These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Missions & Complexes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

New AI suxx for PvE. And it's very unfriendly to groups and new players :-(
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Makre
Heodener
#41 - 2012-12-25 16:28:17 UTC
1) The drone aggro is uncool . (im primarily a missile person) But still many missions now have peram drone aggro (t2 lights far better, i cannot even use meds FAR too much aggro). So subpar pvp boats rattles a few others are now also subpar pve boats. (basically more boats not with their construction cost). I am pretty active on rpgs and other gaming sites and when given advice i often told new players Gal is a good bet, Min too (Cal is easy). But now i have to tell them just fly Min you really don't have other options, should it be that way no. NOTE i tell them everything is viable, but people act those questions because they want the best. I have to tell them not to play Gal (works until l3s).
That right there is the state of this build. NOOBs no gal, pve no drones, pvp drones weak also. Thats an issue, by any standard.

I almost always solo, when i play eve, i aint got no friends, id say 5 years ago i did i had a kick grouping. It apparent how this ai is a bad idea. If someone is flying a turd support ship , LET THEM SUPPORT. Tackles or just dps ships LET THEM DPS. Allow effective team play. I mean thsi game is already FAR TOO LITTLE of a group game for the general carebear. Any reason that can be given to increase grouping / multi-play is a good deal... this did the opposite. (i would have increased l5 rewards, increase damage etc. but allowed aggro management. The op has this 100% correct, give people a reason to use dps builds, with a tank and a support or two).
Akuma Tsukai
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#42 - 2012-12-25 23:49:31 UTC
Sir John Halsey wrote:


Fit long range guns, missiles, lasers.
Warp in, kill 1 NPC, bookmark.
When NPCs come close warp out before they start the ewar.
Warp in at a distance close to the range of your guns, kill NPCs, boomark, warp out when NPCs are close.
Repeat.

Works for me on non gated areas and i never used drones and never died in missions.


And yet another moron theory crafter showed up. well "Works for me on non gated areas" is enough of a proof for your idiocity, since many missions are gated. Also, just for you information: NPCs have instant lock. NPC ewar range as long as any of your guns range. Many areas have gates, often multiple ones. Your "solution" will not work even in missions, let alone non mission PVE. And finally, you are an imbecile.
But as i am a kind man, ill give you a good adice: fly caldari missile boats. Then you wont have to warp out 200 times per mission and might even actually complete it for the first time in your life.
Rexorol
Gallentian Legitimate Businessmen
#43 - 2012-12-26 22:34:38 UTC
I was pretty happy having a Tengu tanking, a drone boat alt assisting with sentries, and a third char in a Noctis or Command ship. Very low-stress, and I felt like I was maximizing my profit on each mission, even though the missions themselves weren't that much faster than going alone.

The new AI pretty much screws that up, since my drone bone has to constantly micromanage sentries. My Noctis can't even peek into a mission pocket until everything is cleared or he gets popped.

I already re-skilled my main from a Tengu into a Mach. I am not going to bother with re-skilling my drone and salvager though, and plan on just letting those accounts expire.

So, I will say the new AI was a brilliant move on CCP's part for allowing me to save 66% on my monthly subscription fees. Thanks for showing me I was doing it wrong all these years and should have just been flying a solo Mach all along.
CaiIyn Dove
DMoney Corp
Fraternity.
#44 - 2012-12-26 23:25:34 UTC
Just confirmed that the op has not do any mission with his invisable newbie friends after the patch.

Obviously bringing a cruiser or whatever can effectively save your drones while the newbie can still tank easily.
Sir John Halsey
#45 - 2012-12-27 00:50:01 UTC
Akuma Tsukai wrote:
Sir John Halsey wrote:


Fit long range guns, missiles, lasers.
Warp in, kill 1 NPC, bookmark.
When NPCs come close warp out before they start the ewar.
Warp in at a distance close to the range of your guns, kill NPCs, boomark, warp out when NPCs are close.
Repeat.

Works for me on non gated areas and i never used drones and never died in missions.


And yet another moron theory crafter showed up. well "Works for me on non gated areas" is enough of a proof for your idiocity, since many missions are gated. Also, just for you information: NPCs have instant lock. NPC ewar range as long as any of your guns range. Many areas have gates, often multiple ones. Your "solution" will not work even in missions, let alone non mission PVE. And finally, you are an imbecile.
But as i am a kind man, ill give you a good adice: fly caldari missile boats. Then you wont have to warp out 200 times per mission and might even actually complete it for the first time in your life.


Idiots lacking comprehension ... or missing the skill entirely.

Take it for what it is.
I gave you a hint.
You think you are smart but you expect A to Z solutions ... oh well... sux to be you.
Mario Rin
Independent Planets Military
#46 - 2012-12-27 11:07:24 UTC
Aye.. New ai requires new tactics.. and the new t1 cruisers actually make it worthwhile to fly logi in missions/plexes before you get to flying the tech 2..



1 osprey with 4 medium shields xfers (meta 4) and 1 medium cap xfer(t2), kept a 4 man fleet alive running lvl 4,, a Talos, a drake, and a raven.. plus the osprey.. I did have the drake put a power transfer in his utility high slot, and the raven put one shield rep to keep my osprey from going "Pop" when the room decided it was time to try to kill it..

with a second osprey as a cap buddy it would have gone more smoothly, but we made it work.
Mara Garrdin
Chairman Mao's Landlord Retirement Home
#47 - 2012-12-27 18:40:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Garrdin
Dixi We wrote:
1. PvE games with roles (tank, support, healer and so on) are much more fun.


lolno
go back to WoW (or any of the myriad of ****** fantasy-mmorpgs, for that matter) if you like roles
eve is different, eve is NO PvE-game and eve most certainly doesn't give a ****, so grow a pair and deal with it
Brent Oskold
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2012-12-27 18:51:30 UTC
I lost about 5b running L5 missions after the new expansion. Totally broke me. I even moved down to L4's and lost a freaking dual repped navy domi. My main lost that with 4 years of mission skills. Insane. Needless to say I canceled both my accounts. If ccp wants to punish the pve'ers for not buying into their pvp business model of hemoraging isk and plex to fund new ships, well they can do it without me and my accounts.

**** ccp. See if you can keep the servers running with only pvpers paying you.
Looka Disapproval
Brule Story Co.
#49 - 2012-12-27 23:23:13 UTC
Hearing you guys bleat and wail about how much harder missions have become almost makes me want to fly back down to empire and try some of them out again. They sure weren't even remotely difficult before!
Annunaki soldier
Perkone
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-12-27 23:38:17 UTC
Talon Reese wrote:
Wow, carebear tears abound. Generally, in almost every MMO, you can't do the harder content without some progression first. The new AI makes farming an activity, at least slightly more interesting then warp in, put out sentries, go make sammich, come back in a while and loot. PVE content needs to be somewhat challenging at the higher levels, instead of a mindless semi-afk grind for isk. Personally, I think the newer AI actually encourages teamplay, the only difference is that if you want to bring along new players (that really aren't equipped to deal with the content) along, you have to be more on top of your game and provide them with some help. As opposed to "Hey, warp in now I've got all the aggro" and then then they can run around and shoot/loot with no repercussions. Adapt or ragequit.


The newer ai doest encourage teamplay. It encourage people to either dual box (kills solo) for content that ment to be for solo play (missioning is ) , also makes things.. meh for high end exploration sites. I would prefer to have actually fix the content to work with the new ai first the release it . Patching it can reveal that .. things are not working as intended Blink

Ride hard, live with passion 
Akuma Tsukai
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-12-27 23:48:10 UTC
Looka Disapproval wrote:
Hearing you guys bleat and wail about how much harder missions have become almost makes me want to fly back down to empire and try some of them out again. They sure weren't even remotely difficult before!

They arent harder one bit, they are just infinitely more frustrating. Well and more than half of the ships are now banned from doing them effectively. That is all.
Brent Oskold
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2012-12-28 08:34:48 UTC
They are only harder if you try and run them the same way you always have, but to run them how you have to now is terribly boring. If they want to make them more annoying, fine, but expand the reward. You don't get a promotion at work with more responsibilities and still make the same money. Missions now take longer and are infinitely more annoying but pay the same.

The rats in eve are ****. They do things that no player could do. They instantly lock and fire on you. BS can hit a small drone from 2km. Then with all the ewar and incredible dps/tank they drop ******* meta 0 bullshit. Total cop out fail ai. CCP has been nerfing pve for years. You used to be able to salvage 20-50m isk in a L4 mission. Now ur lucky to get 5m.

Eve just isn't fun anymore for ppl that don't like to pay to play. I recommend everyone to cancel their accounts and tell ccp why. Don't keep playing a game that is garbage. Don't ***** about **** if ur still paying ccp.
Mario Rin
Independent Planets Military
#53 - 2012-12-28 08:44:06 UTC
Brent Oskold wrote:
They are only harder if you try and run them the same way you always have, but to run them how you have to now is terribly boring. If they want to make them more annoying, fine, but expand the reward. You don't get a promotion at work with more responsibilities and still make the same money. Missions now take longer and are infinitely more annoying but pay the same.

The rats in eve are ****. They do things that no player could do. They instantly lock and fire on you. BS can hit a small drone from 2km. Then with all the ewar and incredible dps/tank they drop ******* meta 0 bullshit. Total cop out fail ai. CCP has been nerfing pve for years. You used to be able to salvage 20-50m isk in a L4 mission. Now ur lucky to get 5m.

Eve just isn't fun anymore for ppl that don't like to pay to play. I recommend everyone to cancel their accounts and tell ccp why. Don't keep playing a game that is garbage. Don't ***** about **** if ur still paying ccp.




As I said before, they're not harder, and they don't take significantly longer that I can tell. They DO require you to do them differently, and they do also encourage group play instead of solo.

Also, as far as I can tell, there's much faster ways to make isk in pve content.


Missions seem to me to be a way to raise standings with a corp, gain some LP, and socialize with some friends..


Fastest non incursion isk I've made was in north provi NRDS space running plexes..
whaynethepain
#54 - 2012-12-29 03:12:54 UTC
The entire issue is because the carrier cannot lock enough targets. If a carrier could pre-lock all it's fighters, reps could be applied during damage. I would like my carrier to lock 20 targets I think.

Getting you on your feet.

So you've further to fall.
Annunaki soldier
Perkone
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-12-29 03:47:06 UTC
Mario Rin wrote:
Brent Oskold wrote:
They are only harder if you try and run them the same way you always have, but to run them how you have to now is terribly boring. If they want to make them more annoying, fine, but expand the reward. You don't get a promotion at work with more responsibilities and still make the same money. Missions now take longer and are infinitely more annoying but pay the same.

The rats in eve are ****. They do things that no player could do. They instantly lock and fire on you. BS can hit a small drone from 2km. Then with all the ewar and incredible dps/tank they drop ******* meta 0 bullshit. Total cop out fail ai. CCP has been nerfing pve for years. You used to be able to salvage 20-50m isk in a L4 mission. Now ur lucky to get 5m.

Eve just isn't fun anymore for ppl that don't like to pay to play. I recommend everyone to cancel their accounts and tell ccp why. Don't keep playing a game that is garbage. Don't ***** about **** if ur still paying ccp.




As I said before, they're not harder, and they don't take significantly longer that I can tell. They DO require you to do them differently, and they do also encourage group play instead of solo.

Also, as far as I can tell, there's much faster ways to make isk in pve content.


Missions seem to me to be a way to raise standings with a corp, gain some LP, and socialize with some friends..


Fastest non incursion isk I've made was in north provi NRDS space running plexes..


If you want to be socialising and be on pve there is something called incursions. There are some great people running them and for sure you may be just shooting red crosses , but teamspeak pays for the fun.

Missions are for solo gameplay. Thats why they have crap rewards. You do em when you want to be doing something by yourself.

Its not all about making isk/hour you know. If you really all into that then nothing in game can compare with market trading in profits. But as all things are content , they also ment to be satisfy the people searching for it. For drone lovers that content really lost its attractiveness


Ride hard, live with passion 
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#56 - 2012-12-29 04:46:38 UTC
Level 4s aren't really new player content, in fact they are the highest level mission most people will ever take on.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Darius Brinn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2013-01-02 12:12:36 UTC
Brent Oskold wrote:
I lost about 5b running L5 missions after the new expansion. Totally broke me. I even moved down to L4's and lost a freaking dual repped navy domi. My main lost that with 4 years of mission skills. Insane. Needless to say I canceled both my accounts. If ccp wants to punish the pve'ers for not buying into their pvp business model of hemoraging isk and plex to fund new ships, well they can do it without me and my accounts.

**** ccp. See if you can keep the servers running with only pvpers paying you.


How, in the name of Zeus' ****hole, did you manage to lose a dual repped Navy Dominix with 4 years of navy skills?

Yes, drones get targeted, alright. But the only real problem is losing your small drones and being unable to warp away if you need to.

So you pop frigates first (which Garde II's do nicely from 25-30km and further, and any Sentries beyond that) and release the Lights if you get pointed. Micromanage them, and you don't lose them.

I have not lost a single freaking drone since the AI change. Not one. And I fly them solo. If they start dropping beyond half shield, you call them back and that's it.

Missions take a bit more time now, but talking about cancelling accounts?

Dude, the era of releasing the Ogres and coming back later is over, but that's about it.
Grombutz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2013-01-02 12:50:41 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Level 4s aren't really new player content, in fact they are the highest level mission most people will ever take on.


Another failposting, yay.

Lv4's are solo content, and making it more annoying (let's face it, that is ALL this change has done) won't give better results. Not for CCP, not for PvE-players and especially not for PvP-Players.

In addition, lv4's aren't the highest mission most people will ever take on because they are hard. It's because they are the highest missions in Highsec, and this won't change till Lv5's are back in highsec or missionboats become viable in PvP. With CCP beeing a bunch of devs out of touch and with no clue about marketing at all, this fact will never change, because servers will shut down before they do even consider. :D
Lutin Ballista
Ballista Investment Corp
#59 - 2013-01-02 12:51:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Lutin Ballista
Rain6637 wrote:
stop. older players need to tell new pilots how it is. if level 4 missions were easier, they'd be called level 3's.

I don't feel bad for new players attempting to pilot battleships or run level 4's. I stayed in cormorants and ran level 1 and 2 missions for two years because my corp told me to. there is such a thing as "old school."

to me, level 4 missions were the realm of gods for almost 3 years. respect them.

I carry the logi capability to keep newb pilots alive. ...2 month old mega pilots fitted with rails and 1 missile launcher, and full room aggro. If you will allow them in your fleet, you should be able to handle the rep burden.


100% agree. If a little minnow wants to play with the big fish he has to expect to be eaten or needs to have bigger fish to look after him.

Darius Brinn wrote:

How, in the name of Zeus' ****hole, did you manage to lose a dual repped Navy Dominix with 4 years of navy skills?
.


I'm glad you asked that. Saved me from doing it.

I have less than a years skills and I'm doing lvl 4's using a drone boat no problem. I love my rattlesnake. Losing a few low value drones is nothing compared to the mission pay off.

I also like salvager drones. pop all the npcs and send the little bad boys to collect the junk :)
Cyrvys en Distel
Doomheim
#60 - 2013-01-02 21:27:41 UTC
Ra Jackson wrote:
What is this drivel about Newbs in lvl4 missions? They are not supposed to run them, and if they do it's just reasonable to ask for proper logistics to keep them alive.
Real Newbs should start at lvl1, earn their first cruiser alone, and so on. If you blow the ISK up their behinds you take a good part of the excitement and the essential first experiences away.


And once you take those essential experiences away, every time a fairly easy-to-adapt to change comes around, they will be up in arms about how this one single thing is what is going to completely destroy the entire game :P