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Let's talk about the Dragoon
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Moonasha

Orcses and Goblinz

Likes received: 163

#1 - 2012-12-25 07:57:43 UTC | Edited by: Moonasha

I came in my pants when I saw Amarr was getting a new drone boat (I love the arbi), and came again when I saw it had neut bonuses (I love the blood ships).

However I can't find any discussion / loadouts about it anywhere.

Do people like it? It seems to be a great gang ship. Neuts to blast any annoying frigs nearby, or larger ships. (12600 M range on small neut II, 13200 on small nos II) Basically if they're in scram range you can cap them out. You can put hobgoblins in it to have superior damage but still be as fast as warriors with the bonus. I wish it had a 3rd mid though.

Has anyone flown one in gang or solo pvp yet? How do you fit it? Obviously the coercer is superior when it comes to outright blowing stuff up with its 250 dps ... but I really like the idea of Amarr drone boats, I want to fly the Dragoon!

Noisrevbus

Likes received: 488

#2 - 2012-12-25 11:09:37 UTC | Edited by: Noisrevbus

I think you answered your own question(s).

It's an excellent frig-killer for semi up-close battles versus cap-dependent ships or shorter ranged ships, as you can fringe scram-web range and apply your neuts and drones. However, most Dessies are good against Frigates.

It's neut-range bonus does not extend it beyond the range of M-neuts so facing something like an Arbi is troublesome for it on the same grounds; it has that specific Dessy-sig which is just big enough to comfortably hit with larger weapons while it retains Frigate-like module sizes and slot amounts. Considering there is no price-difference to speak of between something like an Arbi and a Drag, you'd only really want to use a Drag if you specialize highly into the Frigate-aspects of the ship or class (frig-killing, sig-tanking etc.).

Admittedly, i haven't spent much time with the new Dessies, but the only one i've been able to see some allround appeal in is the Talwar with it's sig-bonus. It still rely on niche, like the others, but at least that specific niche can be applied to roles in a larger variety of situations. I find it difficult to see appeal in the other Dessies between the new Cruisers and Frigates outside of highly specialized and situational specifics (or anti-specifics).


Moonasha Orcses and Goblinz Likes received: 163	#3 - 2012-12-25 19:31:32 UTC 1 That's a good point, the arbi seems to be completely better in every aspect, and is all around more useful with its EWAR bonuses. It does pretty much the same DPS, if not more... Oh well.

Syrias Bizniz

some random local shitlords

Likes received: 560

#4 - 2012-12-25 20:34:02 UTC

I'd probably use it for brawling in FW plexes, where you know exactly what opponents can land ontop of you. Because you will have a haaard time dealing with anything that manages to pull range.

[Dragoon, Brawler]
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Small Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Adaptive Nano Plating II

1MN Afterburner II
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

Light Electron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S
Small 'Knave' Energy Drain
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Trimark Armor Pump I
Small Trimark Armor Pump I

Warrior II x5

Fireflyb1

Walden 2.0

Likes received: 64

#5 - 2012-12-25 23:36:21 UTC

Moonasha wrote:

That's a good point, the arbi seems to be completely better in every aspect, and is all around more useful with its EWAR bonuses. It does pretty much the same DPS, if not more... Oh well.

Well yeah, Arby is a cruiser with same role (neutralizing and ewar + drones) so naturally it will do better, but I imagine the dragoon is much cheaper.. not really anything surprising there. It's just choosing which to use, the bigger or the smaller, I guess?

The Scope Gallente Federation 1,705
sabre906 The Scope Gallente Federation Likes received: 1,705	#6 - 2012-12-26 00:33:38 UTC 2 Is it just me or does it not neut enough to matter? If it's like that I'd rather have more guns...

Merdaneth

Angel Wing.

Khimi Harar

Likes received: 399

#7 - 2012-12-26 00:58:38 UTC

1. The Dragoon is terribly slow. Too slow to kite. Even with the 25% MWD speed bonus it gets, it is 30% slower than a Thrasher, and too slow to keep most AB frigates at bay. Basically, the 25% speed bonus is not a real bonus.
2. The neutralizer range is too short. Not enough to stay out of scram/web range or kite in any form.
3. Then neutralizer amount is insufficient. It won't seriously bother other popular destroyers or cruisers and frigs will escape its neutralizer range if they have to.

If they made it a mini-Curse, with enough speed and mid slots, then it would be a great ship, but as it stands I would simply fit it as a brawler like the guy above and forego the neuts altogether. I'm not seeing it useful in other roles. Too slow, too little damage, too predictable, too easily countered.

[Dragoon, Brawl]
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Drone Damage Amplifier II

J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

Rocket Launcher II, Nova Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Nova Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Nova Rage Rocket
Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
Light Ion Blaster II, Void S

Small Trimark Armor Pump I
Small Trimark Armor Pump I
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I

Hobgoblin II x5

Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 223
Garr Earthbender Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire Likes received: 223	#8 - 2012-12-26 01:12:20 UTC 1 I see it as MWD into range, turn off MWD, neut, scram, fight. -Scissors is overpowered, rock is fine. -Paper

Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 1,144
Barrogh Habalu Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire Likes received: 1,144	#9 - 2012-12-26 16:37:19 UTC 8 Merdaneth wrote: 1. The Dragoon is terribly slow. Too slow to kite. Even with the 25% MWD speed bonus it gets, it is 30% slower than a Thrasher, and too slow to keep most AB frigates at bay. Role bonus: +25% to drone microwarpdrive speed You're welcome. Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become

14
Lux Levitas Likes received: 14	#10 - 2012-12-26 16:39:15 UTC 1 Merdaneth wrote: 1. The Dragoon is terribly slow. Too slow to kite. Even with the 25% MWD speed bonus it gets, it is 30% slower than a Thrasher, and too slow to keep most AB frigates at bay. Basically, the 25% speed bonus is not a real bonus. That bonus is actually to the drones MWD speed , not the ship. But, I agree that the ship is pretty slow.

VR Highfive

Hayabusa Logistics.

Likes received: 91

#11 - 2012-12-26 23:32:03 UTC

I hope to get some experience in this ship soon. I agree it seems, on paper at least, a ship that is a useful asset to any gang for 1/4 of the price of an Arbitrator.

I agree as well that is it a bit slow especially considering how fast cruisers are nowadays.

This would be my consideration for an anti frig or destroyer setup;

[Dragoon, AT]
Damage Control II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S

Small Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Small Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Small Semiconductor Memory Cell I

Hobgoblin II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5
Warrior II x5

270DPS (no overheat), 9.5k tank, 1430m/s (no overheat). Cap-stable with 1 neut running and 2 min with both.This mean that you can keep neuting your opponent while keeping your own cap. I would consider swapping a rig for a Aux. Thruster rig giving it 100m/s more and loosing cap stability with 1 neut. But again, I still would need to try it in the wild.

Neuts are deadly but they take time to take effect. The disadvantage of the Dragoon is that it has no bonus to energy transfer amount like the Sentinel, Pilgrim and the Curse. This transfer amount bonus makes these ships very deadly because they make a neut much more effective. In other words; it takes less time to cap out and disable your opponent.

So I am not sure if the Dragoon will be effective enough. You can start earlier with neuting due to the range bonus but due to the slow speed kiting doesn't seem like an option. The question is then, can you cap them out quick enough to survive or make a difference in a fight? I am very curious about this.

High5

Learning solo PvP, one explosion at a time.

Syrias Bizniz

some random local shitlords

Likes received: 560

#12 - 2012-12-27 02:09:22 UTC

VR Highfive wrote:

Well, if you're working solo, you will probably only engage other destroyers or frigates. Most of them will start to struggle with their own tank or dps if you drain their cap, even 1 neut will kick in here pretty fast. SInce you're able to use 2 of them for quite some time you should be able to outcap any frig or dessi and start applying neut pressure manually again once you see his prop / tackle / whatever got disabled.
However, you only run a scram and you are fighting within scramrange yourself. So any AB brawler you engage will simply overheat his AB, burn out of range, start chewing up your drones or disengage at will if he feels like he won't survive longer than you / your drones.
And if you start saying something like 'But my MWD will work again when he flies away', the Tech 1 Interceptors are going something like 1400m/s with AB. No Overheat.

So basically, because of the utter immobility this ship has, the engagement profile is rather limited and depends on you or your opponent landing on zero. The improved neut/nos range is very nice if someone who is actually close range tries to kite you. Scram / Web reaches out to 10.5 / 13km in OH, and thanks to your rolebonus you will be able to put neutpressure on him even at this range.

So all in all, you will probable be able to kill enemies that fight to the last bit of hull they have, and won't be able to kill anyone that knows how to fight you.

Because of that, i don't think it's a good solo boat. It works in certain scenarios where it will totally slaughter some guys. But there are more versatile hulls out there that will accomplish the same that are harder to counter.

So what we're probably looking at is a ship designed for gang work, where it won't be the tackle, but the heavy support in form of decent drone dps / room for utility drones like webbing, repping, ecm, and capacitor warfare. The range bonus helps it to stay alive, on a small path between overheated scram range and out of neut range. And best with logistics on your side, maybe a Support Frig, or if you're going a little bit in style, an Augoror. The latter will even be able to project cap onto you so you can really start blowing their cap and keep em shut, ...

But let's be honest. Before i took someone in a destroyer with me that has to be damn squishy to fit a good rack of neuts and who should have destroyers at 5 to make it actually work decently, i'll just hand him a Vexor, put some med neuts on it and it will do the same job by far better.

Use it as a Brawler in FW where it sits at zero and waits for prey to warp right ontop of him, where he can start tearing him apart instantly with low chance of enemy survival. MWD sucks for this. Active tank will be way to go, you can be almost certain that this guy won't be alone for too long. NOS will enhance your active tank potential, but since you want to neut him, you will run into problems.

[Dragoon, FW Brawl]
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Small Armor Repairer II

1MN Afterburner II
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Small 'Knave' Energy Drain
Small 'Knave' Energy Drain
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S

Small Targeting System Subcontroller I
Small Targeting System Subcontroller I
Small Ancillary Current Router I

Hobgoblin II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5
Warrior SW-300 x5

Explanation to follow

Syrias Bizniz

some random local shitlords

Likes received: 560

#13 - 2012-12-27 02:24:49 UTC | Edited by: Syrias Bizniz

Let's start with the setup of the fight:

You position yourself in a FW Plex and sit at 0 on the beacon where everyone that warp in lands.

So, what do we have. We have a
400mm plate for armor buffer. It will buy you time before your ship explodes in glorious space fire.
A small repper for active tank. It will try to restore as much armor as possible, hopefully enough for the combination of buffer + restored armor to make your opponent's ship explode in glorious space fire.
DC II, selfexplanatory.
EANM II, ... well, there was spare CPU so a Plating would be stupid.

An Afterburner. You will fight in scramrange, you want to be as mobile as possible. MWD sucks here.
A warp scrambler. You will fight in scramrange and want to keep your opponent from getting away.

One Small Neut. For Neuting your opponent.
3 Autocannons. For hurting your opponent.
2 Small Nos. For fueling your neut and rep out of your opponent's capacitor.

A small Ancillary Current router. So you can fit all that stuff.
2 Targeting System Subcontroler. So you will lock your opponent faster.

Hobgoblins for hurting your opponent.
ECM Drones for annoying your opponent.
Webber drones for the case you want to catch up. Yeah, actually, they might work here.

So, why no armor rigs but some... targeting rigs?
Well, armor rigs make you slow. Your opponent will have a better time running away from you.
Targeting Rigs make your lock faster. Your opponent will have roughly 1 sec less time to burn out of range. And they only affect your shield, who the hell needs shields anyways!
Why no capacitor rigs?
Because you will either: Want to be almost dry yourself you your NOS will still work
Or: you wont run your neut anyways because neuting your opponent is senseless. Rare, but occasionaly there are some ships where a neut won't do that much at all.

So, someone warps in onto you, you lock him with enhanced locking time(!!111!), scram him, neut him, start dpsing him. And you will start armor repping once you drop into armor. Your NOS are not online at this moment, or, well, just run them, either they will leach cap or they wont. If he is scramed and still faster than you, maybe it's time ro pull in drones - or abandon them - and throw out your webber drones in hope you will slow him enough to approach him again. ...

Well, just now i feel like why the **** am i explaining this. It's a balls deep setup, kill him or get killed. Activate everything, try to stay on him, try to kill him, try not to die, check directional, if **** hits fan abandon drones, throw out ECM and start praying.

Gitanmaxx

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 116

#14 - 2012-12-31 15:58:26 UTC | Edited by: Gitanmaxx

Syrias Bizniz wrote:

I was really excited for this ship because I fly amarr mostly and like drones. but i can't seem to get a fit on this.
I have all fitting skills to 4 or 5. For example the above fit I have to leave 4 highs empty because I run out of pg.
can't fit:
Light Electron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S
Small 'Knave' Energy Drain


Syrias Bizniz some random local shitlords Likes received: 560	#15 - 2012-12-31 16:25:55 UTC 1 The PG you should have for fitting your stuff should be at 79.5 with all V, of which the fitting will use 76. Maybe you have a t2 plate and a mwd fitted?

Inkarr Hashur

Skyline Federation

Likes received: 504

#16 - 2012-12-31 16:37:56 UTC

Barrogh Habalu wrote:

Merdaneth wrote:

1. The Dragoon is terribly slow. Too slow to kite. Even with the 25% MWD speed bonus it gets, it is 30% slower than a Thrasher, and too slow to keep most AB frigates at bay.

Role bonus:
+25% to drone microwarpdrive speed

You're welcome.

I think this is a serious problem with the hull. How is this bonus useful? if your drones couldn't keep up with your opponent then I think you have bigger issues than just being able to apply DPS. Such as, I dunno, maybe the fact that your target can disengage at any point he feels like?

Syrias Bizniz

some random local shitlords

Likes received: 560

#17 - 2012-12-31 18:53:41 UTC

The Drone MWD speed bonus actually makes your hobgoblins go as fast as other ship's warriors. And your warriors will be even faster. They will be able to catch up to some kiting frigs and actually be able to do damage. If you recall them, they have higher chances of surviving.

But yeah, that bonus is lacking. Maybe, ... but only maybe it is actually good if you want to use webbing drones, as they will catch up faster. Maybe even the 600s will have suitable speed now, and a stack of 2x600 + 1x300 should have greater effect than 5x300.

Aurelius Valentius

Valentius Corporation

Valentius Corporation Alliance

Likes received: 448

#18 - 2012-12-31 20:23:05 UTC

personally I like it, but I found it's best used in one of two ways:

and I just mount T2 drones and modules on it for the sake of simplicity, they fit.

1. I put an AB on it and run that cap stable, no issue there - so you have some decent speed.
2. I armor tank it, and put lasers and missiles on it - rockets for close, lights for distance, I never put a nos/neut on it.
3. once you have looked at this and put your HS weapons on - scorch and rage is my fav, and your AB, you can put on your MS and LS as you can fit them, I think I put on a Cap booster and a Scram if I remember right, or maybe it was a Dist... hell sec here let me get out EFT...

[Dragoon, Dragoon v1.0] - kind of a longer ranged version
Damage Control II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
200mm Reinforced Steel Plates II

1MN Afterburner II
Warp Disruptor II

Light Missile Launcher II, Inferno Precision Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Inferno Precision Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Inferno Precision Light Missile
Dual Light Beam Laser II, Aurora S
Dual Light Beam Laser II, Aurora S
Dual Light Beam Laser II, Aurora S

Small Anti-Kinetic Pump I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Trimark Armor Pump I

Warrior II x5
Valkyrie II x5

also there is a support "mini-carrier" version for a small gang which can be fun

[Dragoon, Dragoon v1.0]
Damage Control II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
400mm Reinforced Steel Plates II

1MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II

200mm AutoCannon II, Barrage S
200mm AutoCannon II, Barrage S
200mm AutoCannon II, Barrage S
Rocket Launcher II, Nova Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Nova Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Nova Rage Rocket

Small Anti-Kinetic Pump I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Trimark Armor Pump I

Acolyte TD-300 x5
Acolyte EV-300 x5
Hornet EC-300 x5

Or this:
[Dragoon, Dragoon v1.0]
Damage Control II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
400mm Reinforced Steel Plates II

1MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II

Light Electron Blaster II, Void S
Light Electron Blaster II, Void S
Light Electron Blaster II, Void S
Rocket Launcher II, Nova Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Nova Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Nova Rage Rocket

Small Anti-Kinetic Pump I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Trimark Armor Pump I

Acolyte TD-300 x5
Acolyte EV-300 x5
Hornet EC-300 x5

The mining version - though not that great...lol:
[Dragoon, Dragoon v1.0]
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II

1MN Afterburner II
Survey Scanner II

Salvager II
Salvager II
Salvager II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Processor Overclocking Unit I

Hobgoblin II x5
Mining Drone II x5
Salvage Drone I x5

Basically you can do alot with this ship both fail and good fits, I have found that the rigs Kin/Exp/Tri are good with a DCU II, 2x ANM IIs and a 400 II plate, as a standard LS, AB is good you can perma run it, Drones are whatever you like, plenty of room and even some odd ones if you like to toy with things like ECM, TDs, SD, etc... or some salvage drones [for when victory is assured!], the MS are a scram solo but if you have someone else along for tackle you can get creative, will anything that will fit... the HS, I like weapons over Nos/Neut - just a preference on this ship, but you can def mix it and match it if you like, no issue, if your into missiles and nos/neuts or guns and nos/neuts it works, and any gun works since no damage mods...

Finally, The GALLENTE VERSION:
[Dragoon, Dragoon v1.0]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Damage Control II

1MN Microwarpdrive II
Warp Scrambler II

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Small Energy Neutralizer II
Small Energy Neutralizer II
Small Energy Neutralizer II

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Ancillary Current Router I

Ogre II x3 - launch one at a time

and you need a 3% CPU


Gitanmaxx Viziam Amarr Empire Likes received: 116	#19 - 2012-12-31 22:50:22 UTC Syrias Bizniz wrote: The PG you should have for fitting your stuff should be at 79.5 with all V, of which the fitting will use 76. Maybe you have a t2 plate and a mwd fitted? I don't have a mwd, but you're correct I did have t2 plate.

Garr Earthbender

Imperial Shipment

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 223

#20 - 2012-12-31 23:41:57 UTC

So far the one that I'm working with has no prop and basically just sits at the warp in of a FW plex. Web scram and neut. Thing should be over before you run outta cap and buffer.

[[Dragoon, Plexing dragoon]
Damage Control II
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Adaptive Nano Plating II

Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II

Small Energy Neutralizer II
Small Energy Neutralizer II
Small Energy Neutralizer II
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket

Small Trimark Armor Pump I
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I
Small Trimark Armor Pump I

Salvage Drone I x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Hobgoblin II x5

-Scissors is overpowered, rock is fine. -Paper

123Next page

Ships & Modules

Orcses and Goblinz

some random local shitlords

Walden 2.0

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Angel Wing.

Khimi Harar

Imperial Shipment

Amarr Empire

Imperial Shipment

Amarr Empire

Hayabusa Logistics.

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Skyline Federation

Valentius Corporation

Valentius Corporation Alliance