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Neutral RR during wars?
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Bishop Aidartier
Brotherhood of Wolves
#1 - 2012-12-29 13:58:44 UTC
Hey, it's been a while since I was in a high sec. war - almost 2 years, and last night me and some corp members had our first engagement with our primary war target. Just when the fight got going good, in warps a neutral scimitar and starts shield-repping the lone war target. We ended up losing the fight, where we had a battlecruiser, battleship, and tackle frigate against a lone cruiser Shocked

Anything we can do about this? We want a good fight, but can't afford to throw ISK away on a dude who's doing this.

Thanks in advance, and sorry if this has been beaten to death!
tgl3
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-12-29 14:01:08 UTC
You can shoot the Scimitar if he reps a war target. So shoot it.
Emu Meo
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-12-29 14:14:27 UTC
Exactly, he will become flashing red to everyone if he gives out reps. This is the case whether it is a neutral logi or a logi in your fleet or corp, it will still get a suspect flag and become attackable by everyone without a concord response.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#4 - 2012-12-29 14:23:45 UTC
If he didn't, this is an extension of a known bug relating to structures, and if they continue to use neutral logistics while not getting the suspect flag, (should be flashing yellow, not red), then report them for exploiting, since they are deliberately taking advantage of a bug at that point.

If they did go flashing yellow, then shoot them.
Bishop Aidartier
Brotherhood of Wolves
#5 - 2012-12-29 14:31:19 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
If he didn't, this is an extension of a known bug relating to structures, and if they continue to use neutral logistics while not getting the suspect flag, (should be flashing yellow, not red), then report them for exploiting, since they are deliberately taking advantage of a bug at that point.

If they did go flashing yellow, then shoot them.


Yeah I was waiting for someone to say something like this, I just checked my overview and it's all configured to show the various states, and I had them all stacked properly so one state/tag wasn't covering any of the "more active" ones up. But I am certain this scimitar never had any tags or states on him, and we never got any kind of timer against him, he was just neutral.

Thanks again, and any other input on this is welcome, not sure if anyone else had ran into this!
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
#6 - 2012-12-29 15:10:51 UTC
You don't get a timer against him, he gets a timer that lets him be attacked by anyone and everyone.

Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Sometimes when I post, I look at my sig and wish that I'd follow my own god damned advice.
Valen Enuna
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-12-29 15:33:54 UTC
There was no timer and no flag. We were all legal war targets attacking when one guy brought in his neutral logistics with no consequence. I read a forum post not long ago where the exact same thing happened and when the logi was attacked, Concord came and nuked the aggressors. Even though the logistics was not part of the wardec.

If the flags are usually passed to a neutral logistics by repping a suspect or criminal, that didn't happen in this case. We would have all had PVP and weapons flags and nothing else. PVP and Weapons flags do not make you a target. Only LE, Suspect, and Criminal flags do. Since we did nothing to get a suspect or criminal flag, it was not there to be passed on.

Seems like an overlooked part of crime-watch. Fixed the system against pirates but brought about an exploit in legal wars.

I could be completely wrong and something else is going on here but the guy didn't get a flag for us or anyone else and I cannot find an answer to this anywhere.
Bishop Aidartier
Brotherhood of Wolves
#8 - 2012-12-29 22:35:03 UTC
Just wanted to bump thread as we're still looking for answers before we choose to engage this NPC corp Logi pilot who keeps repping our WT during engagements.

It appears to me that there are no criminal flags (aside from PVP/Weapons Flags - but these aren't important because they don't allow legal engagement) assigned to war targets during an engagement, since fights between war targets are 100% legal (Not even a limited engagement timer!). Therefore, the neutral RR wouldn't become a suspect, or criminal, because he technically isn't assisting in anything illegal - and anyone who engaged would get popped by concord? What?
Bohoba
#9 - 2012-12-29 22:46:07 UTC
Grey Azorria wrote:
You don't get a timer against him, he gets a timer that lets him be attacked by anyone and everyone.



I never have seen it happen this way

#1 if it did it would be pointles to use a nutral to logi rep them I have never seen them flagged

#2 it as far as I know has always been bugged like this thats why everyone uses nute reps in wars


ccp seems to think this is working as intended as they have not fixed it yet . been what 5 or 6 years like this now :)
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
#10 - 2012-12-29 23:24:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Azorria
Read the patch notes bro, they re-worked the whole crimewatch aggression thing in Retribution, effectively killing neutral RR in the process (and about bloody time).

Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Sometimes when I post, I look at my sig and wish that I'd follow my own god damned advice.
Maggie Evenstar
Unoriginal Corporation
#11 - 2012-12-29 23:31:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Maggie Evenstar
Grey Azorria wrote:
Read the patch notes bro, they re-worked the whole crimewatch aggression thing in Retribution, effectively killing neutral RR in the process (and about bloody time).


This was not apparent at all in the engagement. There was no indication of this in the Overview or in local. The target appeared neutral through the whole engagement. Am I missing something?

I was really looking forward to a little corp war but this situation is just ridiculous.

Could a DEV please clarify for us?
Sirinda
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
#12 - 2012-12-29 23:37:28 UTC
Bishop Aidartier wrote:
Just wanted to bump thread as we're still looking for answers before we choose to engage this NPC corp Logi pilot who keeps repping our WT during engagements.

It appears to me that there are no criminal flags (aside from PVP/Weapons Flags - but these aren't important because they don't allow legal engagement) assigned to war targets during an engagement, since fights between war targets are 100% legal (Not even a limited engagement timer!). Therefore, the neutral RR wouldn't become a suspect, or criminal, because he technically isn't assisting in anything illegal - and anyone who engaged would get popped by concord? What?



Hmm...what would happen if you'd try attacking him with a throwaway alt in a cheapish frigate? Out of fleet, ofc.

Also, you can always petition to clear that up if you haven't, and TBH, by rights that logi should be a valid target once it starts repping.
Rengerel en Distel
#13 - 2012-12-29 23:39:33 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2021506#post2021506
Quote:
Looks like I forgot to include the other, inverse rule, which goes something like this:
Assisting a non-corp/alliance/miliitia-mate with a PVP flag would get you a Suspect flag
Again, this one is still under discussion


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2212793#post2212793
Quote:
2) This has been modified: Assisting a non-corpmate with a PVP flag who is at war will get you a Suspect flag


Can't find anything after that saying it was changed back, so the best bet would be to file a bug report and a petition.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
#14 - 2012-12-29 23:46:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Azorria
Quick test.

Have a friend / alt steal from a can - any can - and check what they look like in your overview and in local. They should have a yellow flashy icon and be flashy yellow in your overview, if not then your overview settings are borked.

Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Sometimes when I post, I look at my sig and wish that I'd follow my own god damned advice.
Thar Saal
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-12-30 01:38:14 UTC
im presently in a war or three and I can confirm nuet rr is still working as it has been used on us for about 2 weeks now
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#16 - 2012-12-30 02:03:05 UTC
everyone seeing neutral RR not get flagged report bugs - per that CCP MasterPlan post saying that they should be getting flagged

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Chris Camcer
Dislocation Corporation
#17 - 2012-12-31 17:28:28 UTC
Confirmed broken, sat shooting a navy omen war target with 4 logistic ships reping him. None of them went suspect and could not break his armor. Couldn't do anything to prevent it.

This bug was caught and fixed on the test server before release, but the bug made it on to TQ?

See: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=170430