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New [scratch] Tiericide the T1 Battlecruisers.

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Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#121 - 2011-10-19 18:44:34 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
uglybass wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I don't know which is better for a Drake.For a Cyclone, t

Base Armour Damage - 172.8



, eg. drake with kine)

...


I'm not sure what you are getting at...? You realize sleeper armor is omni-tanked yes? You can fire whatever missiles you want from a Cyclone, they will do the same damage.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#122 - 2011-10-19 22:26:38 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:


I'm not sure what you are getting at...? You realize sleeper armor is omni-tanked yes? You can fire whatever missiles you want from a Cyclone, they will do the same damage.

I understand that.

I am getting at the points which he didn't read.

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Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#123 - 2011-10-20 05:11:08 UTC
I think this entire topic is completely undermined by the fact that the topic author never actually bothered to look at the ship bonuses of the drake. It is truely painful to see that she tries to draw comparisons between the drake and the cyclone, a tier 1 battlecruiser to a tier 2 battlecruiser, with the drake having in some instances, propulsion mods (At which point said drake pilot should just fit warp core stabs and call it a day), but more importantly, unbonused weapons.

Please please please PLEASE do a tiny bit of reading next time, before starting a balance topic, on the ship that you are claiming needs a balance. Any drake comparison worth reading will have Kinetic missiles loaded, and ONLY kinetic missiles loaded, for the sake of damage comparisons versus sleepers, as there is no bonus to using EM, and in fact, there are penalties (in terms of 5% per level) to using anything but kinetic. Also, noone is going to throw a dread guristas invul on a drake. You claim that your dread gurista's active tank drake is still cheaper than a tengu; it isnt. A tengu can do a better job in almost all regards, in the situation listed, for cheaper, by a few hundred million.


Learn the drakes tier
Learn the drakes missile bonus
Revise any fittings with active tank, over 200mil in mods, or lowslot propulsion mods.
Retry arguement.
Berendas
Ascendant Operations
#124 - 2011-10-20 07:38:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Berendas
The Drake is overpowered. The sheer amount of EHP/ shield regen it can get while still maintaining strong dps and excellent range completely outclasses all other BC's in terms of tank/damage. Add in the fact that it's shield tanked and that makes it faster than armor BC's. Just go out to low sec and see, half the ships you'll run into are Drakes because they completely dominate small gang warfare.

-- I know that this was a thread started with discussion on the Drakes PVE applications (where it is still far and away better than all other BC's) but the same things that make it OP there make it OP in PVP. The tank, the damage, the range, all with little to nothing sacrificed.


The Drake needs a nerf, the current state of Drakes Online makes this pretty clear. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise is in denial and doesn't want to lose their solopwnmobile. I try not to make such heavy handed statements regarding ship balance but the numbers don't lie.
Laechyd Eldgorn
Avanto
Hole Control
#125 - 2011-10-20 08:08:55 UTC
Berendas wrote:
The Drake is overpowered. The sheer amount of EHP/ shield regen it can get while still maintaining strong dps and excellent range completely outclasses all other BC's in terms of tank/damage. Add in the fact that it's shield tanked and that makes it faster than armor BC's. Just go out to low sec and see, half the ships you'll run into are Drakes because they completely dominate small gang warfare.

-- I know that this was a thread started with discussion on the Drakes PVE applications (where it is still far and away better than all other BC's) but the same things that make it OP there make it OP in PVP. The tank, the damage, the range, all with little to nothing sacrificed.


The Drake needs a nerf, the current state of Drakes Online makes this pretty clear. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise is in denial and doesn't want to lose their solopwnmobile. I try not to make such heavy handed statements regarding ship balance but the numbers don't lie.


i dont know what trolling numbers you use but you failed at the point you called drake solopwnmobile :D
Auracon
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#126 - 2011-10-20 08:24:56 UTC
Drakes are a nice ship for small fleets, but so are canes, harbys, and myrms. In general the BC line is is well thought out and balanced. Moreover, each BC is unique and does not duplicate with other BCs. Each also takes a unique set of skills to really shine.

Drakes have:
range
high ehp
possibly more mobility than armor BCs

but lack:
diverse damage types
DPS!
really high mobility or good active tanks

If you want to balance something, try looking at ECM, supercaps and less viable ships (retribution, eagle, and ashimmu spring to mind).
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#127 - 2011-10-20 08:53:52 UTC
Berendas wrote:
The Drake needs a nerf, the current state of Drakes Online makes this pretty clear.


Hurricanes are more popular than Drakes by virtually every measure.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#128 - 2011-10-20 16:45:12 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
Blah


PLEASE, please, please read the thread. Even the just the original post a little.

Tier 2 are hardly ever used. I am no longer saying nerf the Drake but buff them. They are *battle* cruisers.

Mfume Apocal wrote:
Berendas wrote:
The Drake needs a nerf, the current state of Drakes Online makes this pretty clear.


Hurricanes are more popular than Drakes by virtually every measure.


Except for the PVE measure, half the game ... which you have no stats for?

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Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#129 - 2011-10-20 17:49:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Mfume Apocal
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Except for the PVE measure, half the game ... which you have no stats for?


No BC is actually good at PvE, either they're tank is too weak (Harb, Cane) or their practical DPS too low (Drake, Myrm) to the point where you'd be better off in a under-skilled BS than a competently fit and flown BC. But I suppose if your purpose while PvEing isn't to make actual isk, but to sit there tanking rats solo, Drakes are pretty OP.

If you want to talk about OP (as in making a disproportionate amount of isk for SP and isk invested) ships for PvE, look at the Tengu chain-farming C6s, sanctums, etc.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#130 - 2011-10-20 17:53:26 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
... I suppose if your purpose while PvEing isn't to make actual isk, but to sit there tanking rats solo, Drakes are pretty OP.
...


Drakes are your little Tengu. Corp member made 400M last night doing a C3 in a Drake.

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Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
#131 - 2011-10-21 09:22:48 UTC
Quote:
Try taking that drake into a C3 or up and see just how far you get......

Actually drakes can solo C3's, slowly.

Drakes are probably a bit too much "bang for the buck" both in pvp and in pve. That said your a lot better off in a BS or SC for running C2-C4 why would you waste an account on a drake?
Kitt JT
True North.
#132 - 2011-10-23 23:16:48 UTC
I fly all the caldari boats with good skills. The drake is not overpowered. Yes, it is a very versatile ship, but it has drawbacks.
The drake can:
Fit decent dps (about 450 with HML's, 550 with HAMS, no drones both cases) AND, Fit a good buffer tank (about 100k ehp).
Fit **** dps (about 250 with HML's) AND a great passive regen tank.

But it has inherent drawbacks.
For pvp, it is a shield tanker. Shield tank means you must sacrifice tank for versatility (prop mods, ewar, etc.)
It uses missiles! This is still a major drawback for all missile boats for pvp. At anything over 30 km or so, you start to land 1 volley to every 2-3 or even 4 volleys of a turret ship.
Its slow as hell.

For pve, you can either fit your awesome passive tank, or fit damage mods. Since pve revolves around killing the most stuff in the least time, this obviously sucks. It means you can't take advantage of EITHER your full damage OR your full tank without either other ships, or compromising one severely.

The drake is incredibly well balanced. It is an excellent counterpart (or counterpoint) to the hurricane (as caldari and minmatar are arguably the best races for cruiser size pvp). The harbi isn't terrible, but don't forget that amarr dominate the battleship realm of pvp. The myrm is good if used right, but also keep in mind the gallente have a firm hold over capital pvp, and are very good contenders for being superior at frigate sized pvp as well.

The hybrid and assault ship ballance this winter will level the playing field a little, but as it stands, it's pretty well balanced. Balancing through diversity is better than balancing through uniformity.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#133 - 2011-10-24 00:35:13 UTC
Kitt JT wrote:

For pve, ...


... resist tank + damage mods.

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Amaldor Themodius
TUR3O
#134 - 2011-10-24 04:52:26 UTC
Drake does not need a nerf.. its a good vessel to be sure but its one of the few caladri ships that are worth flying.. let them have a great performer in the Drake they need something..
bloodlust priest
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#135 - 2011-10-24 12:32:24 UTC
Amaldor Themodius wrote:
Drake does not need a nerf.. its a good vessel to be sure but its one of the few caladri ships that are worth flying.. let them have a great performer in the Drake they need something..


the argument that its caldaris only good ship is a reason to buff caldari, i would love to fly the cerb again but too many caldari ships are just too niche or just bad. the drake is too powerful for a battlecruiser and needs a nerf
Aesiron
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#136 - 2011-10-24 13:54:26 UTC
Berendas wrote:
The Drake is overpowered. The sheer amount of EHP/ shield regen it can get while still maintaining strong dps and excellent range completely outclasses all other BC's in terms of tank/damage. Add in the fact that it's shield tanked and that makes it faster than armor BC's. Just go out to low sec and see, half the ships you'll run into are Drakes because they completely dominate small gang warfare.

-- I know that this was a thread started with discussion on the Drakes PVE applications (where it is still far and away better than all other BC's) but the same things that make it OP there make it OP in PVP. The tank, the damage, the range, all with little to nothing sacrificed.


The Drake needs a nerf, the current state of Drakes Online makes this pretty clear. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise is in denial and doesn't want to lose their solopwnmobile. I try not to make such heavy handed statements regarding ship balance but the numbers don't lie.


No the Drake isn't overpowered since it's DPS is awful.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#137 - 2011-10-24 14:07:41 UTC
Berendas wrote:
The Drake is overpowered. The sheer amount of EHP/ shield regen it can get while still maintaining strong dps and excellent range completely outclasses all other BC's in terms of tank/damage. Add in the fact that it's shield tanked and that makes it faster than armor BC's. Just go out to low sec and see, half the ships you'll run into are Drakes...


...and the other half are Hurricanes.

Nerf all tier 2 BCs.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#138 - 2011-10-24 14:25:08 UTC
Aesiron wrote:

No the Drake isn't overpowered since it's DPS is awful.

Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:


I don't fly a Drake myself but with an all T2 set up and some cheap implants - resistance tanking, I make a fit with two Ballistic Controls T2, 7x Heavy Launchers T2
64 541 eHP
225 sustained, 522 re-enforced defences per second
548 DPS (not over heated) 2845 per volley

Having no faction mods and being a T1 ship for that little ISK - is there any ship with that much tank and DPS?

Gypsio III wrote:


...and the other half are Hurricanes.

Nerf all tier 2 BCs.


Buff Tier 1 battle cruisers. Remove all the triers actually, let us just have Tech 1, 2 and 3.

Make the normal cruisers better for their designed purposes. They are cruisers. Not *battle* cruisers.

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JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#139 - 2011-10-24 14:54:39 UTC
I don't feel that the drake needs to be Nerfed, honestly it is a little overrated. The passive fit works for every tier II BC pretty much (I don't fly Amaar). Myrm gets comprable tank and slightly better DPS. 'Cane (so long as you are willing to trade some SPRs for Gyros) comes out with less tank and a lot more DPS. Nothing against the Drake, flying one right now. FOFs 'cause guristas are broken. My real concern with the new BCs is that they could make a lot of BSs completely obsolete. I heard they are going to up the gun size. Unless they change the re-charge on shields for class what we will end up with is passive pocket BS's. Which honestly would make the game a little less interesting not more.

90% of of the time my posts are about something I actually find interesting and want to learn more about. Do not be alarmed.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#140 - 2011-10-26 00:56:18 UTC
*Bump*

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EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.