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Null is Broken, Hisec working as intended.

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Elrich Kouvo
Doomheim
#181 - 2012-12-28 02:23:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Elrich Kouvo
Katherine Jasmone wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Katherine Jasmone wrote:
STFU, MTFU and look at the game from a perspective of balance.

Yeah, EVE Online is reallu unbalanced as it is.

This must continue in order to keep to a consistent trend. Never nerf highsec ~~


Nope, highsec has its definite imbalances (just in the direction of catering to carebears, macroers and afkers.)
Just make it a stepping stone - and in some regard a pseudo-haven while moving on to greater things.

Hi-sec should in someways provide any area for individuals and corps willing to stage into lo and null to gather enough resources: capitol, labor and other resources. Current null mechanics, industry, politics and PvP-blob mentality are barriers to entry into such areas for most if they never can muster the aforementioned resources to do so.

A thought for perhaps the F&I section - make asteroid belts "hidden" and force those who thrive on this to actually put in the effort to actually find their ore (like miners in the old days who had to collect soil and rock samples) instead of rinse and repeat the method of mining today. Similarly that those who would gank/pirate/ransom/grief would too have to work for their living. Not simply warp-to, ctrl and f1 (mash keys randomly).

But then again why should I agree with an individual in a corp that shelters/lives in an alliance that is in of itself an imbalance due to the blob mentality. When things (mechanics of null, lo or hi and some regards alliances) grow to the point of having their own inertia and this influence can be felt in a detrimental way then the game is in of itself imbalanced.

I was with ya till you compared mining on earth to mining in internet space ships. Soil samples in space? WTF? but yeah they could add more hidden belts to low and null, and they could buff low and null to be more rewarding. Yes High sec corps need to "muster" resources to venture into low/null, which is why they should get rid of war decs.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#182 - 2012-12-28 02:30:07 UTC
I think hi sec needs to be more like real world western democracies where most people are wage slaves.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#183 - 2012-12-28 02:35:10 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
I think hi sec needs to be more like real world western democracies where most people are wage slaves.

So... no real change then?
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#184 - 2012-12-28 02:36:05 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
I think hi sec needs to be more like real world western democracies where most people are wage slaves.

So... no real change then?


No, I think hi seccers should have to file a realistic income tax with realistic tax forms. Also there needs to be rent paid to live in hi sec.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#185 - 2012-12-28 02:37:51 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
I think hi sec needs to be more like real world western democracies where most people are wage slaves.

So... no real change then?


No, I think hi seccers should have to file a realistic income tax with realistic tax forms. Also there needs to be rent paid to live in hi sec.

Ah, so you just hate people and want the game to reflect that. Gotcha.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#186 - 2012-12-28 02:39:53 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
I think hi sec needs to be more like real world western democracies where most people are wage slaves.

So... no real change then?


No, I think hi seccers should have to file a realistic income tax with realistic tax forms. Also there needs to be rent paid to live in hi sec.

Ah, so you just hate people and want the game to reflect that. Gotcha.


They could pay a corporate tax to all the stations they keep stuff in.
Then we can add on a faction tax so you have to pay the empire you live in.
Finally a concord tax.

Maybe we can add a system where you can cheat on your taxes at the risk of a sec status penalty if discovered.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
#187 - 2012-12-28 02:43:58 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
I think hi sec needs to be more like real world western democracies where most people are wage slaves.

So... no real change then?


No, I think hi seccers should have to file a realistic income tax with realistic tax forms. Also there needs to be rent paid to live in hi sec.


whats more realistic than evading tax? its rl feature

if you want me to pay the rent give me some real estate,like corp office but for players to walk in and sjit so i can admire my collection of dancers and garage - it totaly should be a crib,maybe even on a planet ,id pay a rent for that

real estate market is what this game needs,it would be awesome to have house on a lava planet etc.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#188 - 2012-12-28 02:44:33 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
I think hi sec needs to be more like real world western democracies where most people are wage slaves.

So... no real change then?


No, I think hi seccers should have to file a realistic income tax with realistic tax forms. Also there needs to be rent paid to live in hi sec.

Ah, so you just hate people and want the game to reflect that. Gotcha.

Ahhh, more entitlement.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
DSpite Culhach
#189 - 2012-12-28 02:45:53 UTC
What's wrong with just adding more activities to high/low/null, and only having some of those cross over. We already have game content that can only be done with expensive ships and high SP like Incursions, why not add more stuff into the mix?

Wouldn't that be a carrot to get people to move around more? Why do people always want to use the stick to motivate players to do stuff?

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#190 - 2012-12-28 02:47:55 UTC
DSpite Culhach wrote:
What's wrong with just adding more activities to high/low/null, and only having some of those cross over. We already have game content that can only be done with expensive ships and high SP like Incursions, why not add more stuff into the mix?

Wouldn't that be a carrot to get people to move around more? Why do people always want to use the stick to motivate players to do stuff?


The stick is more fun for us Big smile

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#191 - 2012-12-28 02:51:38 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
I think hi sec needs to be more like real world western democracies where most people are wage slaves.

So... no real change then?


No, I think hi seccers should have to file a realistic income tax with realistic tax forms. Also there needs to be rent paid to live in hi sec.

Ah, so you just hate people and want the game to reflect that. Gotcha.

Ahhh, more entitlement.

You see, there is a point where accusations of entitlement lose their bite. For me it's somewhere around the place where not liking a proposal which is designed to introduce bad gameplay for an area you don't like is "entitlement." You see a need for greater income disparity between sec statuses? Fine, really does make sense. Seriously. Want to turn an area of the game into a punishment? Not so much. Do you have an actual argument as to why it's a good thing or is that just an old fallback?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#192 - 2012-12-28 02:54:26 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
You see, there is a point where accusations of entitlement lose their bite. For me it's somewhere around the place where not liking a proposal which is designed to introduce bad gameplay for an area you don't like is "entitlement." You see a need for greater income disparity between sec statuses? Fine, really does make sense. Seriously. Want to turn an area of the game into a punishment? Not so much. Do you have an actual argument as to why it's a good thing or is that just an old fallback?

Why should you get the best stuff for free?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#193 - 2012-12-28 02:56:37 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
You see, there is a point where accusations of entitlement lose their bite. For me it's somewhere around the place where not liking a proposal which is designed to introduce bad gameplay for an area you don't like is "entitlement." You see a need for greater income disparity between sec statuses? Fine, really does make sense. Seriously. Want to turn an area of the game into a punishment? Not so much. Do you have an actual argument as to why it's a good thing or is that just an old fallback?

Why should you get the best stuff for free?

How would greater income disparity in trade be for free?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#194 - 2012-12-28 03:01:05 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
You see, there is a point where accusations of entitlement lose their bite. For me it's somewhere around the place where not liking a proposal which is designed to introduce bad gameplay for an area you don't like is "entitlement." You see a need for greater income disparity between sec statuses? Fine, really does make sense. Seriously. Want to turn an area of the game into a punishment? Not so much. Do you have an actual argument as to why it's a good thing or is that just an old fallback?

Why should you get the best stuff for free?

How would greater income disparity in trade be for free?

I'm referring to the fact that you can get 100% refining in highsec for nothing other than doing some missions and training a few skills, not to mention you have TONS more manufacturing slots.

It's only fair that you'd have to pay something to use such services.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#195 - 2012-12-28 03:02:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Katherine Devonshire
Malcanis wrote:
You and most hi-seccers seem to think sov null is just Turn up, Plant flag, Collect free Technetium & Anomalies. . You're missing the titanic amount of ISK (amd effort) that's required to gain, control, upgrade and maintain space. And that's not even including what it costs to fight for it. Just to claim it costs many billions per region, and then more billions per month to keep it.


Oh no, there is dookey in your end of the sandbox! Shall you hold your nose and scoop it out, or just go and poop on the other side to make it match? Decisions, decisions. Oh wait, we're dealing with the vast web of insecurities & egomania of modern internet culture, so the answer is obvious: More poop for everyone.

"There is no such thing as justice. There is only the desire to see the pain spread around equally."
- Solomon Short

The sound of the Amarrian heart
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#196 - 2012-12-28 03:04:09 UTC
Lady Katherine Devonshire wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
You and most hi-seccers seem to think sov null is just Turn up, Plant flag, Collect free Technetium & Anomalies. . You're missing the titanic amount of ISK (amd effort) that's required to gain, control, upgrade and maintain space. And that's not even including what it costs to fight for it. Just to claim it costs many billions per region, and then more billions per month to keep it.


Oh no, there is dookey in your end of the sandbox! Shall you hold your nose and scoop it out, or just go and poop on the other side to make it match? Decisions, decisions. Oh wait, we're dealing with the vast web insecurities & egomania of modern internet culture, so the answer is obvious: More poop for everyone.

"There is no such thing as justice. There is only the desire to see the pain spread around equally."
- Solomon Short

Yeah, let's respond to sensible arguments with childishness and irrelevant quotes!

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#197 - 2012-12-28 03:04:30 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
You see, there is a point where accusations of entitlement lose their bite. For me it's somewhere around the place where not liking a proposal which is designed to introduce bad gameplay for an area you don't like is "entitlement." You see a need for greater income disparity between sec statuses? Fine, really does make sense. Seriously. Want to turn an area of the game into a punishment? Not so much. Do you have an actual argument as to why it's a good thing or is that just an old fallback?

Why should you get the best stuff for free?

How would greater income disparity in trade be for free?

I'm referring to the fact that you can get 100% refining in highsec for nothing other than doing some missions and training a few skills, not to mention you have TONS more manufacturing slots.

It's only fair that you'd have to pay something to use such services.

I've argued that this shouldn't be the case, so I won't argue in favor of a situation I don't believe is beneficial nor would I like to see it's correction replaced with excess tedium.
Elrich Kouvo
Doomheim
#198 - 2012-12-28 03:07:03 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
I think hi sec needs to be more like real world western democracies where most people are wage slaves.

So... no real change then?


No, I think hi seccers should have to file a realistic income tax with realistic tax forms. Also there needs to be rent paid to live in hi sec.

You sir need to go play turbo tax then and not EVE Online.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#199 - 2012-12-28 03:24:49 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
DSpite Culhach wrote:
What's wrong with just adding more activities to high/low/null, and only having some of those cross over. We already have game content that can only be done with expensive ships and high SP like Incursions, why not add more stuff into the mix?

Wouldn't that be a carrot to get people to move around more? Why do people always want to use the stick to motivate players to do stuff?


The stick is more fun for us Big smile

The tears, eh...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#200 - 2012-12-28 04:12:04 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Yeah, let's respond to sensible arguments with childishness and irrelevant quotes!


The quote was quite relevant, as it was a clear indication of the psychological dysfunction of the common whining nullbear. Childishness is simply my way of lowering the bar of conversation down to their own level of intellect for greater ease of comprehension. Did you enjoy it, or should I go back to being superciliously brusque?

The sound of the Amarrian heart