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Tec2 Capital ships
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Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-12-26 18:34:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Simetraz
We really don't need any more capital ships in the game.

Too some extent CCP has been nice by allowing BS and BC;s to even dock in a carrier.
IT wouldn't take much to remove certain classes of ships from the carriers.
The code is there as they already do that in the rorqual.

I am not saying it is a good idea, just saying it.

Still not happy about Supers only carrying FIghters and Bombers.
Carriers / supers should have a fighter bay and a drone bay.
Sadly it will never happen.
But it should as it would make it a lot easier in the long run to balance.

EVERYBODY KNOWS
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#42 - 2012-12-26 18:39:12 UTC
Revalyn wrote:
. When we have to move large numbers of battleships into null the limited capacity of carriers for large ships can be a hindrance.


It's easier to move the blueprints, compress the minerals into something else, melt down the compression item to get the minerals again, and build them on site. Of course it takes a lot of blueprints to get decent parallel runs going, but a couple jump-freighters full of 425mm rails or 1600m plates will build you an armada of battlecruisers...
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#43 - 2012-12-26 18:43:02 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
We really don't need any more capital ships in the game.

Too some extent CCP has been nice by allowing BS and BC;s to even dock in a carrier.
IT wouldn't take much to remove certain classes of ships from the carriers.
The code is there as they already do that in the rorqual.

I am not saying it is a good idea, just saying it.

Still not happy about Supers only carrying FIghters and Bombers.
Carriers / supers should have a fighter bay and a drone bay.
Sadly it will never happen.
But it should as it would make it a lot easier in the long run to balance.

From uberboots to superboots, eh.

Or reallyslowcats

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#44 - 2012-12-26 18:58:16 UTC
Pitorro0 wrote:
Yes please more content for the 1%


You mean the .01% don't you?


Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#45 - 2012-12-26 19:02:02 UTC
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Pitorro0 wrote:
Yes please more content for the 1%

You mean the .01% don't you?

No. Supercap proliferation, remember?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-12-26 19:05:10 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Pitorro0 wrote:
Yes please more content for the 1%

You mean the .01% don't you?

No. Supercap proliferation, remember?


Supertitans blob supported by ubercarrier. Because, why the **** not?
volly
Die Sturmtruppe
#47 - 2012-12-26 19:22:26 UTC
Yes, ccp please seed real Deathstars with hundeds of turrets and Fighter, a size many times bigger than stations, a kind of flying POS, maybe controlable from many Pilots at once

A new Shipclass which will turn the battle.

To build one you only Need, say 20 Titans, 30 Supercarriers, 100 Dreads and Carriers Big smile

This move could reduce a huge amount of supercaps and bring a Ship Titans were meant to be

Nothing is more boring to see these supercap blobs... but a single REALY powerful Deathstar...
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-12-26 19:24:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Simetraz
Another side note.

I soooo wish (WANT) you could actually go along for the ride when you dock your ship in a carrier.

AND

I want the the covert cyno to have a mass limit that would allow several carriers to use it.

EVERYBODY KNOWS
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-12-26 19:28:14 UTC
volly wrote:
Yes, ccp please seed real Deathstars with hundeds of turrets and Fighter, a size many times bigger than stations, a kind of flying POS, maybe controlable from many Pilots at once

A new Shipclass which will turn the battle.

To build one you only Need, say 20 Titans, 30 Supercarriers, 100 Dreads and Carriers Big smile

This move could reduce a huge amount of supercaps and bring a Ship Titans were meant to be

Nothing is more boring to see these supercap blobs... but a single REALY powerful Deathstar...



Only if a couple bombers (player type) could fly down into the center of it and blow it up TwistedTwistedTwistedTwisted
And Manual control would definitely be needed for it, not the click in space for direction thing.

EVERYBODY KNOWS
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#50 - 2012-12-26 19:28:45 UTC
volly wrote:
Yes, ccp please seed real Deathstars with hundeds of turrets and Fighter, a size many times bigger than stations, a kind of flying POS, maybe controlable from many Pilots at once

A new Shipclass which will turn the battle.

To build one you only Need, say 20 Titans, 30 Supercarriers, 100 Dreads and Carriers Big smile

This move could reduce a huge amount of supercaps and bring a Ship Titans were meant to be

Nothing is more boring to see these supercap blobs... but a single REALY powerful Deathstar...

Deathstar blob time.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Pyre leFay
Doomheim
#51 - 2012-12-26 19:33:23 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Deathstar blob time.


Deathstars can only target supercaps because everything else is too small don't you know
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-12-26 20:13:37 UTC
Pyre leFay wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Deathstar blob time.


Deathstars can only target supercaps because everything else is too small don't you know


Who need targetting when you have drones set to aggressive?
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#53 - 2012-12-26 20:18:58 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
Revalyn wrote:
We play Eve as a fantasy game so real life comparisons are a bit lame. When we have to move large numbers of battleships into null the limited capacity of carriers for large ships can be a hindrance.


Compare the size of a machariel to a thanatos. It's barely smaller. A carrier is not a jump freighter - if you want risk-free travel, set up a jump bridge network. Alternately, fly in a big enough blob that nobody's going to shoot your 200+ battleships.


Carriers weren't scaled correctly last I checked, but that doesn't mean you could fit a whole lot in them. They're designed for Carrying Fighters and Bombers, which are much smaller than the average ship.

Based on volume, the Chimera is about 25 times the size of a Scorpion. I'm fairly certain it doesn't look that way in game. At best, in theory, you could dock maybe 2 such ships on it, but I have no idea what its hangar capacity is, or even if it has one. I'll have to have a look in game later.

zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#54 - 2012-12-26 20:23:37 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
ElQuirko wrote:
Revalyn wrote:
We play Eve as a fantasy game so real life comparisons are a bit lame. When we have to move large numbers of battleships into null the limited capacity of carriers for large ships can be a hindrance.


Compare the size of a machariel to a thanatos. It's barely smaller. A carrier is not a jump freighter - if you want risk-free travel, set up a jump bridge network. Alternately, fly in a big enough blob that nobody's going to shoot your 200+ battleships.

Carriers weren't scaled correctly last I checked, but that doesn't mean you could fit a whole lot in them. They're designed for Carrying Fighters and Bombers, which are much smaller than the average ship.

Based on volume, the Chimera is about 25 times the size of a Scorpion. I'm fairly certain it doesn't look that way in game. At best, in theory, you could dock maybe 2 such ships on it, but I have no idea what its hangar capacity is, or even if it has one. I'll have to have a look in game later.

You can put 2 battleships in a carrier I think...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#55 - 2012-12-26 20:36:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
A lot of the people objecting to T2 capitals are thinking about T2 super capitals. I don't think there's any harm in T2 capital ships. Even a T2 Archon wouldn't (shouldn't?) be looking at near the EHP or DPS of an Aeon. Consider a possible T2 Nidhoggur - ideally suited to be an extremely expensive triage carrier:
- 7.5% shield boost and capital repair amount per Advanced Carrier level
- 5% cap recharge per Advanced Carrier level

Consider another possible T2 carrier:
- 10% corp hangar space per Advanced Carrier level
- 20% ship maintenance bay per Advanced Carrier level

Seems mighty overpowered to me! Roll

-Liang

Ed: I think the only place either one of those ships would see use is in wormholes. Nobody in their right mind is going to be dropping expensive T2 carriers to be volleyed by the first guy with a Titan.

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#56 - 2012-12-26 20:39:50 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Ed: I think the only place either one of those ships would see use is in wormholes. Nobody in their right mind is going to be dropping expensive T2 carriers to be volleyed by the first guy with a Titan.

In the case of our uberarchon, it might take two or maybe three doomsdays, if they have better resists and tank.

The cost would likely be high enough that maybe you should just get a supercarrier.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#57 - 2012-12-26 21:13:34 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Ed: I think the only place either one of those ships would see use is in wormholes. Nobody in their right mind is going to be dropping expensive T2 carriers to be volleyed by the first guy with a Titan.

In the case of our uberarchon, it might take two or maybe three doomsdays, if they have better resists and tank.

The cost would likely be high enough that maybe you should just get a supercarrier.


Yeah, who knows how much extra tank they'd give. Either way we aren't going to be seeing anything approaching the DPS or EHP of an Aeon out of it. I have no doubt that a T2 carrier would, in essence, still be a carrier.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#58 - 2012-12-27 23:20:03 UTC
volly wrote:
Yes, ccp please seed real Deathstars with hundeds of turrets and Fighter, a size many times bigger than stations, a kind of flying POS, maybe controlable from many Pilots at once

A new Shipclass which will turn the battle.

To build one you only Need, say 20 Titans, 30 Supercarriers, 100 Dreads and Carriers Big smile

This move could reduce a huge amount of supercaps and bring a Ship Titans were meant to be

Nothing is more boring to see these supercap blobs... but a single REALY powerful Deathstar...



If they went with a "bigger ship" idea I would have no problem so long as:

a) It can't hide in a POS
b) It can't dock
c) It constantly consumes a vast amount of materials (fuel blocks?) just to keep it running - so that it's not just a case of I build it I park/sell it/I build another one. Keeping this baby online should require an extreme amount of work/effort on behalf of a large alliance. That should prevent an alliance from owning more than one at a time...
d) if it runs out of its consumable fuel it can't move, doesn't disappear on log-off, can't cloak and is extremely vulnerable (hint - don't run out of fuel, ever).
e) Extremely short jump drive range, meaning it takes forever to get from one side of the map to the other.
f) can 1-shot stations, ihubs, etc but useless against capitals and subcaps, to which it should be vulnerable. Hint - protect the damned thing.

If the above isn't met, then it would just be a "bigger" supercap and in 2 years, everyone would have one.
Ginger Barbarella
#59 - 2012-12-27 23:28:28 UTC
Revalyn wrote:
Do you think we will ever get these?

A tec2 Titan that costs a trillion ISK- I'd like to be on that kill?

Titans are now very prolific- perhaps it is time to bring back the magic of a really elite capital that costs trillions and can only ever be owned by an Alliance as its upkeep would be huge. I was thinking more in line of a truly mobile station.

A dream or a future reality?

Quick edit- CCP can we have a proper carrier- how can a capital ship that can only carry 2 battleships be called a carrier- even a supercap can only carry 5-6 battleships.


We need to buff tech moons so the big alliances can afford those uber-caps. Yeah, buff the hell out of 'em.

Oh, and post more about how null is empty, how null needs to be buffed, how high sec needs a serious nerf, and NPC corps need to be abolished.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
iskflakes
#60 - 2012-12-28 00:36:50 UTC
There are enough problems with current supercaps, specifically the supercarrier lacks a well defined role after the removal of its drones and both titans and supers never die and never get used. Cyno mechanics make it safest to form supers into a massive unkillable blob, which has a very negative effect on nullsec.

Both these ship classes need to have well balanced and well defined roles. For example the supercarrier could become a lone capital hunter, or a more powerful dreadnought (with maybe 2-3 times the DPS), or a fleet support ship that pilots can dock in. The titan could become an anti-blob ship to prevent blob proliferation by giving it bonuses to smartbomb range and damage, and capital turret tracking. The current situation in which supers and titans are outperformed by ships that cost 1/100th their price is simply stupid.

Adding new roles takes a lot of time for CCP though and it won't happen soon. A much more effective short term fix would be to modify the cyno mechanics. If a change is not made the supercap blob just gets bigger, less fun and less killable. If CCP added a mass limit to cynos it would become extremely difficult to put more than 2 or 3 supercaps on field at once. This kind of change would allow super pilots from smaller alliances to operate more freely, as they won't have to fear being dropped by 300 titans that will kill them in 6 seconds. Subcap pilots also benefit, as small numbers of supers are vulnerable to them. There is nothing worse than tackling a super, only to have 250 of his friends arrive within 5 minutes from the other side of the galaxy to save him with limitless remote reps. Large blobs of supers would have to split up and operate more independently. Smaller gangs are more fun to fly in, and more fun to fight. Everybody wins.

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