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How valuable was the capsule to the Jove?

First post
Author
Da Dom
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-12-28 10:39:36 UTC
Why do you think they would give the empires such advanced technology?

Because Far-que... That's why.

CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2 - 2012-12-28 11:03:55 UTC
Because they're up to something, probably.

EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative ※ EVE Illuminati ※ Fiction Adept

@CCP_Eterne ※ @EVE_LiveEvents

Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-12-28 14:15:00 UTC
There has been talk in the forum lately about if the joves have manipulated the 4 empires to become their test subjects, each of them with a different trait giving them strength...

Now, we know that every jove is something similar to a capsuleer himself, so I'll ask you... What if not only the 4 empires, but WE are being manipulated to reconstruct jovian history until we reach the critical point they are interested in?
What if the introduction of capsuleer tech was what ruined the first jovian empire?
Tavin Aikisen
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#4 - 2012-12-28 15:33:35 UTC
What I find curious is the material gain the Jove immediately acquired by trading the Capsule. They traded it to the Caldari Navy, at the behest of Ishukone Corporation and were given items in return when the capsule was first demonstrated on a Caldari Navy Cruiser.

What did they receive? Was it useful or was it simply a guise. And why the Caldari?

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind

Kalanaja
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-12-28 18:59:37 UTC
Figure in that the Wet Grave chronicle was set not long after the Jovians contacted the Caldari. And time stamped 120 years after the meeting, call it altogether 125 years in total between Jovian contact and current YC date. The Jovians would have already been dealing with the sickness for one. Perhaps what the Caldari gave them was a variety of genetic materials? Or maybe various drug substances or even what possibly could have been a cure for the sickness itself.
Cynthia Gallente
GERAS INDUSTRIES
#6 - 2012-12-28 19:07:24 UTC
CCP Eterne wrote:
Because they're up to something, probably.

i agree, they are probably up to something.

Post with your lick™

Cynthia Gallente
GERAS INDUSTRIES
#7 - 2012-12-28 19:08:51 UTC
Kalanaja wrote:
Figure in that the Wet Grave chronicle was set not long after the Jovians contacted the Caldari. And time stamped 120 years after the meeting, call it altogether 125 years in total between Jovian contact and current YC date. The Jovians would have already been dealing with the sickness for one. Perhaps what the Caldari gave them was a variety of genetic materials? Or maybe various drug substances or even what possibly could have been a cure for the sickness itself.

from what i understand the capsule was designed for and by the joves.
their capsuleers are a different caliber than the rest of the empire's pod pilots.
they didn't suffering from wetgraving because the were able to properly use the capsule.

Post with your lick™

Kalanaja
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-12-28 20:06:04 UTC
Cynthia Gallente wrote:
Kalanaja wrote:
Figure in that the Wet Grave chronicle was set not long after the Jovians contacted the Caldari. And time stamped 120 years after the meeting, call it altogether 125 years in total between Jovian contact and current YC date. The Jovians would have already been dealing with the sickness for one. Perhaps what the Caldari gave them was a variety of genetic materials? Or maybe various drug substances or even what possibly could have been a cure for the sickness itself.

from what i understand the capsule was designed for and by the joves.
their capsuleers are a different caliber than the rest of the empire's pod pilots.
they didn't suffering from wetgraving because the were able to properly use the capsule.




Not exactly true, the Jovians did mention wet graving in the chronicle as a possibility and stated that they had some treatment that while was not a cure would possibly make them semi-functional again. At least able to maybe even feed themselves.

An excerpt- "I have examined him, I'm afraid the symptoms all point towards it." Anu was saying.
"This mind-lock as you call it, is it permanent?" captain Ouriye asked.
"I'm afraid so. We have studied it thoroughly and found no cure. It's a shame, if I may say so."
"But how do you prevent it in the first place? I mean, was this bound to happen?" the captain enquired.

From Wet Grave-CCP
Tavin Aikisen
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#9 - 2012-12-29 00:23:03 UTC
Kalanaja wrote:
Perhaps what the Caldari gave them was a variety of genetic materials? Or maybe various drug substances or even what possibly could have been a cure for the sickness itself.


Caldari test tube children operations would still be in full-swing back then. Perhaps they did.

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind

Da Dom
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-12-29 09:51:59 UTC
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
There has been talk in the forum lately about if the joves have manipulated the 4 empires to become their test subjects, each of them with a different trait giving them strength...

Now, we know that every jove is something similar to a capsuleer himself, so I'll ask you... What if not only the 4 empires, but WE are being manipulated to reconstruct jovian history until we reach the critical point they are interested in?
What if the introduction of capsuleer tech was what ruined the first jovian empire?


Interesting, I didn't think the Jovians would drag everyone down with them.

Perhaps they're trying to make empire clones compatible with Jovian conciousness.

This still doesn't explain how valuable the capsule was to the Jove.

Because Far-que... That's why.

Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-12-29 13:50:29 UTC
Da Dom wrote:

Interesting, I didn't think the Jovians would drag everyone down with them.

Perhaps they're trying to make empire clones compatible with Jovian conciousness.

This still doesn't explain how valuable the capsule was to the Jove.


If the theory I exposed happened to be correct, that would mean that the joves wanted to give us the capsule, even if it had to be for free. They even gave CONCORD their tech to police us, which seems faaaar more involvement than anything you could have expected from them in exchange for anything they could have possibly wanted from the Caldari.

So I would say that the capsule is/was some sort of useful but outdated tech of the jovian past, and thus they had no need for it, or maybe even wanted us to use it, as they did in the past.

Also, have you noticed that the capsule has the same plating that Sansha ships use? I find that curious.
Kalanaja
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-12-30 03:02:37 UTC
Also if you notice the Dramiel, Daredevil and the Machariel have kind of the same plating. There is a chronicle that was written awhile back about a planet in nulsec where a chunk of metal was found that was capable of growing or being grown into a form. I don't remember the name of it as it was several years ago and I have not been able to find it again amongst the 100s of other chronicles.
Dex Nederland
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
The Fourth District
#13 - 2012-12-30 06:49:18 UTC
Ever consider that playing the long game and ensuring a balance of power between the upstarts was important to the Jove?

In addition, they likely gain access to a lot of human genetic data, helping them in their search for a cure to their procreation problems.
Da Dom
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-12-30 10:09:05 UTC
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
Da Dom wrote:

Interesting, I didn't think the Jovians would drag everyone down with them.

Perhaps they're trying to make empire clones compatible with Jovian conciousness.

This still doesn't explain how valuable the capsule was to the Jove.


If the theory I exposed happened to be correct, that would mean that the joves wanted to give us the capsule, even if it had to be for free. They even gave CONCORD their tech to police us, which seems faaaar more involvement than anything you could have expected from them in exchange for anything they could have possibly wanted from the Caldari.

So I would say that the capsule is/was some sort of useful but outdated tech of the jovian past, and thus they had no need for it, or maybe even wanted us to use it, as they did in the past.

Also, have you noticed that the capsule has the same plating that Sansha ships use? I find that curious.


Are there any records of the Jove using the capsule for the same type of immortallty we us it for? It would be a good loop-hole to their disease.

If they were serious about exploring their genetic history, then they would re-open the EVE gate.

Because Far-que... That's why.

Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#15 - 2012-12-30 13:34:01 UTC
Da Dom wrote:
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
Da Dom wrote:

Interesting, I didn't think the Jovians would drag everyone down with them.

Perhaps they're trying to make empire clones compatible with Jovian conciousness.

This still doesn't explain how valuable the capsule was to the Jove.


If the theory I exposed happened to be correct, that would mean that the joves wanted to give us the capsule, even if it had to be for free. They even gave CONCORD their tech to police us, which seems faaaar more involvement than anything you could have expected from them in exchange for anything they could have possibly wanted from the Caldari.

So I would say that the capsule is/was some sort of useful but outdated tech of the jovian past, and thus they had no need for it, or maybe even wanted us to use it, as they did in the past.

Also, have you noticed that the capsule has the same plating that Sansha ships use? I find that curious.


Are there any records of the Jove using the capsule for the same type of immortallty we us it for? It would be a good loop-hole to their disease.

If they were serious about exploring their genetic history, then they would re-open the EVE gate.


The Jovian Disease is mental, a severe state of depression, from what i understand. immortality for capsuleers comes from not only a new body but an instantaneous transfer in conciousness. Its unlikely that even if the Jove were to use the capsules the same way that they could overcome the mentally debilitating state the disease would have had on the individuals psyche.

Its also possible that even as advanced as the Jove are the EVE gate is simply irreparable.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb

Kalanaja
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-12-30 19:14:14 UTC
Da Dom wrote:
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
Da Dom wrote:

Interesting, I didn't think the Jovians would drag everyone down with them.

Perhaps they're trying to make empire clones compatible with Jovian conciousness.

This still doesn't explain how valuable the capsule was to the Jove.


If the theory I exposed happened to be correct, that would mean that the joves wanted to give us the capsule, even if it had to be for free. They even gave CONCORD their tech to police us, which seems faaaar more involvement than anything you could have expected from them in exchange for anything they could have possibly wanted from the Caldari.

So I would say that the capsule is/was some sort of useful but outdated tech of the jovian past, and thus they had no need for it, or maybe even wanted us to use it, as they did in the past.

Also, have you noticed that the capsule has the same plating that Sansha ships use? I find that curious.


Are there any records of the Jove using the capsule for the same type of immortallty we us it for? It would be a good loop-hole to their disease.

If they were serious about exploring their genetic history, then they would re-open the EVE gate.



I doubt they would need the capsule anymore. The disease is probably partially caused by their genetic manipulation of themselves in conjunction with cloning. If you look at some of the backstory most of them are clones of clones of clones of clones and so forth. They stopped procreating new people and just started cloning themselves. As it also shows in various stories they don't even need the capsule anymore. They'd be way beyond that with the ability to quantum communicate with the ship. And the EVE gate is a frothing mess of energy particles and spacial dimensions all twisted into a deadly hell. Even getting within a light year of it is liable to annihilate anything.
Asura Twlight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-12-31 09:03:11 UTC
when dealing with a race that has been around for as long as the jovians one must look past simple material gains and look tward what do the jovians need or desire?. what have capsuleers accomplished?

we have managed to map the new eden cluster as well as populate it,something even the jovians have not been able to do. we have managed to venture far into wormhole space and according to concord ( ccp dropbear) have hardly scratched the surface on what is really in there. despite being inferior to the jovians we have managed to mass produce titans and dreads, something the jovians only managed to produce 3 of that we are aware of.

where would our races be without capsuleer tech? we would of warred our self's to near extinction or a single race would of won the war and then looked to the mysterious jovians the most technological advanced race with goals of conquest over them. being unable to reproduce the jovians would of lost the war eventually. so rather than allowing us to wipe our self's our or turn against the jovians they turned us into pawns or tools

also one must consider the fact that with their race being unable to reproduce they must use pawns, give a man a hammer in a quarry and say there are diamonds in the rocks and he will mine and continue to do so,finding ways to improve on just the simple hammer. considering every jovian is more precious than the diamond they would not do it them self's.

they cannot risk them self's on ventures into the dangers of space as if they die they are gone or run the risk of accelerating the disease by cloning them self's bringing them that much closer to extinction

many have pointed to the fact that the jovians and sleepers were in fact closely tied and separated when the jovians began to dive into genetic research. clear evidence of the eve gate emitting radiation ( now much less than it use to be) could of possibly corrupted the dna of the central eve cluster humans to make them useless for their dna research projects directed at curing the jovians disease.
the sleepers disappeared from our galaxy and left to anoikis many many thousands of years ago so their dna may not be as corrupt as ours would be

so we were given the capsule to allow us to expand and gain power, power needed to venture into wormhole space. one can further speculate that they are tracking or receiving data about whatever we do or discover. note that no one has discovered a living sleeper or talocan 2 races that were free of dna manipulation.
the only thing that the jovians desire being a logical race is to ensure their survival, that survival depends on fixing their dna and curing the disease as well as fixing their inability to reproduce.
Asura Twlight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2012-12-31 09:09:18 UTC
sorry got a little distracted with my long winded speech, to answer the posts question in short the capsule was worthless to the jovians but in the facts stated above it was also an invaluable tool of control that without would of ensured the doom of their race
Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2012-12-31 12:30:37 UTC
Asura Twlight wrote:
despite being inferior to the jovians we have managed to mass produce titans and dreads, something the jovians only managed to produce 3 of that we are aware of.


They haven't because they have never needed them.

Asura Twlight wrote:
note that no one has discovered a living sleeper or talocan 2 races that were free of dna manipulation.


Uhh save for the living sleepers that Marcus Jror found and where the Amarr started taking the DUST implants from.
Da Dom
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2012-12-31 13:24:45 UTC
Asura Twlight wrote:
sorry got a little distracted with my long winded speech, to answer the posts question in short the capsule was worthless to the jovians but in the facts stated above it was also an invaluable tool of control that without would of ensured the doom of their race


Nice speech :) You and other posters have brought up the topic of this Jovian disease. I doubt they will ever cure it because their trying to "fix problems" caused this in the first place. Consider this: The Jovians tried to curb their negative energies by "switching off" their aggressive emotions. These negative energies still existed and were forced to seek another negative outlet, such as that of depression. This is why the jovian disease causes sever depression and then death, it overloads the system.

I doubt the capsule was worthless to them. They understood it, but their perfected minds were unable to assertain an adequate solution to its functioning role in the transendence of death. So they gave the capsule to another race more skilled in the art of death, the empires, and observered them as they re-created it into the capsule we see today...

... Then they stole the idea :(

Because Far-que... That's why.

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