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Null is Broken, Hisec working as intended.

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#241 - 2012-12-28 21:18:20 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
You see, there is a point where accusations of entitlement lose their bite. For me it's somewhere around the place where not liking a proposal which is designed to introduce bad gameplay for an area you don't like is "entitlement." You see a need for greater income disparity between sec statuses? Fine, really does make sense. Seriously. Want to turn an area of the game into a punishment? Not so much. Do you have an actual argument as to why it's a good thing or is that just an old fallback?

Why should you get the best stuff for free?

How would greater income disparity in trade be for free?

I'm referring to the fact that you can get 100% refining in highsec for nothing other than doing some missions and training a few skills, not to mention you have TONS more manufacturing slots.

It's only fair that you'd have to pay something to use such services.


This is to imply you cannot gain access to that same measure. The only thing that would be stopping you would be a security status, and even then, you still could.

That's the cool part of highsec; it doesn't belong to players.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#242 - 2012-12-28 21:21:14 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:

That's the cool part of highsec; it doesn't belong to players.


This is the cool part of EVE Now? Lack of player involvement and initiative is awesome? A static world is awesome? The only time a static world is awesome is when you're a farming alt. Oh wait, that's right, you are farming.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#243 - 2012-12-28 21:23:24 UTC
highsec industry is balanced because everyone can jump their ore to highsec for reprocessing instead of using their own space they maintain and defend
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#244 - 2012-12-28 21:25:54 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
highsec industry is balanced because everyone can jump their ore to highsec for reprocessing instead of using their own space they maintain and defend


People who own their own space are just evil miner bumping griefers anyway who's stated goal is to force everyone into 24/7 CTAs.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#245 - 2012-12-28 21:30:15 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:

That's the cool part of highsec; it doesn't belong to players.


This is the cool part of EVE Now? Lack of player involvement and initiative is awesome? A static world is awesome? The only time a static world is awesome is when you're a farming alt. Oh wait, that's right, you are farming.



Yes, because of the fact highsec is npc controlled, you have griefers, gankers, thieves, scammers, pyramid schemes, trades, a whole plethora of color and market options and player options at your disposal.

Because it's npc controlled. Because it is highsec. Everything else is so much more limited.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#246 - 2012-12-28 21:31:01 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:

That's the cool part of highsec; it doesn't belong to players.


This is the cool part of EVE Now? Lack of player involvement and initiative is awesome? A static world is awesome? The only time a static world is awesome is when you're a farming alt. Oh wait, that's right, you are farming.



Yes, because of the fact highsec is npc controlled, you have griefers, gankers, thieves, scammers, pyramid schemes, trades, a whole plethora of color and market options and player options at your disposal.

Because it's npc controlled. Because it is highsec. Everything else is so much more limited.


Oh my, now lo and nullsec are the places that are limited. Tell me more.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#247 - 2012-12-28 21:35:13 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:

That's the cool part of highsec; it doesn't belong to players.


This is the cool part of EVE Now? Lack of player involvement and initiative is awesome? A static world is awesome? The only time a static world is awesome is when you're a farming alt. Oh wait, that's right, you are farming.



Yes, because of the fact highsec is npc controlled, you have griefers, gankers, thieves, scammers, pyramid schemes, trades, a whole plethora of color and market options and player options at your disposal.

Because it's npc controlled. Because it is highsec. Everything else is so much more limited.


Oh my, now lo and nullsec are the places that are limited. Tell me more.



Don't make other places so undesirable. You have the control and power to regulate how things are, yet you want to have gatecamps, and massive roams and control over areas to NOT have people enter at the cost of their ships.

You made it undesirable, and now it is. Wah wah wah.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#248 - 2012-12-28 21:37:00 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:

That's the cool part of highsec; it doesn't belong to players.


This is the cool part of EVE Now? Lack of player involvement and initiative is awesome? A static world is awesome? The only time a static world is awesome is when you're a farming alt. Oh wait, that's right, you are farming.



Yes, because of the fact highsec is npc controlled, you have griefers, gankers, thieves, scammers, pyramid schemes, trades, a whole plethora of color and market options and player options at your disposal.

Because it's npc controlled. Because it is highsec. Everything else is so much more limited.


Oh my, now lo and nullsec are the places that are limited. Tell me more.



Don't make other places so undesirable. You have the control and power to regulate how things are, yet you want to have gatecamps, and massive roams and control over areas to NOT have people enter at the cost of their ships.

You made it undesirable, and now it is. Wah wah wah.


So you want an alliance to go through the expense and work of maintaining a functioning infrastructure, keeping it safe from enemy invaders, and freeporting all the bases? And they have to let you act like an antisocial animal just because you are there? Does that make sense?

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#249 - 2012-12-28 21:42:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Highsec should have greater rewards then 0.0 and lowsec, because competition over resources and player initiative should be punished by game mechanics. Players that PvP in a PvP-based game setting are also morally obliged to support and defend neutrals who selfishly refuse to contribute or learn how to play the game effectively.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#250 - 2012-12-28 21:43:38 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
So you want an alliance to go through the expense and work of maintaining a functioning infrastructure, keeping it safe from enemy invaders, and freeporting all the bases? And they have to let you act like an antisocial animal just because you are there? Does that make sense?



I don't "want" anything. When I get destroyed going through TEST space getting stuck in a bubble, I move on and try to not get stuck in it again. It's TEST's space, they wanted the bubble there, they put it there. I move on.

I don't act like an antisocial animal, that's the point. When I see people in local, I wave as I'm passing through. When I went through in a venture, someone at a gate camp mentioned not being able to catch me, I replied I wasn't worth much and was passing through, then said bye as I left.

The point is, when I am in someone else's space, I take a chance. I accept it, I move on.

If an alliance wants to be NBSI and blows away everything that moves not blue, that's their fault, not mine. Doesn't matter if I'm in my little corner of NPC Null, or in highsec near Dodixie, or if I'm roaming in lowsec around Schoorasana. It all applies the same; you choose how you want your environment to be.

The rest is just whining.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#251 - 2012-12-28 21:55:06 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Highsec should have greater rewards then 0.0 and lowsec, because competition over resources and player initiative should be punished by game mechanics. Players that PvP in a PvP-based game setting are also morally obliged to support and defend neutrals who selfishly refuse to contribute or learn how to play the game effectively.

It's the network effect at work.

If you just look at what you can do, 0.0 and lowsec are incredible, but that's not where the most people are so they end up being a bit drab compared to their potential.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Luanda Heartbreaker
#252 - 2012-12-28 21:55:38 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Highsec should have greater rewards then 0.0 and lowsec, because competition over resources and player initiative should be punished by game mechanics. Players that PvP in a PvP-based game setting are also morally obliged to support and defend neutrals who selfishly refuse to contribute or learn how to play the game effectively.


omg. u should be banned. how old u are? 2? 3? selfish in a game? so i have to be ur slave to not be selfish? of a free target to make u happy? get a life little geek, world is not up for u
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#253 - 2012-12-28 21:57:28 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
So you want an alliance to go through the expense and work of maintaining a functioning infrastructure, keeping it safe from enemy invaders, and freeporting all the bases? And they have to let you act like an antisocial animal just because you are there? Does that make sense?



I don't "want" anything. When I get destroyed going through TEST space getting stuck in a bubble, I move on and try to not get stuck in it again. It's TEST's space, they wanted the bubble there, they put it there. I move on.

I don't act like an antisocial animal, that's the point. When I see people in local, I wave as I'm passing through. When I went through in a venture, someone at a gate camp mentioned not being able to catch me, I replied I wasn't worth much and was passing through, then said bye as I left.

The point is, when I am in someone else's space, I take a chance. I accept it, I move on.

If an alliance wants to be NBSI and blows away everything that moves not blue, that's their fault, not mine. Doesn't matter if I'm in my little corner of NPC Null, or in highsec near Dodixie, or if I'm roaming in lowsec around Schoorasana. It all applies the same; you choose how you want your environment to be.

The rest is just whining.


Your venture could be an enemy spy, scout, or have a cyno.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#254 - 2012-12-28 22:04:59 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Murk Paradox wrote:
This is to imply you cannot gain access to that same measure. The only thing that would be stopping you would be a security status, and even then, you still could.

That's the cool part of highsec; it doesn't belong to players.

So you admit then that people have moved to highsec to do industry for their null alliances because industry is better there.
Why then would people who do industry for their null alliances not move to nullsec to do industry once it's better there?

It's easier and safer to move materials around nullsec (mainly having to do with jump freighter mechanics) than it is to move them from nullsec to highsec and back again, as well.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#255 - 2012-12-28 22:38:24 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
This is to imply you cannot gain access to that same measure. The only thing that would be stopping you would be a security status, and even then, you still could.

That's the cool part of highsec; it doesn't belong to players.

So you admit then that people have moved to highsec to do industry for their null alliances because industry is better there.
Why then would people who do industry for their null alliances not move to nullsec to do industry once it's better there?

It's easier and safer to move materials around nullsec (mainly having to do with jump freighter mechanics) than it is to move them from nullsec to highsec and back again, as well.



Because Null is not Highsec. Pros and cons. Unbalanced. As intended. And yes, it IS easier to move stuff in sov null because a lot of the bigger blocs do in fact come to highsec.. and they, omigosh, gank.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#256 - 2012-12-28 22:39:21 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
So you want an alliance to go through the expense and work of maintaining a functioning infrastructure, keeping it safe from enemy invaders, and freeporting all the bases? And they have to let you act like an antisocial animal just because you are there? Does that make sense?



I don't "want" anything. When I get destroyed going through TEST space getting stuck in a bubble, I move on and try to not get stuck in it again. It's TEST's space, they wanted the bubble there, they put it there. I move on.

I don't act like an antisocial animal, that's the point. When I see people in local, I wave as I'm passing through. When I went through in a venture, someone at a gate camp mentioned not being able to catch me, I replied I wasn't worth much and was passing through, then said bye as I left.

The point is, when I am in someone else's space, I take a chance. I accept it, I move on.

If an alliance wants to be NBSI and blows away everything that moves not blue, that's their fault, not mine. Doesn't matter if I'm in my little corner of NPC Null, or in highsec near Dodixie, or if I'm roaming in lowsec around Schoorasana. It all applies the same; you choose how you want your environment to be.

The rest is just whining.


Your venture could be an enemy spy, scout, or have a cyno.



Or could be me playing in a frig and moving it deep into npc null (which it was).

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
#257 - 2012-12-28 22:44:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Peter Raptor
True enough, even if nullsec industry were buffed, the materials would still have to be brought to hisec to sell, few are going to venture to null sec to buy stuff, moving stuff to hisec is risky and would result in killmails , now thats fine, but if hisec is nerfed to the ground, then all those extra killmails will result in a depressed economy, all is really balanced now,

And these nullsec alts in hisec that people are talking about, if it finances their fun in nullsec, then its all good. Don't fix stuff that works.

Evelopedia; 

The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion  †  
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#258 - 2012-12-28 23:06:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Murk Paradox wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
So you want an alliance to go through the expense and work of maintaining a functioning infrastructure, keeping it safe from enemy invaders, and freeporting all the bases? And they have to let you act like an antisocial animal just because you are there? Does that make sense?



I don't "want" anything. When I get destroyed going through TEST space getting stuck in a bubble, I move on and try to not get stuck in it again. It's TEST's space, they wanted the bubble there, they put it there. I move on.

I don't act like an antisocial animal, that's the point. When I see people in local, I wave as I'm passing through. When I went through in a venture, someone at a gate camp mentioned not being able to catch me, I replied I wasn't worth much and was passing through, then said bye as I left.

The point is, when I am in someone else's space, I take a chance. I accept it, I move on.

If an alliance wants to be NBSI and blows away everything that moves not blue, that's their fault, not mine. Doesn't matter if I'm in my little corner of NPC Null, or in highsec near Dodixie, or if I'm roaming in lowsec around Schoorasana. It all applies the same; you choose how you want your environment to be.

The rest is just whining.

Your venture could be an enemy spy, scout, or have a cyno.

Or could be me playing in a frig and moving it deep into npc null (which it was)

Who knows, you might be a PL alt, and there's titans in them there hills

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#259 - 2012-12-28 23:16:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Peter Raptor wrote:
True enough, even if nullsec industry were buffed, the materials would still have to be brought to hisec to sell
Nullsec is the end consumer of the vast majority of materials in the game, even with its smaller population. What would happen is that with proper secondary economic support in nullsec, tertiary economies (retail) would emerge in 0.0. WIth highsec manufacturing fit in order to replenish highsec's level of material consumption (aka ship loss) and not all of New Eden's with space to spare, there would still be a need for highsec markets to facilitate trade for things like region-specific moon goo, faction items (both navy and pirate) and T3 product.

Quote:
few are going to venture to null sec to buy stuff, moving stuff to hisec is risky and would result in killmails , now thats fine, but if hisec is nerfed to the ground, then all those extra killmails will result in a depressed economy, all is really balanced now,
Increased demand would hurt the EVE economy? Quite the opposite. Increased demand for goods means suppliers can command a higher wage.

Quote:
And these nullsec alts in hisec that people are talking about, if it finances their fun in nullsec, then its all good. Don't fix stuff that works.
Nobody but you believes it's good, hth.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#260 - 2012-12-28 23:20:11 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Quote:
And these nullsec alts in hisec that people are talking about, if it finances their fun in nullsec, then its all good. Don't fix stuff that works.
Nobody but you believes it's good, hth.

Everyone agrees you must never try to nerf highsec, it's perfectly fine.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?