita trader you can sit in a mining ship while flipping orders, ISK will add up on the long run.

Mining is also the thing you can ALT TAB while doing missions, WHs or something else.

Mining boringness is seen as the "add on activity" to put additional ISK on top of some other activity.

While the above mentioned examples are not "bots" as in programs meant to automate keyboard/jmouse clicks, they are indeed bot-aspirant since they aren't choosing to play the game, but are choosing to do something else OTHER than playing the game. Which, you did indeed justify and prove with your same examples.

Which is in fact the problem.

Bot aspirant behaviors Sad

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#253 - 2012-12-29 17:47:32 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Your thought is quite obvious... maybe a bit too much. There are several cases where mining being boring is actually a plus.

IE for all those who work in the IT industry (a number of EvE players do) can slap 3-4 clients happily AFK mining while they answer helpdesk calls, go to another department to install a software and come back etc. Couldn't really pew pew or even mission doing that, mining becomes the "> 0 ISK income for when I get home and I can actually play".

A mum can sick some mining ships on ice and go "tame" the baby and painstakingly convince him to sleep.

For others mining is an ISK plus to something else. I.e. if you are a Jita trader you can sit in a mining ship while flipping orders, ISK will add up on the long run.

Mining is also the thing you can ALT TAB while doing missions, WHs or something else.

Mining boringness is seen as the "add on activity" to put additional ISK on top of some other activity.

While the above mentioned examples are not "bots" as in programs meant to automate keyboard/jmouse clicks, they are indeed bot-aspirant since they aren't choosing to play the game, but are choosing to do something else OTHER than playing the game. Which, you did indeed justify and prove with your same examples.

Which is in fact the problem.

Bot aspirant behaviors Sad


Well can't really but agree. However the ball is in CCP's field on this, until they don't do something "interactive" (be it ring mining or whatever) players will just go the path of least resistance, like in all games.

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Mag's
Azn Empire
#254 - 2012-12-29 17:53:36 UTC
As long as bots are not used, I don't see any problem with people AFK mining. Neither do CCP btw.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Danks
Fat Angry Toe Tappin Inbreds
#255 - 2012-12-29 18:19:28 UTC
You can be AFK if you want, you just need to deal with the consequences.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#256 - 2012-12-29 18:25:08 UTC
Danks wrote:
You can be AFK if you want, you just need to deal with the consequences.

Let CONCORD deal with it.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#257 - 2012-12-29 18:29:35 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Danks wrote:
You can be AFK if you want, you just need to deal with the consequences.

Let CONCORD deal with it.


~You have left the area of concord protection, prepare for consequences~

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Dave Stark
#258 - 2012-12-29 18:35:33 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Your thought is quite obvious... maybe a bit too much. There are several cases where mining being boring is actually a plus.

IE for all those who work in the IT industry (a number of EvE players do) can slap 3-4 clients happily AFK mining while they answer helpdesk calls, go to another department to install a software and come back etc. Couldn't really pew pew or even mission doing that, mining becomes the "> 0 ISK income for when I get home and I can actually play".

A mum can sick some mining ships on ice and go "tame" the baby and painstakingly convince him to sleep.

For others mining is an ISK plus to something else. I.e. if you are a Jita trader you can sit in a mining ship while flipping orders, ISK will add up on the long run.

Mining is also the thing you can ALT TAB while doing missions, WHs or something else.

Mining boringness is seen as the "add on activity" to put additional ISK on top of some other activity.

While the above mentioned examples are not "bots" as in programs meant to automate keyboard/jmouse clicks, they are indeed bot-aspirant since they aren't choosing to play the game, but are choosing to do something else OTHER than playing the game. Which, you did indeed justify and prove with your same examples.

Which is in fact the problem.

Bot aspirant behaviors Sad


Well can't really but agree. However the ball is in CCP's field on this, until they don't do something "interactive" (be it ring mining or whatever) players will just go the path of least resistance, like in all games.


enjoy ccp losing all those alt miners when mining goes "interactive" because you won't be able to play the ****** mini-quick time game on several accounts at once unless you're the octopus man.

also for the isk/hour if you have to be at the pc, you're not going to be mining.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#259 - 2012-12-29 18:56:47 UTC
Mag's wrote:
As long as bots are not used, I don't see any problem with people AFK mining. Neither do CCP btw.



Correct. CCP also doesn't have an issue with players reacting to it.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#260 - 2012-12-29 18:59:49 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Mag's wrote:
As long as bots are not used, I don't see any problem with people AFK mining. Neither do CCP btw.



Correct. CCP also doesn't have an issue with players reacting to it.
Correct. If you want to shoot them, then do it. I don't see any point in moaning about it on the forum. Either put up, or shut up. Big smile

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.