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Dreads vs Carriers
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Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#21 - 2012-12-28 15:51:36 UTC
Once you have a carrier at your disposal then a lot of the nullsec game will open up for you. Not only do they have the longest jump ranges in the game but they benefit hugely from the 10,000 m3 corp hanger bay and the 1,000,000 m3 ship hanger.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#22 - 2012-12-28 16:12:50 UTC
The mighty Dread was perhaps one of the first true prenerfs. The carrier is useful even if you never triage it. The dread with no siege is just a gimp mobile.
Aranial
Empyrean Warriors
#23 - 2012-12-28 16:17:18 UTC
Most has been said but,

Carriers can assign fighters to people in fleet even if they are offgrid. Those fighters will also warp after a target.

Dreads can also be used as BS blapping ships and do it quite nicely :)
Wulfy Johnson
NorCorp Security
#24 - 2012-12-28 16:42:09 UTC
Well i think i have to refrase a bit..

Was there any discussions in the past regarding why the dread is the only capital without a maintenance bay? and towards why it didnt get one?

Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#25 - 2012-12-28 16:49:09 UTC
A dread is an offensive ship. It's not meant to provide logistical support. Most dreads deploy alongside carriers for re-fits.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#26 - 2012-12-28 16:54:05 UTC
Dreads and carriers are completely different animals.

Dreads are siege engines designed to take on hardened installations, cap heavy fleets, and other hard targets.

Carriers are logistics engines that function both as EVE logistics (healers / remote reps / etc) and real logistics (moving large amounts of ships).

I'd do carrier first, personally.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#27 - 2012-12-28 20:49:36 UTC
Carriers are support & logistics ships, their primary roles are 'carrying' things - mostly other ships and the supplies those ships need, and providing on field repping support and refitting ability to a fleet

Dreads are assault/siege vessels, their only purpose is to do massive DPS to things

Two ships, two seperate roles.

What OP is really saying is 'I want one ship that can do all the things really well' and EVE vessels are not designed with that in mind. The Tech 3's are a possible exception to that, but they are broken.
Wulfy Johnson
NorCorp Security
#28 - 2012-12-28 20:57:19 UTC
Chandaris wrote:
What OP is really saying is 'I want one ship that can do all the things really well'


And you seem to have use for glasses to read with to do things half decent if that was what you got from what OP was saying.Idea
HVAC Repairman
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2012-12-28 20:59:04 UTC
dreads because you can still go BLAP BLAP BLAP BLAP BLAP

suck it tians

Follow me on twitter
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#30 - 2012-12-28 21:03:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Chandaris
Wulfy Johnson wrote:
And you seem to have use for glasses to read with to do things half decent if that was what you got from what OP was saying.Idea


I see,

You are looking for the RP/technical reason.

Well it's quite simple you see, the invertotronix subspace dohicawarpometer required to power the siege guns takes up the space inside the ship that would have been left over for the maintenance bay and hangars.

Happy now?

EDIT Yes there has been discussion of this, dreads used to have drone bays, ccp took those away. they wanted dreads to focus on large gun assault and siege this took away stuff not related to that, ie drone bays.

the dreadnoughts of old did not not carry fighters either.
Romvex
TURN LEFT
#31 - 2012-12-28 21:05:05 UTC
Chandaris wrote:
Wulfy Johnson wrote:
And you seem to have use for glasses to read with to do things half decent if that was what you got from what OP was saying.Idea


I see,

You are looking for the RP/technical reason.

Well it's quite simple you see, the invertotronix subspace dohicawarpometer required to power the siege guns takes up the space inside the ship that would have been left over for the maintenance bay and hangars.

Happy now?

wut? he was asking which one he should train.Straight
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#32 - 2012-12-28 21:07:46 UTC
not in his OP he wasn't.

Which one he should train boils down to what he wants to do:

If you plan on blapping people, killing posses and pocos and capitals and runnig with a dread fleet, train a dread.

If you need to move **** around low/null somewhat safely, run triage or pantheon gangs w/ your friends, train a carrier.
Wulfy Johnson
NorCorp Security
#33 - 2012-12-28 21:46:38 UTC
Thanks, that one was a bit closer to the core of the question..

After playing and moving around a bit in 0.0 the obvious need for some base logistic presents it`s self, and it boils down to only one choice for pew pew.. And thats the carrier due to the maintenance bay for the ability to take the pew pew with me..

But, the dread class is the same sized,mass, jump capable ship but with other skill requirements.

So its more about 1 char, 1 capital to move and live in, and an option between drone OR gunnery advancement.


So back to question i initially asked.. has there been any discussions around this topic earlier in the game?
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#34 - 2012-12-28 21:47:40 UTC
Wulfy Johnson wrote:
Thanks, that one was a bit closer to the core of the question..

After playing and moving around a bit in 0.0 the obvious need for some base logistic presents it`s self, and it boils down to only one choice for pew pew.. And thats the carrier due to the maintenance bay for the ability to take the pew pew with me..

But, the dread class is the same sized,mass, jump capable ship but with other skill requirements.

So its more about 1 char, 1 capital to move and live in, and an option between drone OR gunnery advancement.


So back to question i initially asked.. has there been any discussions around this topic earlier in the game?


I would highly advise against trying to solo pvp in either a dread or a carrier.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#35 - 2012-12-29 09:29:13 UTC
Wulfy Johnson wrote:

So back to question i initially asked.. has there been any discussions around this topic earlier in the game?


Yes.

Now stop asking silly questions.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#36 - 2012-12-29 09:57:55 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Wulfy Johnson wrote:
Thanks, that one was a bit closer to the core of the question..

After playing and moving around a bit in 0.0 the obvious need for some base logistic presents it`s self, and it boils down to only one choice for pew pew.. And thats the carrier due to the maintenance bay for the ability to take the pew pew with me..

But, the dread class is the same sized,mass, jump capable ship but with other skill requirements.

So its more about 1 char, 1 capital to move and live in, and an option between drone OR gunnery advancement.


So back to question i initially asked.. has there been any discussions around this topic earlier in the game?


I would highly advise against trying to solo pvp in either a dread or a carrier.



Why in the world would you give such silly advice?

Come over near Assah and Solo PvP in your new Dread/Carrier any day. The water's fine.


@OP's question, yes there have. And you just saw a rehashing of them ITT.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Frying Doom
#37 - 2012-12-29 10:28:04 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Wulfy Johnson wrote:
Thanks, that one was a bit closer to the core of the question..

After playing and moving around a bit in 0.0 the obvious need for some base logistic presents it`s self, and it boils down to only one choice for pew pew.. And thats the carrier due to the maintenance bay for the ability to take the pew pew with me..

But, the dread class is the same sized,mass, jump capable ship but with other skill requirements.

So its more about 1 char, 1 capital to move and live in, and an option between drone OR gunnery advancement.


So back to question i initially asked.. has there been any discussions around this topic earlier in the game?


I would highly advise against trying to solo pvp in either a dread or a carrier.



Why in the world would you give such silly advice?

Come over near Assah and Solo PvP in your new Dread/Carrier any day. The water's fine.


@OP's question, yes there have. And you just saw a rehashing of them ITT.

Actually best and most annoying use of a carrier I have ever seen was a guy sitting near a gate in a battlecruiser, you attack him next thing a gate flash and an interceptor comes in to web and warp scram you, you keep killing the BC.

Next thing he lights a cyno and drops a carrier on you.

Annoying and funny at the same time Smile

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#38 - 2012-12-29 10:43:59 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

Actually best and most annoying use of a carrier I have ever seen was a guy sitting near a gate in a battlecruiser, you attack him next thing a gate flash and an interceptor comes in to web and warp scram you, you keep killing the BC.

Next thing he lights a cyno and drops a carrier on you.

Annoying and funny at the same time Smile



Best use of a carrier I've seen was using a Chimera to provide reps for a LS gatecamp.

Turned into a wonderful fight. We massacred the gatecamp, but couldn't break the Carrier, so while we were lining up neuts and dreads, another gang came in and we got to fight them off until finally we had some peace and quiet to properly murder the carrier.


Gatecamp in a Carrier erryday.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Wulfy Johnson
NorCorp Security
#39 - 2012-12-29 12:03:00 UTC
I was just looking into the natural skill development, and the general consesus iv gotten so far in this thread as to why the dread dont have maintenance bays is due to it not beeing a logistic ship but a dps boat.

the dread is the natural step up from sub cap in all races due to the weapon systems an personal choices as to what waste skills on, but due to it not beeing able to take with it anything its pretty much a no choice in the capital world unless you already have alts who can carry.

but that beeing said, the skill up for carriers, which is argued to be a logistic ship has drone interfacing V as the stepping stone into the world of capitals, when perhaps logistics V or higher would be the more natural course due to its role?
Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2012-12-29 12:49:54 UTC
Wulfy Johnson wrote:
I was just looking into the natural skill development, and the general consesus iv gotten so far in this thread as to why the dread dont have maintenance bays is due to it not beeing a logistic ship but a dps boat.

the dread is the natural step up from sub cap in all races due to the weapon systems an personal choices as to what waste skills on, but due to it not beeing able to take with it anything its pretty much a no choice in the capital world unless you already have alts who can carry.

but that beeing said, the skill up for carriers, which is argued to be a logistic ship has drone interfacing V as the stepping stone into the world of capitals, when perhaps logistics V or higher would be the more natural course due to its role?


If this is the character thatt you plan on doing it with, you are no where near ready with a 2012 character.
I would advise more modest goals in the medium term.

Riedle
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