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Security Status Suggestion
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Doug Dredd
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-12-29 15:57:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Doug Dredd
Hello CCP and Everyone,

So I just got back in this game (started fresh) and have been reviewing the changes since I have left.

The new flagging system perked my interest with a few major things I noticed new:

  • Criminally flagging yourself now makes you a GLOBAL target as opposed to just a target to the victim and his/her corp. This includes suspect flags for things like ore flipping and such.
  • Suspect acts like ore flipping now reduce your sec status.
  • Kill rights are now working again and though I have yet to read any further details of how/when you can activate them they seem to be quite improved.


So with all these new defenses that have been granted (which I think is fantastic despite the fact that I used to enjoy some of the consequence free flipping in the past), I was thinking that maybe it is time that outlaws are no longer shot at on sight by faction police/sentries in high sec. They already are global targets and with the improved bounty system, they might already have enough action to worry about when travelling high sec.

Just something I was thinking about because I really like the changes CCP made but it would be nice to see more outlaws roaming around high sec normally.

What does everyone else think of this?

EDIT: TLDR: Suggestion is to no longer have outlaws in high sec be shot at on sight by faction police/sentry guns.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-12-29 16:02:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Criminals always have been global targets.

Wtf have you been playing all the time ? O_o


http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Crimewatch

Read this. Again !


Edit to add your edit: Outlaws were *NEVER* being shot at by sentry turrets without any criminal flag !


http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Crimewatch
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Security_status
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sentry_guns

Read them ! You have *no* clue and should be ashamed of yourself !
Doug Dredd
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-12-29 16:08:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Doug Dredd
Solstice Project wrote:
Criminals always have been global targets.

Wtf have you been playing all the time ? O_o


http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Crimewatch

Read this. Again !


Edit to add your edit: Outlaws were *NEVER* being shot at by sentry turrets without any criminal flag !


http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Crimewatch
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Security_status
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sentry_guns

Read them ! You have *no* clue and should be ashamed of yourself !



You could be right it has been a while since I looked through it but from your articles this is the part I was talking about:

How does my security status affect my ability to travel?

Security status, or lack thereof, can have a big impact on your ability to travel through the EVE universe. Players with sufficiently low security status will be attacked by the empire navies if they enter high security systems.

Here is a brief list of your travelling options according to security status:

Players with -2.0 or worse will be attacked in 1.0 systems
Players with -2.5 or worse will be attacked in 0.9 systems
Players with -3.0 or worse will be attacked in 0.8 systems
Players with -3.5 or worse will be attacked in 0.7 systems
Players with -4.0 or worse will be attacked in 0.6 systems
Players with -4.5 or worse will be attacked in 0.5 systems
Once your security status reaches -5 you are considered an outlaw and can be attacked by players anywhere without CONCORD intervention.

The key area were empire navies
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-12-29 16:10:45 UTC
Doug Dredd wrote:
You could be right it has been a while since I looked through it but from your articles this is the part I was talking about:

How does my security status affect my ability to travel?

Security status, or lack thereof, can have a big impact on your ability to travel through the EVE universe. Players with sufficiently low security status will be attacked by the empire navies if they enter high security systems.

Here is a brief list of your travelling options according to security status:

Players with -2.0 or worse will be attacked in 1.0 systems
Players with -2.5 or worse will be attacked in 0.9 systems
Players with -3.0 or worse will be attacked in 0.8 systems
Players with -3.5 or worse will be attacked in 0.7 systems
Players with -4.0 or worse will be attacked in 0.6 systems
Players with -4.5 or worse will be attacked in 0.5 systems
Once your security status reaches -5 you are considered an outlaw and can be attacked by players anywhere without CONCORD intervention.

The key area were empire navies

Are you telling me or yourself ? I know how it works.

How it affects my ability to travel ?

It makes it more interesting.
Doug Dredd
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2012-12-29 16:22:25 UTC

Are you telling me or yourself ? I know how it works.

How it affects my ability to travel ?

It makes it more interesting.[/quote]

I know that outlaws have always been global targets and I was right before in that you are attacked in high sec by navies (just was wrong about sentries, not a high error pal).

What has changed is that getting low security status has expanded into suspect acts, which is fine. But I just think that with all the expanded changes I think that faction police firing on outlaws could be looked into. It encourages more outlaws (especially ones who will get there through suspect acts instead of the hardcore piracy as I am assuming you are trying to show with your brass balls) to fly in high sec freely.

Why is that a good thing? It's so that people who are interested in causing mischief but can't handle the restrictions from the navy (not all of us fly tanky ships, I prefer frigates myself) can still enjoy an open barrier to do so, while those on the other side of the mischief not only have great tools to fight back the acts before the aggressor is an outlaw, but now that ore thief has to put up with being a global target.

Keep in mind, if you already are outlaw and are used to this lifestyle I am not speaking for you - we all know your hardcore principles. I am considering for those who have a mischievous slant but aren't hardcore enough to handle travel restrictions caused by faction navies.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-12-29 17:00:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Doug ... please don't take this as offense ... but you really have no ground to speak for any of us,
unless you start playing like us. You just confuse yourself in details you either don't know enough,
or even nothing, about.

The faction police (i call them police ... it's a habit) aren't an issue. Easily avoidable simply by
bouncing around on grid. Bookmarks are easily made, destroyers align fast enough even in 1.0sec.
Same for cruisers and some battlecruisers.

The problem isn't the game mechanics, but the players. Most don't even know the aggression mechanics
involved ... and i am *not* talking about noobs here. I'm talking about people months or years old.

"How can you fly through highsec without CONCORD shooting you ??"

That's the question i got asked so often, i've started insulting people for it. And i'm not talking about "dozens"
of times ... it's literally hundreds. The faction police is fine, believe me. I rather have it there,
simply because it makes the game more interesting. (removing their ECM ability would be fine, though ^_^)

You will never find me supporting anything that makes the game more easy, so it appeals to more people.
That includes parts of the game only, like the outlaw mechanics. If people can't deal with hard,
then it's their issue ... and only theirs.
Doug Dredd
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-12-29 17:10:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Doug Dredd
Solstice Project wrote:
Doug ... please don't take this as offense ... but you really have no ground to speak for any of us,
unless you start playing like us. You just confuse yourself in details you either don't know enough,
or even nothing, about.

The faction police (i call them police ... it's a habit) aren't an issue. Easily avoidable simply by
bouncing around on grid. Bookmarks are easily made, destroyers align fast enough even in 1.0sec.
Same for cruisers and some battlecruisers.

The problem isn't the game mechanics, but the players. Most don't even know the aggression mechanics
involved ... and i am *not* talking about noobs here. I'm talking about people months or years old.

"How can you fly through highsec without CONCORD shooting you ??"

That's the question i got asked so often, i've started insulting people for it. And i'm not talking about "dozens"
of times ... it's literally hundreds. The faction police is fine, believe me. I rather have it there,
simply because it makes the game more interesting. (removing their ECM ability would be fine, though ^_^)

You will never find me supporting anything that makes the game more easy, so it appeals to more people.
That includes parts of the game only, like the outlaw mechanics. If people can't deal with hard,
then it's their issue ... and only theirs.


No offense taken, but I really don't think that just because you are a low sec pirate that is well experienced with faction police and also is of the mentality that everything needs to made artificially difficult to move around (seriously? making bookmarks in every system just to avoid faction police?) doesn't mean you really should have all the say either.

It's not like I am asking for global targets to be gone or no concord or anything like that, I am asking for AI to not get involved in pvp when it isn't necessary. Security status effects have expanded to more criminal acts and those same criminal acts also carry a much higher risk of pvp, which is awesome. Faction police making general travel more difficult is kind of obsolete now, and frankly kind of gets in the way as a barrier to encourage more of it.

The fact that many don't understand the mechanics (which frankly I am not that bad at, just because I made a slight error doesn't mean I have no clue, really) is not relevant at all to the topic at hand. I really don't see why you had to interject that in there.

Edit: Finally that's fine that you want to keep those artificial difficulties around to prevent the game being 'easier'. I will just have to see what others think now that I understand your position.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#8 - 2012-12-29 17:15:24 UTC
Doug Dredd wrote:
Security status, or lack thereof, can have a big impact on your ability to travel through the EVE universe. Players with sufficiently low security status will be attacked by the empire navies if they enter high security systems.


If only that were true. Do you know how many times I've seen Solstice Project, a guy who wears his -10.0 as a badge of honor, just chilling out near stations in hi-sec?

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#9 - 2012-12-29 17:22:04 UTC
I get a criminal flag everytime I try a new position with my girlfriend in Amarr space! Nerf Crimewatch!

It hasn't even been a month...

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
Doug Dredd
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-12-29 17:23:15 UTC
Tul Breetai wrote:
I get a criminal flag everytime I try a new position with my girlfriend in Amarr space! Nerf Crimewatch!

It hasn't even been a month...


You haven't even read the thread.
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#11 - 2012-12-29 17:27:06 UTC
Doug Dredd wrote:
Tul Breetai wrote:
I get a criminal flag everytime I try a new position with my girlfriend in Amarr space! Nerf Crimewatch!

It hasn't even been a month...


You haven't even read the thread.



I did. You want faction police to hit safety. Because of Crimewatch.

Here, allow me: Crimewatch dun be the reezun everywun can shoot at suspecks nao. Theirfor, dont let the polees shoot at suspecks.

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
Doug Dredd
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-12-29 17:29:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Doug Dredd
Tul Breetai wrote:
Doug Dredd wrote:
Tul Breetai wrote:
I get a criminal flag everytime I try a new position with my girlfriend in Amarr space! Nerf Crimewatch!

It hasn't even been a month...


You haven't even read the thread.



I did. You want faction police to hit safety. Because of Crimewatch.

Here, allow me: Crimewatch dun be the reezun everywun can shoot at suspecks nao. Theirfor, dont let the polees shoot at suspecks.


Is there a reason you think it should stay? Is it like the other poster where you just want artificial difficulties restricting freedom between player interaction? It's not like I am asking for Concord to longer be involved in conflicts or for global flags to be removed.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#13 - 2012-12-29 17:31:15 UTC
Idk, I'm also fine with the current Navy involvement in my hisec travelling. It's pretty logical consequence for commiting crimes in their space, it's my problem and not a fault in the system.

Also, I'd rep my sec status if it was a major issue. There's nothing worthwhile to do in noobspace, so the navies hating me in some systems serves to provide some spice to traveling there.

.
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#14 - 2012-12-29 17:33:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tul Breetai
Doug Dredd wrote:


Is there a reason you think it should stay? Is it like the other poster where you just want artificial difficulties restricting freedom between player interaction? It's not like I am asking for Concord to longer be involved in conflicts or for global flags to be removed.


You're asking the wrong questions. Your OP tried and failed to provide reason enough for it to leave. Mechanics are fine. Server load is fine.

Reason for it to stay? RP: Because they're the POLICE. Mechanics: Because there needs to be enough of a consequence that players have to think it through before getting a flag. You gotta remember most systems in eve aren't exactly overpopulated...

EDIT: I should clarify too, two different flags have been discussed in the thread, suspect and criminal. Criminal consequences aren't exactly new, and suspect consequences have been expanded to all players... and that's it. And outlaw is the elephant in the room...

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
Doug Dredd
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-12-29 17:38:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Doug Dredd
Fair enough to the replies.

Current system isn't an issue for me but it was just an idea in my head that I thought I'd share. If it isn't a popular one so be it, can't win them all.

Just seemed to me like it was a barrier that really wasn't necessary considering the other protections in play, especially with the expanding of acts that are influenced by sec status.

Edit: To clarify, the main area I was thinking of were those committing suspect effects, obviously criminal flaggers have experienced little change.
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#16 - 2012-12-29 17:40:20 UTC
Fair enough indeed. But yeah, I like that outlaws still get hit even when no one's around.

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
Thermodynamics
#17 - 2012-12-29 18:11:04 UTC
Um, there's no sec hit for can flipping

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Doug Dredd
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2012-12-29 18:16:18 UTC
Liam Inkuras wrote:
Um, there's no sec hit for can flipping


According to the most recent patch notes, there is now.

Security status
The way that security status penalties are applied for illegal attacks has changed.
The penalty is now applied for any aggressive action that results in a Criminal or Suspect flag at the point that the first action occurs. (Previously a small penalty was applied upon the initial action, and then a larger penalty if the victim was killed without retaliation).
Criminal actions will give a larger penalty than Suspect actions. The penalty is modified based on the security-level of the location, and the difference in security status of the attacker and defender.

For reference suspect flag is given for ore flipping.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-12-29 18:45:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
I am *not* a lowsec pirate. I am a highly experienced highsec suicide ganker.

I don't just *travel* through highsec, i *live* in highsec. That's where the people are !

Again ... you just display that you have no clue about the whole experience,
but you insist on believing that your opinion has any value or that your idea is any good.

It already *is* damn easy. Making it even easier wouldn't do any good. For nobody.
Those incapable to deal with it now, will be incapable of dealing with it later on too.
There is no end for asking to making things easier, for whatever reason,
but people will *always* find a reason, when there isn't always a necessity !


You're a bad troll. GTFO.


Edit: Why the hell are people, who have *no* clue about a matter,
allowed to voice their worthless opinions as if they knew what they're talking about ? o_O
Kogh Ayon
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2012-12-29 18:49:47 UTC
Doug Dredd wrote:
Liam Inkuras wrote:
Um, there's no sec hit for can flipping


According to the most recent patch notes, there is now.

Security status
The way that security status penalties are applied for illegal attacks has changed.
The penalty is now applied for any aggressive action that results in a Criminal or Suspect flag at the point that the first action occurs. (Previously a small penalty was applied upon the initial action, and then a larger penalty if the victim was killed without retaliation).
Criminal actions will give a larger penalty than Suspect actions. The penalty is modified based on the security-level of the location, and the difference in security status of the attacker and defender.

For reference suspect flag is given for ore flipping.


I don't see your reply contains any line that says or implies that "there IS sec hit for can flipping"

Not mean to offensive but seems you have serious problem to understand sentences properly or give a logical response.
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