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The best and only way to nerf highsec
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Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#101 - 2012-12-26 19:00:00 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Simetraz wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Simetraz wrote:
THe reality is it won't ever happen because Null doesn't want it to happen.
WIth all the NAP's going on right now it might work.
WHo was that alliance who had nuetral stations spread around null ?

Not us, and we can't dock there.

Try npc null stations, when not bubbled and camped...


LOL, they where around before Goonies even existed or at least before they left high-sec.
They had several stations in your section of space and some down south as well.

And yup it would take someone to enforce nuatrality in NPC Null.
Doesn't work to well.
Most players hate NRDS.

CVA lets neutrals dock if I recall. THey also go nuts setting people red.


AH found them
INTERSTELLAR STARBASE SYNDICATE

EVERYBODY KNOWS
Cat Troll
Incorruptibles
#102 - 2012-12-26 20:49:02 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Simetraz wrote:
Cat Troll wrote:
celebro wrote:
No, there needs to be trade between high and null sec.

It already exists.
High just won't be as lucrative.



What you don't get is that a vast majority of items produced in High-sec go right back to null.
basically you are trying to force Null-sec to become industrial.

What is funny is that back when 20,000 players was peak nobody cared about high-sec being a industrial base.
But now when High-sec industry is needed just to keep things going people want to nerf it.

IF you want to nerf high-sec.
Stop selling minerals , moon-goo to high-sec.
THere is nothing stopping null from setting up a Null-sec Jita.
One of the NPC null locations would work just fine.

THe reality is it won't ever happen because Null doesn't want it to happen.
WIth all the NAP's going on right now it might work.
WHo was that alliance who had nuetral stations spread around null ?




While you can prevent yourself and maybe a few more people from seling to empire market, how do you prevent the rest from doing it as the price rise because demand is not met? You would face the exact same problem miner would if they tried to make the minerals price go up, Someone else will sell instead of you and he will get ISKs while you don't. You can't blockade empire out. You can't stop the movement of assets. The economy will keep flowing as long as someone sets his price low enough. Hulkageddon dind't stop miners despite the trillions in damage done. You can't stop that kind of force unless you have dev power to change the rules.

^

Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
#103 - 2012-12-26 21:33:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Peter Raptor
Nerf hisec, and prices will soar, thats just a given.

Hisec was "nerfed" with neverending Hulkageddon before mining ships were buffed, inflation took off.

Evelopedia; 

The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion  †  
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#104 - 2012-12-26 21:36:58 UTC
Oh no, no more full t3 fleets!

What will we do?!

Eve still needs a good whack to power creep. That is a bonus to rebalancing rewards.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#105 - 2012-12-26 22:48:17 UTC
The "best way to NERF Hi Sec" is for all the Null Sec alliances to get on down to Empire and get medieval on those asses.

But we all know that won't happen because everybody in Null is constantly looking over their own shoulders, and nobody is going to leave their "assets" exposed anywhere near long to solidly trash Empire with an invasion large enough to have lasting effect.

Economic interdictions aside, and those are temporary at best (worst?), nobody of any meaningful size is going to risk it.

Blink

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#106 - 2012-12-26 23:28:40 UTC
Felicity Love wrote:
The "best way to NERF Hi Sec" is for all the Null Sec alliances to get on down to Empire and get medieval on those asses.

But we all know that won't happen because everybody in Null is constantly looking over their own shoulders, and nobody is going to leave their "assets" exposed anywhere near long to solidly trash Empire with an invasion large enough to have lasting effect.

Economic interdictions aside, and those are temporary at best (worst?), nobody of any meaningful size is going to risk it.

Blink

That's the best way to buff highsec. Because CCP will step in and ~do things~.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
RichtPaul
Shadow Industries I
#107 - 2012-12-27 01:10:34 UTC
Cat Troll wrote:
I'm a high sec industrialist BTW, so don't shout "go back to null and leave us alone".

The best and only way to nerf highsec is to reduce the amount of research/copy/manufacturing slots and make refining something that takes time.
Mission payments are fine, the problem is that highsec industry is so saturated that prices are down to dirt cheap levels.
I remember seeing somewhere an industrialist say that he sells ships at a loss and makes a profit out of the modules.
Yup, that's really smart!
If there is less competition, you are limiting supply and increasing demand, hence the prices will go up, so the mission rewards wouldn't be a problem.
This will also drive industrialists into low sec and null sec, to either set up a PoS there to manufacture and refine minerals or join up an alliance or just use a nearby station.
And make it so you can't have 99.99% mineral yield in highsec, make it max of 75% in high sec. 87% in low sec and 99.99% in null sec.
About ore distribution:
Null sec: Abundance of raw materials both high and low ends, with slight buff in industry, refining etc.

High sec: Cheap, stable industry. This is where you should get the best deals. More or less what we have now. Dependent on 0.0 for most of the raw materials required.

And now we go to null sec:
When you fix PoS's make sure to:
A. limit some types of PoS's to low and null sec, or else we're at square one
B. make it so the limited PoS's will yield better results with industry
C. Improve the PoS production and refining stuff

High sec industry will exist, but it will be more limited.
You may set up a personal PoS in high sec (CCP said something about personal PoS's), but it won't be as efficient.

There, I just fixed high sec, and buffed null sec reasonably without hurting the two too much.
Was it that hard?


Make it so it takes less time to research BPOs and manufacture stuff in low and null sec and you have yourself a deal.
MR DEMOS
DKL Fringe Division
3 Jackals
#108 - 2012-12-27 01:24:26 UTC
hehehehehe Best Fix EVER :)) SHOT GUN, CCP SERVER KILL THE GERBALS Lol Fixed TwistedOHHH YEAH Lol
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2012-12-27 03:40:48 UTC
So, you want CCP to nerf your competition?

You miss the real issue with EVE and High Sec. It's a 10 year old game. Every one is 'high Sec capped'. We all have 8.0 with an empire and are refinery capped. We have max bonus to everything. There is no distinguishing trademark between the Industrialists of EVE. You think you have an edge and can some how rise above the nerf but you are wrong.

CCP need to break the stale mate.
Cat Troll
Incorruptibles
#110 - 2012-12-27 04:34:17 UTC
Sisohiv wrote:
So, you want CCP to nerf your competition?

You miss the real issue with EVE and High Sec. It's a 10 year old game. Every one is 'high Sec capped'. We all have 8.0 with an empire and are refinery capped. We have max bonus to everything. There is no distinguishing trademark between the Industrialists of EVE. You think you have an edge and can some how rise above the nerf but you are wrong.

CCP need to break the stale mate.

Thats where you lost me.

Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#111 - 2012-12-27 04:40:11 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
Oh no, no more full t3 fleets!

What will we do?!

Eve still needs a good whack to power creep. That is a bonus to rebalancing rewards.


Full fleets of the upgraded T1 cruisers actually may help with this some. I know our Euro's went and bumped off a tengu fleet using nothing but T1 cruisers/logi's.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#112 - 2012-12-27 05:44:28 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Varius Xeral wrote:
Oh no, no more full t3 fleets!

What will we do?!

Eve still needs a good whack to power creep. That is a bonus to rebalancing rewards.

Full fleets of the upgraded T1 cruisers actually may help with this some. I know our Euro's went and bumped off a tengu fleet using nothing but T1 cruisers/logi's.

So we're gonna replace T3 fleets with T1 blobs.

Blobberssssssssssss

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#113 - 2012-12-27 05:49:34 UTC
When I stopped playing during the height of incursion farming, everything below BCs were effectively removed from the game as a viable combat ship because of ridiculous power creep.

I hope CCP drops a hammer on hisec industry and everything becomes harder to get, and consequently more valuable and meaningful.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Ryuji Takemiya
Doomheim
#114 - 2012-12-27 06:09:23 UTC
Cat Troll wrote:
I'm a high sec industrialist BTW, so don't shout "go back to null and leave us alone".

The best and only way to nerf highsec is to reduce the amount of research/copy/manufacturing slots and make refining something that takes time.
Mission payments are fine, the problem is that highsec industry is so saturated that prices are down to dirt cheap levels.
I remember seeing somewhere an industrialist say that he sells ships at a loss and makes a profit out of the modules.
Yup, that's really smart!
If there is less competition, you are limiting supply and increasing demand, hence the prices will go up, so the mission rewards wouldn't be a problem.
This will also drive industrialists into low sec and null sec, to either set up a PoS there to manufacture and refine minerals or join up an alliance or just use a nearby station.
And make it so you can't have 99.99% mineral yield in highsec, make it max of 75% in high sec. 87% in low sec and 99.99% in null sec.
About ore distribution:
Null sec: Abundance of raw materials both high and low ends, with slight buff in industry, refining etc.

High sec: Cheap, stable industry. This is where you should get the best deals. More or less what we have now. Dependent on 0.0 for most of the raw materials required.

And now we go to null sec:
When you fix PoS's make sure to:
A. limit some types of PoS's to low and null sec, or else we're at square one
B. make it so the limited PoS's will yield better results with industry
C. Improve the PoS production and refining stuff

High sec industry will exist, but it will be more limited.
You may set up a personal PoS in high sec (CCP said something about personal PoS's), but it won't be as efficient.

There, I just fixed high sec, and buffed null sec reasonably without hurting the two too much.
Was it that hard?


I'm sorry but there's no nerfing High Sec, at least in industrial terms, because that is where the major tradehubs are and that is a result of the EVE sandbox.

If you're a solo operation, a niche manufacturer, or manage production of a small corp, you can comfortably get away with setting up shop down in most places in Null. But once you start getting bigger, the sheer amount of product you start manufacturing will reach a point where you need as many potential customers as possible to turn-over your goods and get those iskies reinvested in your business. And those shoppers are in High Sec.

It would require a massive game-changing effort by CCP to push people away from High Sec that I doubt they'd be comfortable doing.

Most likely the best remedy will continue to be the null alliances that create their own in-house tradehubs.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#115 - 2012-12-27 07:49:10 UTC
op gets it
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#116 - 2012-12-27 07:51:47 UTC
Ryuji Takemiya wrote:

I'm sorry but there's no nerfing High Sec, at least in industrial terms, because that is where the major tradehubs are and that is a result of the EVE sandbox.
Not really it's a result of players acting on hardcoded game mechanics. The location is up to the players but the incentives that influence their decisions are determined by mechanics.
Frying Doom
#117 - 2012-12-27 07:58:57 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
op gets it

It would have been a great idea 10 years ago but now the destruction of hi-sec by limiting everything and just giving it all to Null will lead to the mass unsubs of those who are just casual gamers and that are happy with their easy Hi-sec lives.

No one likes change, for reference see any of the remove local from Null threads and listen to the Unsub threats. That is just for removing one thing off Null not decimating the entire area.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#118 - 2012-12-27 08:07:33 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
op gets it

It would have been a great idea 10 years ago but now the destruction of hi-sec by limiting everything and just giving it all to Null will lead to the mass unsubs of those who are just casual gamers and that are happy with their easy Hi-sec lives.
Only mass unsubs and sub stagnation in EVE was when the "easy hisec life" was catered to exclusively, with expansions like Tyrannis and Incursion. EVE hasn't survived for 10 years because it's easy; it has survived because it's hard.

Quote:
No one likes change, for reference see any of the remove local from Null threads and listen to the Unsub threats. That is just for removing one thing off Null not decimating the entire area.
I'd love to see you actually reference a threat to unsub over removing local from one of your dumb 'remove local in that region i dont play in' threads. Everyone told you that people would just do more PvE in highsec, not unsub. This claim is as hollow as the empty mass carebear unsub threat.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#119 - 2012-12-27 08:09:16 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Frying Doom wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
op gets it

It would have been a great idea 10 years ago but now the destruction of hi-sec by limiting everything and just giving it all to Null will lead to the mass unsubs of those who are just casual gamers and that are happy with their easy Hi-sec lives.

No one likes change, for reference see any of the remove local from Null threads and listen to the Unsub threats. That is just for removing one thing off Null not decimating the entire area.

That's not the same thing...

And besides, I don't recall anybody threatening to unsub, I just remember people saying it was a really stupid idea, which it still is.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Frying Doom
#120 - 2012-12-27 08:37:37 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
op gets it

It would have been a great idea 10 years ago but now the destruction of hi-sec by limiting everything and just giving it all to Null will lead to the mass unsubs of those who are just casual gamers and that are happy with their easy Hi-sec lives.

No one likes change, for reference see any of the remove local from Null threads and listen to the Unsub threats. That is just for removing one thing off Null not decimating the entire area.

That's not the same thing...

And besides, I don't recall anybody threatening to unsub, I just remember people saying it was a really stupid idea, which it still is.

No over some of them people have threatened to unsub, other threatened to leave the area. Kind of funny when you are talking about something as small as local but the same people cannot understand that people would probably leave the game with larger changes occurring to Hi-sec.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!