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Widow: Questions
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Ultra Yeti
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-12-27 04:02:20 UTC
Well as somebody who intends to go straight into PvP once I have aqquired and amassed what I need to, to be able to do such at a proficent rate, I have had a few questions cross my mind during the time of planning for the item.

First, I have already gotten saved all of the materials I would need (along with skills to train and such) to aqquire a Widow without the need of purchasing it off the market at the, in at least my opinion, overly drastic price of 670-800 mil ISK, but I have a multitude of questions springing to mind about the ship.


1.) What type of tanking should I expect with the ship, and specifically at what range should I be handling it when I want to attack

2.) When it comes to fitting a Widow, what is the best course of action towards fitting?

3.) How well does a Widow do in a Mass PvP situation, a one on one PvP situation and in a 1 vs multiple PvP Situation?

4.) I tend to like being solo, in a personal respect towards avoidance of the...for lack of a better word...numbskulls (attempting to avoid some more..profound words that I could list off on these people), so how well off could I be while piloting my Widow.




Those are the top 4 on my mind currently, and I will probably add more as time goes along. Maybe to eventually make a guide for myself and friends on how a PvP area with the Widow is xD. (I got a few friends interested in it because of the known jamming and warping abilities)
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-12-27 04:29:14 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
It's fat, it's slow, it's expensive, it's an ecm boat, and you're going to fly it solo. It will die in fire.

It doesn't solo, and it doesn't "mass pvp." It bridges in stuff and slinks out of the way.

Your best course of action is build it, sell it, and use the isk to get some falcons, then find some ppl to fly with.
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#3 - 2012-12-27 04:51:17 UTC
Really the only good thing you can do with it is ganking people in low and null but to do that you'll need a recon to light a covops cyno for you
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-12-27 04:59:12 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
It's fat, it's slow, it's expensive, it's an ecm boat, and you're going to fly it solo. It will die in fire.




sadly this...widow is a gang blops. Redeemer is more your potential soloist blops.

You'd be running torps for a gank widow. lol cruise...not going there.


Your tank will be armour. Its the only way you can run a rainbow plus a mulit-spec or 2 as a catch all.

Unless....you run officer ecm. Vivicide iirc ran widows to good effect in the past. Their fit was shield based. And ran officer multispecs. they are a few points weaker than racials so pretty damn good at jamming for a multispec. But they aren't cheap.
Denuo Secus
#5 - 2012-12-27 06:39:38 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:

Your tank will be armour. Its the only way you can run a rainbow plus a mulit-spec or 2 as a catch all.


I don't think it's a must to fit rainbow ECM. A single or two ECM will nullify some incoming DPS just fine. Question is which ECM to choose ofc. I read about single ECM Tengus which work nice. If someone really want to use this ship solo a single ECM will almost never be 'off-race' since it will end up 1 vs many anyhow. But even when rainbow fitted a Widow wouldn't be able to jam all targets. So some kind of tank + damage is needed.

Even more crazy: the Widow has 8 med slots. One could do a lot of stuff with it. Other forms of ewar, dual web without gimping the tank, dual prop, TPs...MJD. Or just a massive tank. That way the Widow would simply become a cloaky Raven.

I do not pretend it would be wise to fly a Widow solo, but I guess MJDs would help here. Also moment of surprise by doing something unexpected. Rainbow, armor fit Widow is pure fleet support imho. Fitted that way it just doesn't have tank and damage enough for front line duties.
Thomas Gore
Blackfyre Enterprise
#6 - 2012-12-27 07:16:04 UTC
You guys are obviously missing the point of this thread. OP wants to be Vic Laguna.
Ultra Yeti
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-12-27 07:20:19 UTC
Thomas Gore wrote:
You guys are obviously missing the point of this thread. OP wants to be Vic Laguna.



Lol, I wanted to fly a widow long before they released the video about him. Long, long before x3.


As for all of the other posts, a link would help me out a bit when it comes to what all the short-hand ya'll are using means. I haven't been active in quiet some time, so I don't know all of the terms that have been produced or made since my last play (which was somewhere around 2010 or 2011).


But from what I have read so far, if I want to fly a solo Widow I would need to have a very unquie, almost completely out of the blue, fitting on it.
DerArt1st
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-12-27 08:45:01 UTC  |  Edited by: DerArt1st
Ultra Yeti wrote:
Well as somebody who intends to go straight into PvP once I have aqquired and amassed what I need to


You only need a warpscram and a frigate to participate in pvp. "Going straight" (aka clueless) into pvp with that ship is a recipe for a disaster. I suggest that you start with frigates or cruisers to get an idea what you can do and what not and then think about another ship. A blackops is more for experienced pilots and mostly used only for transporting bombers to their targets.
Aptenodytes
Reckless Abandon
#9 - 2012-12-27 11:15:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Aptenodytes
Ultra Yeti wrote:
But from what I have read so far, if I want to fly a solo Widow I would need to have a very unquie, almost completely out of the blue, fitting on it.

Umm, not really. There is no fitting that can make a Widow a successful solo PVP boat. As stated above you should buil;d the Widow, sell it, and buy 30 T1 frigagtes, 30 T1 destroyers and 30 T1 cruisers. Do not even consider flying anything bigger into PVP until they are all dead.
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-12-27 12:41:10 UTC
1 v Multiple? What an expensive casket you have there.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
leoplusma
Delfus Inc.
#11 - 2012-12-27 12:49:42 UTC  |  Edited by: leoplusma
Ultra Yeti wrote:
widow blah blah pvp


well... Widow is a black op. Which means its purpose in game is different than what you want.

However... how many ships in eve are intended for something, yet they are used in a different manner? A LOT.

if you really want to use a Widow for solo pvp, you need to understand its benefits and ofc, its drawbacks.

Widow is based in Scorpion hull, yet its name reminds as of a spider.
No matter what, you need to think yourself as a fragile insect LOL
which can be deadly when choose victims carefully and attack FAST.

imagine:
you are in a widow and you jump into low sec.
then you warp into a belt and stay cloaked,
or you warp to a safe point, deploy probes, cloak, scan.

sooner or later you will see yourself cloaked
in the same room with a large ship who
does ratting or plays a mission alone
and most important of all, your victim doesnt
know you are in the same room.

you start moving close to him and when you
guess time is right you show up like surprise,
lock, tp, throw t2 torps, loot the wreck, cloak.
and if you are fast enough you wont even been locked
by noone not even npc.

you need to understand than tanking in a black op
is MOSTLY done by NOT being locked :)
also you need your enemy to be already engaged in some battle
so he is already receiving damage. you need that because
you want to destroy the ship asap. unless you will attack a mining
barge, which you can pop instantly in most cases.

but lets face it. the ability to cloak and not have huge time penalty
for locking, is your main advantage. it can work for solo pvp
but only if its done your way!

fly strange

leo
Ultra Yeti
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-12-27 17:33:03 UTC
leoplusma wrote:
Ultra Yeti wrote:
widow blah blah pvp


well... Widow is a black op. Which means its purpose in game is different than what you want.

However... how many ships in eve are intended for something, yet they are used in a different manner? A LOT.

if you really want to use a Widow for solo pvp, you need to understand its benefits and ofc, its drawbacks.

Widow is based in Scorpion hull, yet its name reminds as of a spider.
No matter what, you need to think yourself as a fragile insect LOL
which can be deadly when choose victims carefully and attack FAST.

imagine:
you are in a widow and you jump into low sec.
then you warp into a belt and stay cloaked,
or you warp to a safe point, deploy probes, cloak, scan.

sooner or later you will see yourself cloaked
in the same room with a large ship who
does ratting or plays a mission alone
and most important of all, your victim doesnt
know you are in the same room.

you start moving close to him and when you
guess time is right you show up like surprise,
lock, tp, throw t2 torps, loot the wreck, cloak.
and if you are fast enough you wont even been locked
by noone not even npc.

you need to understand than tanking in a black op
is MOSTLY done by NOT being locked :)
also you need your enemy to be already engaged in some battle
so he is already receiving damage. you need that because
you want to destroy the ship asap. unless you will attack a mining
barge, which you can pop instantly in most cases.

but lets face it. the ability to cloak and not have huge time penalty
for locking, is your main advantage. it can work for solo pvp
but only if its done your way!

fly strange

leo


Well by far, I believe this was the most experienced and helpful answer I recieved on the thread xD.

To all of the members of EVE who have posted before this, yet after my first reply, I understand what PvP is. I was forced to make this secondary account, after purchasing time through the steam market place. Though I don't really regret such a choosing, I was aggrivated that I was unable to play on my bigger account which hosts a few tens of millions along with the majority of the Black ops and special trainings required to fly a widow. So I understood, right away when I decided to fly with a widow, that I would recieve a multitude of things: Hate, Quick targeting, cloaking abilities, warp crystals to escape, etc.
Even though the first item on the list was a hatered from other players, as anybody who can be good with a ship would get, I still chose to stick with the path of being a black ops fighter. I have NEVER liked mainstream items, I always look for, hell half of the time I will make it if I must, strange/weird/oddities/"out there" builds of any kind.

So I would prefer, instead of trying to direct me to something else or trying to make me "Regret" my decision on flying a Widow, you instead help me out and give me guidance on how to better preform or, at least, command a widow.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-12-27 17:49:27 UTC
Ultra Yeti wrote:
leoplusma wrote:
Ultra Yeti wrote:
widow blah blah pvp


well... Widow is a black op. Which means its purpose in game is different than what you want.

However... how many ships in eve are intended for something, yet they are used in a different manner? A LOT.

if you really want to use a Widow for solo pvp, you need to understand its benefits and ofc, its drawbacks.

Widow is based in Scorpion hull, yet its name reminds as of a spider.
No matter what, you need to think yourself as a fragile insect LOL
which can be deadly when choose victims carefully and attack FAST.

imagine:
you are in a widow and you jump into low sec.
then you warp into a belt and stay cloaked,
or you warp to a safe point, deploy probes, cloak, scan.

sooner or later you will see yourself cloaked
in the same room with a large ship who
does ratting or plays a mission alone
and most important of all, your victim doesnt
know you are in the same room.

you start moving close to him and when you
guess time is right you show up like surprise,
lock, tp, throw t2 torps, loot the wreck, cloak.
and if you are fast enough you wont even been locked
by noone not even npc.

you need to understand than tanking in a black op
is MOSTLY done by NOT being locked :)
also you need your enemy to be already engaged in some battle
so he is already receiving damage. you need that because
you want to destroy the ship asap. unless you will attack a mining
barge, which you can pop instantly in most cases.

but lets face it. the ability to cloak and not have huge time penalty
for locking, is your main advantage. it can work for solo pvp
but only if its done your way!

fly strange

leo


Well by far, I believe this was the most experienced and helpful answer I recieved on the thread xD.

To all of the members of EVE who have posted before this, yet after my first reply, I understand what PvP is. I was forced to make this secondary account, after purchasing time through the steam market place. Though I don't really regret such a choosing, I was aggrivated that I was unable to play on my bigger account which hosts a few tens of millions along with the majority of the Black ops and special trainings required to fly a widow. So I understood, right away when I decided to fly with a widow, that I would recieve a multitude of things: Hate, Quick targeting, cloaking abilities, warp crystals to escape, etc.
Even though the first item on the list was a hatered from other players, as anybody who can be good with a ship would get, I still chose to stick with the path of being a black ops fighter. I have NEVER liked mainstream items, I always look for, hell half of the time I will make it if I must, strange/weird/oddities/"out there" builds of any kind.

So I would prefer, instead of trying to direct me to something else or trying to make me "Regret" my decision on flying a Widow, you instead help me out and give me guidance on how to better preform or, at least, command a widow.


Yep, we're the haters. And people nudging you on to fly your solo Widow meant only the best for you.

Well, good luck out there.Cool
Eternal Error
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-12-27 20:57:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternal Error
Ultra Yeti wrote:


Well by far, I believe this was the most experienced and helpful answer I recieved on the thread xD.

To all of the members of EVE who have posted before this, yet after my first reply, I understand what PvP is. I was forced to make this secondary account, after purchasing time through the steam market place. Though I don't really regret such a choosing, I was aggrivated that I was unable to play on my bigger account which hosts a few tens of millions along with the majority of the Black ops and special trainings required to fly a widow. So I understood, right away when I decided to fly with a widow, that I would recieve a multitude of things: Hate, Quick targeting, cloaking abilities, warp crystals to escape, etc.
Even though the first item on the list was a hatered from other players, as anybody who can be good with a ship would get, I still chose to stick with the path of being a black ops fighter. I have NEVER liked mainstream items, I always look for, hell half of the time I will make it if I must, strange/weird/oddities/"out there" builds of any kind.

So I would prefer, instead of trying to direct me to something else or trying to make me "Regret" my decision on flying a Widow, you instead help me out and give me guidance on how to better preform or, at least, command a widow.

I look forward to your expensive loss mail.

Seriously, I am sick of people coming to this subforum, asking for advice, and then dismissing it because it is "hateful" or tells them to go do x instead of how to improve y. That IS the answer. If you're not going to take those answers because you don't like them, then don't bother asking the questions.

If you are here asking how to solo in a blops, you do not understand PvP. What the hell is a warp crystal?

It's not mainstream for the activities you're asking about because it is BAD for the activities you are asking about. You are not some special snowflake. You will not find a special fit. Someone else has tried and failed before you (or at least looked at it in EFT and said "oh please god no").
leoplusma
Delfus Inc.
#15 - 2012-12-27 22:02:43 UTC
Ultra Yeti wrote:
So I would prefer, instead of trying to direct me to something else or trying to make me "Regret" my decision on flying a Widow, you instead help me out and give me guidance on how to better preform or, at least, command a widow.


lol honestly widow is a amazing ship.
i fly it for the looks. :)

but... you can also fly the Redemeer.
makes it safer but you dont get any loot, only km.
(and yes more blah blah is coming)

warp 100km from position. cloak. wait for victim.
show up. kick his ass or fry his socks, you choose.
get the km.
cloak. wait to see who comes to salvage and loot
the wreck. decloak. pop his earrings. cloak.
wait to see who comes to loot. rinse repeat.

and my last advice will be to pls cool down.
i am just posting my view on the matter.
its not supposed to be ironic, its just me
and the bloody truth: black ops are not
meant to be "solo pvp gank tank ecm cloak boat".
its there to sneak and open the door to the caps.

kisses

leo
Tazarak theDeceiver
United Mining and Hauling Inc
The Initiative.
#16 - 2012-12-28 05:15:13 UTC
This is such a bad idea for so many reasons.

To the OP, you will have immensely more fun building and byrning 100 bkackbirds for the price if a widow. Hell put ECM on
A drake and you'll get more kills and enjoy Eve more . You wouldn't believe how fast any single ship
Goes down against even a gang of 3-4.
Evanga
DoctorOzz
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#17 - 2012-12-28 07:58:39 UTC
I have done my part in a few hundred black ops gangs now, the widow seems to be a perfect support black ops bs in the sense of ECMing the target.

1. Solo pvp for a widow is tricky, you have to be very selective on what you drop on
2. If you want to roll out with a black ops bs gang, the best combination will be a few redeemers/panters for dps, a token sin for neuts/remote reps and the widows for ECM magic.

The widow is not that great as CCP showed in the video, it is a nice boat, but it has a very specific place in a black ops gang.

If you want to roll out anyway with an ECMing bs, go buy a scorp and fit it with ecm ;-)
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#18 - 2012-12-28 10:46:43 UTC
Flying the Widow,
Warp Crystals shining so bright!
Then flying a pod.

.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#19 - 2012-12-28 11:35:40 UTC
Ultra Yeti wrote:
Well as somebody who intends to go straight into PvP once I have aqquired and amassed what I need to
I'm just going to echo what others have said on this. The point you're describing here happens when you gain lvl III in a bunch of frigate, weapon and support skills — probably somewhere around the 2M total SP mark.

Between that an a Widow (which is not the ship you're looking for) lies one or even two years of training — all to stay behind and keep out of trouble while make your fellow stealth bomber and recon pilots have a good time on the field.
Ultra Yeti
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-12-28 18:25:33 UTC
I really wish, the forums would allow for the use of multi-quoting. As I can see some have missed what I meant when I put "Hate" in the list on my secondary reply.

To those who did mis-read it, I meant "Hate", as in the type of hate garnered that proceeds to yourself having more and more bounties placed on your head, making more people target you or making more people fear you (based on how those people play).

Why I am spacing these out like this, I have really no idea. Though this chat box is quiet slow in processing what I am typing...
Anyhow, I thank those who gave an honest opinion on what the Widow is like, and gave advice on how it would be used. I am still thinking of getting a widow, but from what people have shown me (about it being more of a support than an active), I will look around and see if I can find another ship to which I like that would be more of an active DPS when in PvP.
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