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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Introducing the New Order
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Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#81 - 2012-12-26 06:09:08 UTC
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
We do whatever we like regardless of Concord, and there's nothing stopping you from doing the same.


Concord is the law. There is a word for those who disregard the law.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Lin Suizei
#82 - 2012-12-26 11:02:58 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
I will admit that I do have some sympathy for your cause - inattentive pilots are careless pilots, and careless pilots are a deep hazard. I have no issue with your pursuit of recalcitrant pilots of any sort. My issue deals more with your harassment of peaceable and harmless industrialists, whom you shamelessly extort. Were you to avoid the latter and focus solely on the former, I would have little cause for concern.


If a miner is attentive, then a miner may freely move his ship out of the way of any incoming bumps at his own leisure - thereby making himself almost immune to bumping. If a miner instead actively chooses not to move his ship out of the way and instead, receive the bump, then whose fault is it that he was bumped out of range?

If a miner does not move out of the way of a bump, does that not mean that he is either:

- a new pilot, unaware of the results of two ships colliding at high speed (and to be fair, we don't attempt to bump new pilots within Rookie systems), or;
- an inattentive pilot?

As you said, inattentive pilots are careless pilots, and careless pilots are a deep hazard. Therefore, we take every measure we can to destroy them, so they do not present any further hazard to the wider capsuleer community.

Lol I can't delete my forum sig.
Paten Sketem
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2012-12-26 18:07:07 UTC
Lin Suizei wrote:
As you said, inattentive pilots are careless pilots, and careless pilots are a deep hazard. Therefore, we take every measure we can to destroy them, so they do not present any further hazard to the wider capsuleer community.


I am sorry... but correct me if I am wrong. But are you aware of what is coming from your mouth?

So let me get your logic straight with a small comaprison. If I compare a inattentive pilot within an asteroid field to that of let us say... a drunk within a bar. Now, according to your logic, the only way to prevent any further hazard is to... destroy them.

So, using your logic, to prevent any hazards of my drunken bar-hopper... is to shoot him? Because using your logic, that is about what I would be doing to destroy him.

Common sense, it is not hard to learn. But skill books for them are terribly hard to come by these days huh?
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#84 - 2012-12-26 21:41:37 UTC
Ah, the lure of cheap demagoguery. It never loses its appeal. It appears to be immune to the modernizing forces of education or rational science. Like the sea jelly, it is a creature that hasn’t had to evolve much to thrive.

Should anyone else wish to gain fame through demagoguery, here is a rough guide to the steps:
A) Define an in-group ( the "Us" group). Target individuals who are aggressive, anti-social, or paranoid. But not successful aggressors. They should be relatively unsuccessful and preferably malcontents.

B) Define an out-group ("Them"). The Them will serve as your group’s whipping post. The Them group members should have some characteristic that can be perceived as vile,
Threatening, or simply inferior. Make sure Them is not in fact all that dangerous. Your Us members want a loathsome adversary to beat up on. Not one that might overwhelm them and kill them.

C) Create your propaganda.- Explain in simple terms why Them is foul and hateful and needs eradicating, right now. Don’t get bogged down with facts, proofs, or theoretical explanations. Your target audience will just find logic tedious and boring, in the beginning at least. Just write or speak as if your audience were about primary school fifth-graders, or perhaps viewers of holoreels that have laugh tracks. Keep it colorful and keep it moving and you’ll be fine.
-Use kernels of truth, falsely stated. A kernel of truth can serve as a starting point for a long trek down a bunny trail of half-truths, exaggerations, and flat-out lies.
-Say what your listeners want to hear. The truth can be thrown in for spice, but only if that’s convenient.
-The Plan: This is the crucial part of the propaganda. The whys and wherefores of the doctrine may entertain your potential recruite for a while, but what he really wants to know is, "When do we get started on hurting them?" You must give concrete information on the punishment to be meted out on Them (whether or not the tactical practicalities have been ironed out yet or not).

D) Define yourself as the demagogue. You, and only you, are the visionary. Have portraits taken of you gazing off into your vision. (Your vision is always somewhere above the horizon, so gaze upward). Use making outrageously boastful claims about yourself as a tool. Remember, you’re not looking for followers among the self-confident, reasonably sane people who might scoff at you. You’re looking for followers from among the under-confident looking for an outlet for their aggressions.

E) Form your corps of bootlickers.Every comedian needs a ringer to laugh at his jokes, and every demagogue needs someone to clap for his nonsense. Someone to shout down the hecklers challenging the illogic and plain contrived nonsense of what you’re saying. If you’re talking and no one is speaking up to back you, you’re going nowhere. Sycophants and yes men are typically modest of intellect and talent, but don’t despise them for it. They often make up for it in greed and ambition. Reward them lavishly and hitch them firmly to your wagon. They are the semi-lucid voice of your power-base, the semi-thinking believers.

You see, it's an old and easy recipe, easily followed. It just requires a bit of guts and outrageousness by the demagogue. And a group of bored discontents looking for a whipping post to beat on.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#85 - 2012-12-27 14:42:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Katran Luftschreck
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
Nullsec doesn't come into it.


Of course not, because the nullsec alliances would squash you like insects in a nanosecond.

Meanwhile... as of this morning the bounties on the bumptards in this thread alone is up to 176,200,818 ISK

the sybian: 53,000,000 ISK
LordShazbot: 50,610,001 ISK
Lin Suizei: 44,590,817 ISK
Kainotomiu Ronuken: 15,000,000 ISK
Erika Mayne Bounty: 5,000,000 ISK
TheGunSlinger42: 4,000,000 ISK
M Lamia: 0
Ammit Thoth: 0

The last two disappoint me... but I'm sure someone else will take care of that in no time, now that everyone has been made aware. But again, this is the real reason why nullsec or even lowsec never comes into it. These guys look like pretty juicy targets to those who hunt heads for a living.

Still, none of this compares to James315 himself, who has accrued a bounty of 1,673,407,804 ISK on his head by himself. I take it he doesn't get out much.

Moral of the story: Never annoy people with deep pockets.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#86 - 2012-12-27 15:00:27 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
Nullsec doesn't come into it.


Of course not, because the nullsec alliances would squash you like insects in a nanosecond.

As a matter of fact, we don't worry about nullsec because, as stated earlier, we're perfectly happy with the state of affairs in nullsec. We are not happy with highsec. Therefore, we change highsec.

Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Meanwhile... as of this morning the bounties on the bumptards in this thread alone is up to 176,200,818 ISK

the sybian: 53,000,000 ISK
LordShazbot: 50,610,001 ISK
Lin Suizei: 44,590,817 ISK
Kainotomiu Ronuken: 15,000,000 ISK
Erika Mayne Bounty: 5,000,000 ISK
TheGunSlinger42: 4,000,000 ISK
M Lamia: 0
Ammit Thoth: 0

The last two disappoint me... but I'm sure someone else will take care of that in no time, now that everyone has been made aware. But again, this is the real reason why nullsec or even lowsec never comes into it. These guys look like pretty juicy targets to those who hunt heads for a living.

Still, none of this compares to James315 himself, who has accrued a bounty of 1,673,407,804 ISK on his head by himself. I take it he doesn't get out much.

Moral of the story: Never annoy people with deep pockets.

The thing is that a big number and a WANTED sticker don't mean much. Losses mean something. The bounty does not overcome the Order's invincibility.
Ssakaa
Animatar Foundation
#87 - 2012-12-27 17:03:17 UTC
Khergit Deserters wrote:
Ah, the lure of cheap demagoguery ...


Sir.

Never thought I'd see a thing of such enthralling beauty as your reply, here.

I'll write that again. Enthralling.

Yes.

Sincerely,

A.A., Phrenologist.

"Modern Life is Rubbish"
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#88 - 2012-12-27 19:46:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:

As a matter of fact, we don't worry about nullsec because, as stated earlier, we're perfectly happy with the state of affairs in nullsec. We are not happy with highsec. Therefore, we change highsec.


Sir, would you mind stating again why you are not happy with highsec? The more times I hear the premise of the Manifesto, the happier I feel.

While I have your attention, I would like to report to you some inattentive pilots. If you'll go to the border of high sec, carefully cross through low sec space, and enter null sec sovereignty space, you will find inattentive miners in abundance. Entire fleets of them. I wish to bring this matter to the New Order's attention so it can commence correcting it.
Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#89 - 2012-12-27 19:50:41 UTC
Khergit Deserters wrote:

Sir, would you mind stating again why you are not happy with highsec?

Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
Capsuleers,

Many of you may already have heard of the New Order of High Security Space. Some of you have not. In any case, the Order has yet to be publicly announced in the Intergalactic Summit, so, as an Agent of the Order, I am taking it upon myself to introduce it. Feel free to ask questions; my fellow Agents and I shall do our best to answer them.

What is the New Order?

To put it simply, the New Order is a group of capsuleers who believe in the principles put forth in the New Halaima Code of Conduct, as set down by the Lord and Saviour of Highsec, James 315. The Code, and the Order, transcends corporations, alliances, coalitions and empires. All of lawful New Eden (defined as those systems where Concord operates) falls under our rule.

James 315 and the Agents of the New Order believe that capsuleers everywhere should not focus only on personal profit, but also on doing their best to improve the community of New Eden and to raise the standard of living of your average capsuleer - to become 'good people', if you like. We take the view that many capsuleers could improve themselves simply by being held to a higher standard of conduct. The New Halaima Code of Conduct provides that standard - and the New Order enforces it.

The New Order is, of course, a democratic organisation. The Code was written and agreed to by the entire community of New Highsec. Of course, it would be impractical for tens of thousands of capsuleers to collaborate on one document, so James himself, in his position as elected Savior and Representative of Highsec, acted as a proxy when drafting the Code.

How does the New Order affect you?

If you are already a good and upstanding member of the capsuleer elite, then the New Order will hardly affect you at all - other than in enforcing similar standards for everyone else, which should cause a noticeable improvement in your life as a capsuleer.

If you do not already, then the New Order expects you to follow the values outlined in the [url=http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.htmlNew Halaima Code of Conduct[/url]. In brief, this involves respect for all fellow capsuleers, not engaging in activities to excessiveness - we want well-rounded people in our systems - and keeping your public communication clean and decent. You are required to accept all the lifestyles that a capsuleer might potentially follow, from suicide warfare to joining a militia to upholding the Code itself.

If you are one of the many capsuleers who reside exclusively in low- or null-security space, then the Code is not enforced, as such. However, the New Order still recommends following the Code, as you will find yourself becoming a better person overall and an asset to your community.

How can you aid the New Order?

  • Become an Agent.
    • The most direct way that you can aid the New Order of Highsec is to become an Agent and uphold the Code yourself. This involves everything from forcefully moving the ships of Code-violators to debating the intricacies of the Code with people who are unsure, to performing Concord's duties in destroying criminals themselves. As an Agent, who can expect to travel New Eden, visit all four empires and see multitudes of different types of capsuleers. Ships and ammunition are often subsidised by the New Order, and you can expect to make a profit from the fees taken from violators of the Code.

  • Become a Shareholder.
    • For those of you who have more ISK than time, you too can support the New Order by purchasing shares. Shares cost no more than one million ISK each, and all proceeds go to the Savior of Highsec to support his rule. Shareholders are publicly recognised as contributors to the cause, and are also permitted to take part in Shareholder Votes (one share is equivalent to one vote), which display the truly democratic nature of the Order in voting on tricky interpretations of the Code as well as future New Order policies.


    Thank you. Please feel free to ask any questions that you feel I have not sufficiently answered.
    Khergit Deserters
    Crom's Angels
    #90 - 2012-12-27 19:58:29 UTC
    Sorry, I was editing my post while you posted your response. I was hoping ot hear the rationale of the Manifesto stated in a few plain words, but that's alright. I'll read it again.

    Please note my edited post's matter of the inattentive null sec miners.
    Kainotomiu Ronuken
    koahisquad
    #91 - 2012-12-27 20:04:02 UTC
    Khergit Deserters wrote:
    Sorry, I was editing my post while you posted your response. I was hoping ot hear the rationale of the Manifesto stated in a few plain words, but that's alright. I'll read it again.

    Please note my edited post's matter of the inattentive null sec miners.

    The null sec miners face what we feel to be an adequate amount of danger as a result of mining in nullsec. The highsec miners do not. We aim to correct that.
    Khergit Deserters
    Crom's Angels
    #92 - 2012-12-27 20:19:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
    Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
    Khergit Deserters wrote:
    Sorry, I was editing my post while you posted your response. I was hoping ot hear the rationale of the Manifesto stated in a few plain words, but that's alright. I'll read it again.

    Please note my edited post's matter of the inattentive null sec miners.

    The null sec miners face what we feel to be an adequate amount of danger as a result of mining in nullsec. The highsec miners do not. We aim to correct that.

    I see. So it's not inattentiveness that's the problem. It's inadequate exposure to danger. I would agree that null sec pilots in general face an adequate amount of danger. As compared to New Order pilots who never venture to leave high sec. Perhaps adding some danger via bounties will correct that.
    Kainotomiu Ronuken
    koahisquad
    #93 - 2012-12-27 20:22:02 UTC
    Khergit Deserters wrote:
    I see. I agree that null sec pilots in general face an adequate amount of danger. As compared to New Order pilots who never venture to leave high sec. Perhaps adding some danger via bounties will correct that.

    Feel free to place bounties. Many of our Agents regard them as badges of honour.
    Simon Louvaki
    Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
    #94 - 2012-12-27 20:33:13 UTC
    If this were truly about creating a better society, it wouldn't come at a cost of ISK. The ideal is somewhat noble in a sense, but the fact that you require miners to buy a license from a non-government entity and claim to have jurisdiction over all is off setting. 'Buy my license and obey my rules or face harassment at the hands of my goons' is not the calling card of a righteous cause. Its extortion and racketeering.

    -- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

    --"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb
    Kainotomiu Ronuken
    koahisquad
    #95 - 2012-12-27 20:36:08 UTC
    Simon Louvaki wrote:
    If this were truly about creating a better society, it wouldn't come at a cost of ISK. The ideal is somewhat noble in a sense, but the fact that you require miners to buy a license from a non-government entity and claim to have jurisdiction over all is off setting. 'Buy my license and obey my rules or face harassment at the hands of my goons' is not the calling card of a righteous cause. Its extortion and racketeering.

    The ISK does not represent value to Agents of the New Order (10 million ISK is peanuts to any self-respecting capsuleer) but rather to the miners. By giving up the money, a miner has declared that he has overcome his disproportionate love of cash and is willing to begin a new life as a well-balanced individual.
    Khergit Deserters
    Crom's Angels
    #96 - 2012-12-27 21:06:04 UTC
    Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
    Khergit Deserters wrote:
    I see. I agree that null sec pilots in general face an adequate amount of danger. As compared to New Order pilots who never venture to leave high sec. Perhaps adding some danger via bounties will correct that.

    Feel free to place bounties. Many of our Agents regard them as badges of honour.

    That's good to hear. The bounties no doubt hold your agents to "a higher standard of conduct," which is your leader's purported aspiration for miners.
    But what I fail to see is why we, the public, have to bear the cost of holding your agents to the higher standard?
    Couldn't the glorious James 315 pay for that?
    Or couldn't the agents just voluntarily undertake some danger and hold themselves to a higher standard?
    Simon Louvaki
    Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
    #97 - 2012-12-27 22:06:07 UTC
    Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
    Simon Louvaki wrote:
    If this were truly about creating a better society, it wouldn't come at a cost of ISK. The ideal is somewhat noble in a sense, but the fact that you require miners to buy a license from a non-government entity and claim to have jurisdiction over all is off setting. 'Buy my license and obey my rules or face harassment at the hands of my goons' is not the calling card of a righteous cause. Its extortion and racketeering.

    The ISK does not represent value to Agents of the New Order (10 million ISK is peanuts to any self-respecting capsuleer) but rather to the miners. By giving up the money, a miner has declared that he has overcome his disproportionate love of cash and is willing to begin a new life as a well-balanced individual.


    And who are you to evaluate the worth of coin from one person to another?

    While 10 Million ISK may not be much to you and your ‘peanut’ capsuleers, it could very well be just enough profit to continue doing reputable business, especially for upstart miners. To further that, the money is being taken under threat of duress; there is no willing show of support or change of character, its extortion tipped with the threat of inconvience and death for the capsuleer and the entire crew of their ship. Unfortunately for the hundreds and in the case of larger industrial ships thousands of crew members, they don’t come back in a new body once the ship has been commuted to circuits and metal shards.

    There appears to be little ‘will’ in any of this. Your ‘Code of Honor’ makes it clear while leaving enough loopholes and some not so clear regulations for manipulation at the behest of your 'democratically elected' leader (whom 'elected' himself). Obey our rules or suffer our wrath is your message. Even retaliation against your people is almost practically impossible without incurring the ire of CONCORD or the various shelter corporations your members belong too. It’s a well thought out and protected racket, nothing more and nothing less unfortunately.

    If that weren’t enough, your protection and admiration of those all to willing to sacrifice their ships and crews in suicide runs against unprotected mining/shipping vessels with the expectation of thanks and returned admiration is adhering. The hypocritical tone of the code is mind boggling, especially the bit about persecution through the lens of your bigoted leader.

    I would have more respect, if there even was any to be had for this ‘cause’, if you came out and announced yourselves as you were; pirates, terrorists, extortionists and racketeers’, rather than trying to perpetuate some aura of honor and new world justice.

    -- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

    --"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb
    Khergit Deserters
    Crom's Angels
    #98 - 2012-12-28 03:49:12 UTC
    Ssakaa wrote:
    Khergit Deserters wrote:
    Ah, the lure of cheap demagoguery ...


    Sir.

    Never thought I'd see a thing of such enthralling beauty as your reply, here.

    I'll write that again. Enthralling.

    Yes.

    Sincerely,

    A.A., Phrenologist.

    Madam,
    Thank you sincerely. It's very refreshing to see that discourse above the level of mouth-breathing brutes is still possible in New Eden.
    Katran Luftschreck
    Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
    #99 - 2012-12-29 06:28:29 UTC
    Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
    The ISK does not represent value to Agents of the New Order (10 million ISK is peanuts to any self-respecting capsuleer) but rather to the miners. By giving up the money, a miner has declared that he has overcome his disproportionate love of cash and is willing to begin a new life as a well-balanced individual.


    Oh good grief, I thought the Theology Council got rid of all those Xenu worshiping heretics long ago.

    http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
    Matthias Mecklenburg
    Doomheim
    #100 - 2013-01-03 19:56:50 UTC
    I am afraid that I have arrived late to this summit. Please forgive the intrusion.

    In recent months, I have been hunting criminals (especially killers of auto-piloting pods) in The Citadel and Domain in an effort to relieve the tedium of mining, but now I watch--with great interest--the New Order's attempt to create an overtly criminal organization comprising diffuse individuals, corporations, and alliances in high-sec systems under the very noses of the Empires and CONCORD. Seeing as my comrades are primarily miners and industrialists, I have no interest in supporting the methods of James 315 or his followers; however, I do find entertainment and a modest degree of profit in collecting bounties and legal loot from kills, whole or partial, on the New Order's code enforcement squadrons--and I find no shame in this little hobby.

    Whether one supports or opposes the New Order, all capsuleers need to recognize its existence and its highlighting of complacency among miners in high-sec systems.